11 year old rape victim forced to carry to term thanks to Ohio law.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Or: innocent child allowed to live their life thanks to Ohio law.

Are you willing to pay more tax to support that child, since an 11 year old mother obviously cannot?

By this logic we shouldn't have any laws at all.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Wait a minute, I thought laws didn't affect the abortion rate?  I was told that the pro-choice side wants abortion to decrease as well, but they just have different methods of doing it?  Shouldn't they be celebrating, too?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Damn, I hope she can get an abortion. Absolutely disgusting.

But, but, nobody likes abortion!

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Are you seriously telling me you would force your 11 year old daughter to carry a baby to term?

Yes. Some of us have morals.

That's what fundamentalist Muslims in Podunk Africa would say to justify female genital mutilation.

You people are no less barbaric than they are.

Murdering babies is barbaric.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Damn, I hope she can get an abortion. Absolutely disgusting.

But, but, nobody likes abortion!

I am so very smart, he thought to himself as he typed his latest brilliant retort, nearly unable to contain his giddiness at the thought of a traumatized 11 year old rape victim facing permanent disability and possible death as she’s forced to give birth to a likely-unviable fetus with severe health complications. I’m the complete package. Unending compassion, a paragon of morality and virtue, and the most brilliant mind of this generation.

Obviously what she is going through is horrible, but the baby shouldn't be murdered for the crimes of the father.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Are you seriously telling me you would force your 11 year old daughter to carry a baby to term?

Yes. Some of us have morals.

That's what fundamentalist Muslims in Podunk Africa would say to justify female genital mutilation.

You people are no less barbaric than they are.

Murdering babies is barbaric.

How about murdering eleven-year-olds?

No one is advocating that.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Are you seriously telling me you would force your 11 year old daughter to carry a baby to term?

Yes. Some of us have morals.

That's what fundamentalist Muslims in Podunk Africa would say to justify female genital mutilation.

You people are no less barbaric than they are.

Murdering babies is barbaric.

How about murdering eleven-year-olds?

No one is advocating that.

There's a really easy solution to this - stop considering fetuses (and/or earlier stages) that aren't far along enough to have any chance of surviving outside the womb to be "babies." That's a personal, conscious choice you've made and think that everyone else should be bound by.

Why are they not babies?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Damn, I hope she can get an abortion. Absolutely disgusting.

But, but, nobody likes abortion!

I am so very smart, he thought to himself as he typed his latest brilliant retort, nearly unable to contain his giddiness at the thought of a traumatized 11 year old rape victim facing permanent disability and possible death as she’s forced to give birth to a likely-unviable fetus with severe health complications. I’m the complete package. Unending compassion, a paragon of morality and virtue, and the most brilliant mind of this generation.

Obviously what she is going through is horrible, but the baby shouldn't be murdered for the crimes of the father.

Would you be so cavalier if someone in your family or a friend was in such a position?

Yes, as long as the pregnancy wasn't going to kill them.  And I would be willing to give most of my money if that was required for the child to live.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Are you seriously telling me you would force your 11 year old daughter to carry a baby to term?

Yes. Some of us have morals.

That's what fundamentalist Muslims in Podunk Africa would say to justify female genital mutilation.

You people are no less barbaric than they are.

Murdering babies is barbaric.

How about murdering eleven-year-olds?

No one is advocating that.

There's a really easy solution to this - stop considering fetuses (and/or earlier stages) that aren't far along enough to have any chance of surviving outside the womb to be "babies." That's a personal, conscious choice you've made and think that everyone else should be bound by.

Why are they not babies?

1) We don't have funerals when a girlfriend gets knocked up, because premarital sex is OK but somehow contraception isn't. Go figure. Still, she bleeds a little bit and people cry on the phone to me but are fine after a couple days. I took this example about this LDS couple who hung out with me in High School in Wyoming. I hung out with everyone back then. I just wanted friends and there were pretty bad nerd bullies at LVHS in my year, so I literally went to whatever place did "cool" teen stuff. One of those instances made the assistant principal tell my parents that I should go to community college for a year because he though "I wasn't responsible enough for real college". Community college sucks.

