Afghan government collapse. (user search)
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  Afghan government collapse. (search mode)
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Question: Will the Afghani people be worse or better off with the US leaving ?
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Author Topic: Afghan government collapse.  (Read 29237 times)
Mr. Morden
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« on: August 15, 2021, 02:44:15 PM »

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/countries-should-not-recognise-taliban-afghan-government-says-uks-johnson-2021-08-15/

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Nobody should bilaterally recognise the Taliban as the government of Afghanistan, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Sunday, adding it was clear that there would be a new administration in the country very shortly.

"We don't want anybody bilaterally recognising the Taliban," Johnson said in an interview clip, urging the West to work together on Afghanistan through mechanisms such as the United Nations and NATO.

"We want a united position amongst all the like-minded as far as we can get one so that we do whatever we can to prevent Afghanistan lapsing back into being a breeding ground for terror."
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2021, 03:03:54 PM »

The best way to avoid Afghanistan ‘lapsing back into a breeding ground for terror’ would be to recognise the new government.

It sounds like Johnson is saying that there isn't really a "new government" yet, as such, and that the international community can maximize what little leverage it has by holding off on recognizing a new government until we see what shape such a government will have.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2021, 03:54:25 PM »


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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2021, 05:18:44 PM »

What is the plan to get Afghan refugees out of Kabul now that the Taliban has effectively taken over?

Well...


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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2021, 12:11:38 AM »


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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2021, 01:59:12 PM »

One of the more damning parts only just being revealed is how bad the intelligence was- you’d hope that if the US/UK/Germany etc had known how quickly it would unravel they’d have seriously scaled up the process to get people out of the country.

I've seen several stories in which it was reported that the intelligence wasn't bad.  It was just that political leadership didn't believe it.  E.g.:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/afghanistans-collapse-us-intelligence-wrong/story?id=79470553

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But numerous U.S. officials tell ABC News that the opposite was true, insisting that key intelligence assessments had consistently informed policymakers that the Taliban could overwhelm the country and take the capital within weeks -- essentially repeating the 1975 fall of Saigon, when helicopters hastily evacuated diplomats from the U.S. embassy's rooftop as the North Vietnamese Army stormed into the South Vietnam capital.
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"[U.S.] leaders were told by the military it would take no time at all for the Taliban to take everything," an anonymous U.S. intelligence official told ABC News. "No one listened."
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"The intelligence community assessment has always been accurate; they just disregarded it," [a senior congressional] official told ABC News, speaking about the Biden administration.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2021, 12:01:05 AM »

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/at-the-pentagon-us-military-officials-bitter-as-they-watch-chaos-in-kabul/ar-AANouoi

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Biden decided in mid-April that all US troops must be out of Afghanistan by September 11, though he later moved that date up to August 21.
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As soon as Biden announced the withdrawal, the Pentagon said it was making preparations for a mass evacuation.

But by mid-June the administration still did not consider an evacuation necessary and favored the granting of special visas -- a process that can take up to two years. 

It was only at the end of June that the White House raised the possibility of evacuating the Afghan interpreters before the end of the military withdrawal, and asked for the Pentagon's help.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2021, 03:38:07 PM »

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/17/taliban-pledged-safe-passage-of-civilians-to-kabul-airport-white-house-says.html

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Newly empowered Taliban militants have informed the U.S. that they are prepared to provide safe passage for civilians attempting to flee Afghanistan through Kabul’s international airport, the White House said Tuesday.

“We intend to hold them to that commitment,” national security advisor Jake Sullivan told reporters amid a barrage of questions about the Biden administration’s handling of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, which was plunged into chaos as the Islamist insurgents quickly ousted its Western-backed government.

Sullivan also said the “chaotic” situation in the Afghan capital makes it premature to speculate about whether the Taliban could form a government the U.S. would recognize.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2021, 02:00:15 PM »

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/at-the-pentagon-us-military-officials-bitter-as-they-watch-chaos-in-kabul/ar-AANouoi

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Biden decided in mid-April that all US troops must be out of Afghanistan by September 11, though he later moved that date up to August 21.
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As soon as Biden announced the withdrawal, the Pentagon said it was making preparations for a mass evacuation.

But by mid-June the administration still did not consider an evacuation necessary and favored the granting of special visas -- a process that can take up to two years. 

It was only at the end of June that the White House raised the possibility of evacuating the Afghan interpreters before the end of the military withdrawal, and asked for the Pentagon's help.


More on this fiasco here:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/17/biden-afghan-evacuation-505590

Quote
And in late July, two weeks before the Taliban captured their first provincial capital, a coalition of groups that work with special visa applicants wrote multiple emails to the State Department’s Afghanistan Task Force offering their assistance. Those emails were never returned.

These instances, detailed to POLITICO by five U.S. officials and people familiar with the situation, are indicative of how the administration wasted precious time and failed to prepare to evacuate thousands in danger as the Taliban plotted their comeback. Flaws in the planning and execution of the withdrawal have led to wrenching scenes of Afghans clinging to U.S. military cargo planes as they race out of Hamid Karzai International Airport in Kabul, where President Joe Biden has dispatched up to 7,000 troops to handle the chaos.
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“They were sitting on their hands,” said a congressional aide who, like others, spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss internal matters. “They only started surging three to four weeks ago.” In fact, it was only on Saturday that the State Department task force approached those same activist organizations and sought their help to fill out a list with names of people needing relocation.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2021, 06:28:18 PM »


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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2021, 11:24:25 PM »

More on the botched evacuation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/19/us/politics/afghanistan-visas-refugees.html

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Officials also echoed refugee advocates, who accused the State Department of having been caught flat-footed in processing the special immigrant visas for Afghans — even though President Biden announced in April that the American military would be leaving by the anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that led to the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.

