Summer of Football thread: Euro 2020(1), Copa America, CONCACAF Gold Cup

[Zinneke]

heartbreak for switzerland. I could barely get through that and now I have to face Belgium-Italy.

[Zinneke]

Fuçking italian wankstains simulating and diving all over the place. Hope England smash them.

[Zinneke]

Ive recovered from the anger. For me Martinez was hamstrung by his lack of bench but he still could have used it better. Carasco was unlucky to start. I would have put him with Doku and then put THorgan on the other wing instead of the imposter Meunier or have thorgan and meunier with de bruyne in midfield with witsel.

Italy very strong in the press, so you need for me someone in the back three who can pierce it. all 3 of them are passed it. Need to get Zinho Vanheusden and maybe Bornauw into the side and playing regularly with each other.

Happy with Doku, Lukaku looked tired but that's understandable. He still looked dangerous.

[Zinneke]

Fuçking italian wankstains simulating and diving all over the place.

Still, doesn't it cheer you to see the old ways maintained?

Well, between this and the Dutch back in international tournaments? Not really no.

[Zinneke]

Arguably the best collection of attacking players on the planet, and England played with 7 defensive outfield players most of the match. All that needs to be said, really.

Meh, you win major tournaments with good defenses. France in 2018 were a boring side despite having Mbappe and Griezmann. I don't blame Southgate for being conservative.

Why Saka was the fifth penalty taker though?

Italy...just a textbook performance by the centre-back pairing. Mourinho once said that Bonucci and Chiellini could write a phd for Harvard on defending. he is dead right.

Congrats to a young Italian side and an Italy tha, like many, has suffered a lot this year. In the end apart from the last 16 minutes against us they did play good football through the tournament and tenacity in key moments. Spain were really the only team to genuinely outplay them but they had the human cheatcode that is Busquets.

[Zinneke]

Italians in Brussels and all over who haven't set a foot in a football stadium before waxing lyrical about how England supporters are shameful and the "good guys won". Do they remember the countless times there have been stabbings or moped attacks or racist chanting in their stadiums? And how when Feyernoord rioted in Rome, "England style", because two of their supporters were stabbed and in an ICU, and broke a piece of some ancient statue the Italian press cried and started calling the Dutch "barbarians" and "sub-humans" in their press? Hardly ones to talk. I mean, there is a reason other European teams fear a trip to Italy more than to the UK

There does seem to be something particular about the England football team that brings out the angriest, most resentful, most unpleasant side of English nationalism.

Like, I remember going to the Champions League final in Kiev in 2018 and the Liverpool fans were absolutely brilliant. Like amazing fun, super friendly, created probably the best atmosphere I have ever experienced at any football event. So its not like it's a problem withe English football culture in itself. There's just a side that seems to come out when it is specifically England who are playing

Liverpool fans don't tend to follow England the way other clubs do. In terms of organised support, etc.

Also Adrian Durham seems like a terrible journalist but he made a valid point : the biggest issue is how coked up some of the lad culture in Britain gets. The boozing obviously also helps, the "culture" too. But on average Brits drink less than French and Spanish people, but in far more constrained, coked up environments.

Another thing is how loudly England supporters make their present felt, including the hooligan element. So they'll take over a square and riot because its this sort of way of claiming their territory "over land and sea". The hooligan culture in literally every other European country (save maybe Scotland and the Netherlands) tends to try to stay discrete and organize raids/fights on enemy pubs. It might be because jail in the UK is less worrying than jail in the Ukraine, but a Ukrainian bunch for example would not get itself arrested or publicly show off. Its a strange thing.

[Zinneke]

There does seem to be something particular about the England football team that brings out the angriest, most resentful, most unpleasant side of English nationalism.

Like, I remember going to the Champions League final in Kiev in 2018 and the Liverpool fans were absolutely brilliant. Like amazing fun, super friendly, created probably the best atmosphere I have ever experienced at any football event. So its not like it's a problem withe English football culture in itself. There's just a side that seems to come out when it is specifically England who are playing

Yes, because a lot of the so-called football hooligans aren't big fans of club football or even football at all.

there's probably a phenomenon of football clubs issuing stadium bans and England tickets being easier to access so more hools there but I imagine the main reason we hear more about them at England games is that more first time goers show up and are surprised by the events. Add to that the scale being bigger.

How many kids, cameras, journos turn up to Leeds vs Millwall though? If they played a cup final at Wembley there would be similar headlines.

[Zinneke]

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Italians in Brussels and all over who haven't set a foot in a football stadium before waxing lyrical about how England supporters are shameful and the "good guys won". Do they remember the countless times there have been stabbings or moped attacks or racist chanting in their stadiums? And how when Feyernoord rioted in Rome, "England style", because two of their supporters were stabbed and in an ICU, and broke a piece of some ancient statue the Italian press cried and started calling the Dutch "barbarians" and "sub-humans" in their press? Hardly ones to talk. I mean, there is a reason other European teams fear a trip to Italy more than to the UK

To be fair, I think you could excuse Italians in Brussels specifically for remembering better this incident. Also, are you using the Feyenoord riots in Rome that ruined the Barcaccia fountain in 2015 as a point against Italians? Uhm... okay. Now of course, Italian supporters are hardly "good guys" in a general sense.

What I'm saying is, is that the brand of hooligan that caused Heysel has fundementally changed in the UK, whereas that brand still exists, albeit more discrete in Italy.

And...yeah...you realise Feyernoord rioted because of a) Italian police overreacting to their presence in Rome city center and b) two Feyernoord fans in ICU stabbed up the arse. And how did the Italian media react? "Olandesi barbari"...It's the hypocrisy that gets me.