2) How many people like even those above talk about how they are going to be a mom or a dad 30 minutes after sex unless they are actually trying to get knocked up or to knock someone up?

3) Even very conservative people will say "keep IT!" and not "keep them!"

4)

I don't get it.  What are you trying to say?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Or: innocent child allowed to live their life thanks to Ohio law.

Are you willing to pay more tax to support that child, since an 11 year old mother obviously cannot?

By this logic we shouldn't have any laws at all.

That.. That, does it make even an ounce of sense. That's not even a cogent argument. I'm not even sure that's English. What in God's name are you even trying to communicate??

If my unwillingness to pay more taxes in general (I'd agree to a tax increase in exchange for a ban on abortion) means that my opposition to abortion is invalid, it also means that my support for enforcing laws against murder are also invalid.

Damn, I hope she can get an abortion. Absolutely disgusting.

But, but, nobody likes abortion!

I am so very smart, he thought to himself as he typed his latest brilliant retort, nearly unable to contain his giddiness at the thought of a traumatized 11 year old rape victim facing permanent disability and possible death as she’s forced to give birth to a likely-unviable fetus with severe health complications. I’m the complete package. Unending compassion, a paragon of morality and virtue, and the most brilliant mind of this generation.

Obviously what she is going through is horrible, but the baby shouldn't be murdered for the crimes of the father.

Would you be so cavalier if someone in your family or a friend was in such a position?

Yes, as long as the pregnancy wasn't going to kill them.  And I would be willing to give most of my money if that was required for the child to live.

I happily called bullsh**t. If so, contact your local hospitals. You will have the opportunity to do so tonight if you wish. But then you know that, don't you?

Any hospital that performed abortions wouldn't be interested.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Ohio also wants to ban many forms of birth control, including The Pill.

https://twitter.com/innovationohio/status/1126096661124657152

Do people not realize how illogical it is to be against abortion and against birth control at the same time? how dumb can you be.

The pill can cause abortion.  I am not against forms of birth control that can only work before fertilization, but, since life begins at fertilization, it is unacceptable for a form of "contraception" to stop an already fertilized life from implanting.  I don't know that I would call it murder, since that wasn't the main intent, but perhaps manslaughter (if people really understood that the pill IS sometimes an abortion).

That is a 19th century definition of abortion and you know it. This involves you cramming your religious views down the throats of others. To say a barely fertilized egg is a baby in order to get rate of birth control is the product either of ignorance or chronic incel status. Frankly, I guess both

Some views need to be crammed down other people's throats.  You and I have blue avatars, in reference to a party that forced its anti-slavery views on those who had different values than them.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

For an old man, I thought you would know about all this first-hand.    

Don't be surprised. Older members of the Religious Right have no choice to but to delete all memories about abortion from before the 1980s, lest they remember that their denominations explicitly supported Roe v. Wade when it came out, that Ronald Reagan is responsible for elective abortion being legalized in California (and remember, it was illegal because it wasn't considered safe, not because "life begins at fertilization), or that the biggest proponent of abortion rights in Congress back then was a Catholic priest.

Apparently the Religious Right invented time travel, because they somehow convinced Christians in the Roman Empire to oppose abortion.  And many Christians had to go against their culture on this.

Plenty of Evangelicals and fundamentalists opposed abortion.  As a Baptist without any particular modifiers who goes to a church that didn't exist in 1973 and has a pastor who was almost certainly born after, that doesn't really apply to me.

I find it interesting that denominations believe the Bible is 100% inerrant oppose abortion.  Isn't it also interesting that support for abortion seems to correlate with the decline of Christianity in a country?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

For an old man, I thought you would know about all this first-hand.    