“There are tens of thousands of Americans and Afghans literally at the gate,” said Sunil Varghese, the policy director for the International Refugee Assistance Project. “This could have been completely avoided if evacuation was part of the military withdrawal. This was avoidable, and we’re at the 11th hour now.”
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Representative Tom Malinowski, Democrat of New Jersey, said even Afghans who had been vetted and told to come to the airport were unable to get past U.S. troops at the airport’s gate. He called it “inexcusable” that the State Department and Pentagon were not coordinating better to ensure “that whoever the U.S. government invites will be recognized and allowed in by people at the gates who know what they’re doing.”
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2021, 02:42:51 PM »


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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2021, 02:34:11 AM »

https://news.yahoo.com/us-seeks-boost-afghan-airlift-041641398.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

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Western security forces were involved in an exchange of fire with unidentified gunmen Monday at Kabul airport, as US President Joe Biden sought to speed up the chaotic evacuation of tens of thousands of people from Taliban-controlled Afghanistan.

One Afghan was killed and three others were injured in a dawn firefight that according to the German military erupted between Afghan guards and unknown assailants.

German and American troops "participated in further exchange of fire", the German army said in a statement.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2021, 06:03:02 PM »

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/24/politics/first-us-troops-leaving-afghanistan/index.html

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The first US troops have started leaving Afghanistan, on the same day President Joe Biden decided not to extend the August 31 evacuation deadline, two defense officials told CNN.

"So far, the reduction does not affect the mission," one of the officials said, adding that the commander on the ground can decide what military personnel are in units that are no longer required. That decision can be based on a few factors, including the number of gates open at the airport, the number of people coming through and more.

"If you can have a smaller mission set and still conduct the mission, then you can reduce your footprint and reduce your risk," the official said.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2021, 01:43:25 PM »

The Taliban claims there’s no evidence that al Qaeda was behind 9/11:

https://www.newsweek.com/excuse-war-taliban-no-evidence-osama-bin-laden-was-behind-9-11-1623233

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Zabihullah Mujahid made the claim during an interview with NBC Nightly News on Wednesday as the August 31 deadline for the final withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan approaches.
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"Although there was no proof [bin Laden] was involved, now we have given promises that Afghan soil won't be used against anyone," he said.

"There is no evidence. Even after 20 years of war, we have no proof he was involved," Mujahid added.

NBC's Richard Engel pressed Mujahid about the matter, asking: "So it sounds like, even now, after all this, you're accepting no responsibility?"

"There was no justification for this war, it was excuse for war," he said.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2021, 11:26:49 PM »

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/macron-says-france-britain-propose-kabul-safe-zone-2021-08-28/

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France and Britain will submit a resolution to an emergency United Nations meeting due Monday on Afghanistan proposing a safe zone in Kabul to try and protect people trying to leave the country, French President Emmanuel Macron said on Sunday.

"Our resolution proposal aims to define a safe zone in Kabul, under U.N. control, which would allow humanitarian operations to continue," Macron told French newspaper Le Journal du Dimanche (JDD) in an interview published on Sunday.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2021, 12:39:09 PM »

New US airstrike against IS:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/29/us-drone-strikes-an-isis-k-vehicle-packed-with-explosives-in-kabul.html

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The United States carried out a military strike on Sunday against an ISIS-K target in Kabul, a development that comes in the final days of an immense humanitarian evacuation mission.

“U.S. military forces conducted a self-defense unmanned over-the-horizon airstrike today on a vehicle in Kabul, eliminating an imminent ISIS-K threat to Hamad Karzai International airport,” U.S. Central Command spokesman Navy Capt. Bill Urban wrote in a statement.

“We are confident we successfully hit the target. Significant secondary explosions from the vehicle indicated the presence of a substantial amount of explosive material,” he added.

There were no known civilian casualties following the strike.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2021, 04:10:14 PM »

The US has left the airport:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/30/afghanistan-update-last-us-troops-leave-kabul-ending-evacuation.html

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The United States finished its withdrawal efforts from Kabul’s airport, the Pentagon said Monday, effectively ending a 20-year conflict that began not long after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The last C-17 military cargo aircraft departed Hamid Karzai International Airport Monday afternoon, according to U.S. Marine Corps General Kenneth McKenzie, commander of U.S. Central Command, completing a massive evacuation effort that flew more than 116,000 people out of Afghanistan over the past two weeks.

“While the military evacuation is complete, the diplomatic mission to ensure additional U.S. citizens and eligible Afghans who want to leave continues,” added McKenzie, who oversees the U.S. military mission in the region.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2021, 03:25:29 PM »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58455959

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A US lawmaker has accused the Taliban of stopping Afghans and Americans from leaving Afghanistan via Mazar-i-Sharif International Airport.

Republican House member Michael McCaul said on Sunday that planes had been trying to leave the airport "for the last couple of days".

An NGO confirmed to the BBC that it had people waiting to board one of the flights.

The Taliban has denied the claims, labelling them as propaganda.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2021, 08:07:27 PM »

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/06/politics/four-us-citizens-afghanistan-departure/index.html

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The United States facilitated the departure of four American citizens from Afghanistan via an overland route to a third country, a senior State Department official said Monday.

"Our Embassy greeted the Americans as they crossed the border into the third country," the official told CNN.

The official confirmed that these are the first four Americans that "we've facilitated in this manner" since the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan. They are a woman and her three children from Amarillo, Texas, according to Rep. Markwayne Mullin, an Oklahoma Republican, who has been assisting an American non profit-funded group of former special forces, military, contractors and others who are working to get Americans and Special Immigrant Visa holders out of Afghanistan.
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