New Russia-Ukraine tensions

[Zinneke]

Honestly, would Ukraine just be better off giving up their claims to the Donbass & Crimea; I realize it would set a terrible precedent to allow Russian aggression to succeed,

That should pretty much end the debate right there, given you know, the History behind it all.

but I just don't see any realistic way for Ukraine to successfully reintegrate these territories,

I do : regime change in Russia. Its not realistic in the very short term, but it is possible. Another realistic scenario : Russia's current elite realises it is going to be much more humiliated partnering with China that it would be with the West. In exchange for respecting democratic norms, it is guarenteed a certain stability.

certainly not at an acceptable cost. And from what I gather, the people in these regions largely want to align with Russia, any way.

Crimea, possibly. But then, the people in Crimea are colonists. That doesn't mean they are not entitled to self-determination. But so are Crimean Tatars. Should Crimean Tatars be subject to collective rights abuse because russophones were (allegedly) suffering collective rights abuse under a Ukrainian regime.

Donbass - very debatable. Pro-Russia doesn't mean wanting to be annexed to Russia. But Putin's conception of Russia is now clearly imperalist.

Perhaps the best solution is some sort of legally recognizable referendum monitored by the international community being held here.

If it were the best solution, why did Putin fast track the Crimean referendum. Why didn't let a campaign form up?


The best solution right now is to end NS pipeline, end our reliance on Russian gas, and cut the oligarchs legs off that control the Russian elite. The last obstacle would be the military-industrial complex there, but if they want to lose their marbles and carry on a hot war, it will be a much bigger humiliation that the end of the Cold War.

[Zinneke]

The best solution right now is to end NS pipeline, end our reliance on Russian gas, and cut the oligarchs legs off that control the Russian elite. The last obstacle would be the military-industrial complex there, but if they want to lose their marbles and carry on a hot war, it will be a much bigger humiliation that the end of the Cold War.

Russian gas is 2x cheaper than American LNG (and not to mention much cleaner), so no, I want the money staying in the pockets of European citizens.

Once America stops buying Saudi oil and supplying them with weapons, we can talk about switching over to a more expensive Gas alternative just to "stick it to the Russians".

lmfao at the idea that the Saudis are a geopolitical threat compared to Russia.
You care more about a small hit to an EU citizen's buying power than people's countries getting legit invaded not far from you. Just like every collaborator of dictators you just think its to everyone else until, woah suddenly, despite all the signs, it happens to affect you.


I guess its typical Austrian right-winger with putin's member in their mouths rhetoric. Its easy to opt out of NATO when you are surrounded by NATO members. At least the Swedes and Swiss use their soft power to actually defuse situations rather than just playing both sides acting smart.  

Have fun in Ibiza!

[Zinneke]

The best solution right now is to end NS pipeline, end our reliance on Russian gas, and cut the oligarchs legs off that control the Russian elite. The last obstacle would be the military-industrial complex there, but if they want to lose their marbles and carry on a hot war, it will be a much bigger humiliation that the end of the Cold War.

Russian gas is 2x cheaper than American LNG (and not to mention much cleaner), so no, I want the money staying in the pockets of European citizens.

Once America stops buying Saudi oil and supplying them with weapons, we can talk about switching over to a more expensive Gas alternative just to "stick it to the Russians".

lmfao at the idea that the Saudis are a geopolitical threat compared to Russia.
You care more about a small hit to an EU citizen's buying power than people's countries getting legit invaded not far from you. Just like every collaborator of dictators you just think its to everyone else until, woah suddenly, despite all the signs, it happens to affect you.


I guess its typical Austrian right-winger with putin's member in their mouths rhetoric. Its easy to opt out of NATO when you are surrounded by NATO members. At least the Swedes and Swiss use their soft power to actually defuse situations rather than just playing both sides acting smart.  

Have fun in Ibiza!

If you think Russia would at any point invade a Bloc with a population of 450 Million, you're extremely delusional.

I think if we continue to ignore their imperialism, we are just as delusional.

Lastly, yes, I do support neutrality as long as our own (EU members) are not being threatened or attacked. Only exceptions would include things like attempts at ethnic cleansing or actions against terror organizations.

Speaking of ethnic cleansing, what are your thoughts on Crimean Tatars?

No regime changes and no foreign interventions, barring the mentioned exceptions.

I actually agree with you on this. I also think NATO overstretched when the cold war was over, and should have always remained a defensive alliance, but contrary to you I don't think Russia is entitled to annex its neighbours because of some sphere of influence or whatever. I actually believe in self-determination. If Hungary wants to join China-Russia block, so be it. But we isolate them and they receive support from the two.

And the supposed enlightened Europeans accuse Americans of being obsessed with cheap oil, yet you aren't willing to stand with fellow democracies against imperialism if it increases your gas price. So much for America being the most self interested assholes in the world. Ofc, that's going to be harder to sell people om without Trump. Imo Biden is proving himself to be a better leader than nearly all of Europe's.

Either we are both self-interested a**holes, or we both give it up.

If you don't think it's hypocritical of the US to criticize and sanction Europe over NS 2 while still doing business with an equally terrible regime (that's actively bombing civilians with your own weapons in Yemen, no less), I don't know what to tell you.

I would honestly love it if we could both go the moral route, but sadly that isn't possible at the moment.

Again, where is Saudi Arabia a threat to our (the EU) borders the same way Russia is? I also agree that whats happening in Yemen is absolutely scandalous, but from a realist IR perspective, to equate our relationship with the Saudis to that of Russia is flawed. SA is 100% a destabilising regime but in its own region. Russia is a destabilising force in ours and projects its power globally. It has to be discouraged from further Crimea 2014 episodes.