Don't be surprised. Older members of the Religious Right have no choice to but to delete all memories about abortion from before the 1980s, lest they remember that their denominations explicitly supported Roe v. Wade when it came out, that Ronald Reagan is responsible for elective abortion being legalized in California (and remember, it was illegal because it wasn't considered safe, not because "life begins at fertilization), or that the biggest proponent of abortion rights in Congress back then was a Catholic priest.

Apparently the Religious Right invented time travel, because they somehow convinced Christians in the Roman Empire to oppose abortion.  And many Christians had to go against their culture on this.

Plenty of Evangelicals and fundamentalists opposed abortion.  As a Baptist without any particular modifiers who goes to a church that didn't exist in 1973 and has a pastor who was almost certainly born after, that doesn't really apply to me.

I find it interesting that denominations believe the Bible is 100% inerrant oppose abortion.  Isn't it also interesting that support for abortion seems to correlate with the decline of Christianity in a country?

Your last sentence is a desired outcome in the eyes of many here.

Well considering that a lot of millenials want nothing to do with religion, I'd say we're finally entering into a world where religion is not automatically a justification for genocides.

At least I know where you stand.  If you're anti-Christian, at least you're out front about it.  I have more respect for that than for people who insist that Scripture says things it clearly doesn't.

No, you fear that less than you do Christians who point out that the Bible does not prohibit abortion, and in fact explicitly assigns the fetus a lesser status than an actual human life.

"...the law does not provide that the act (abortion) pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation.’" -- St. Augustine

Yes, St. Augustine did oppose abortion, but not because he thought the fetus is a human life, it's because he believed that marriage and sex were for procreation, and women did not have the right to control their own bodies, so he denounced abortion as well as birth control. In other words, the same motivations I have been saying present day pro-lifers have.

Augustine's views were influenced by Greco-Roman thought.  Science has advanced since then.

Here's something more recent, Britain's ban on abortion that was repealed in 1967 was called the Infant Life Preservation Act.  Obviously, opposition to abortion was grounded in the  idea that it was murder.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

An 11-year old who is pregnant is likely on the more mature side physiologically and anatomically for her age, but of course a medical determination of the risks must be made in each individual case.   So the medical specifics guide what's permissible, but with the conviction that if it's possible to protect the health of the young mother, it's always better to protect the life growing inside her, for her own sake as well, and support her with everything she needs during her pregnancy and birth. Giving birth can be an affirmation of life and hope in the face of grave injustice; abortion compounds the tragedy.

One of the single most disgusting things I have read on this site, especially the parts that I emphasized. I’m not even going to dignify it with my usual trolling reply.

Shua has officially jumped the shark, Humanity wise.

As in, I believe that children conceived due to rape have humanity?   
Yeah.  I didn't expect people here would like that position but I never realized how controversial it was before merely to state it.

If fetuses were humans, then they would have legal personhood. They don't and attempts to do so have been regularly voted down.

Facts don't care about your feelings.

If you believe fetuses that are the product of rape, that's your right.

You have no right to force that view on everyone else.

The majority of people think abortion is okay, therefore it is okay!

If abortion is murder, as pro-lifers claim it is, then that view needs to be forced on society.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I said that if abortion is murder then it needs to be outlawed, regardless of the fact that some people think otherwise.  I understand that you disagree with my position on abortion, but can't you at least see where I'm coming from?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I said that if abortion is murder then it needs to be outlawed, regardless of the fact that some people think otherwise.  I understand that you disagree with my position on abortion, but can't you at least see where I'm coming from?

Sure, though the insistence by most abortion-is-murder types that the woman shouldn’t be punished gives the lie to the “belief”.

I think that both the woman seeking the abortion and the doctor should receive a punishment.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I said that if abortion is murder then it needs to be outlawed, regardless of the fact that some people think otherwise.  I understand that you disagree with my position on abortion, but can't you at least see where I'm coming from?

Sure, though the insistence by most abortion-is-murder types that the woman shouldn’t be punished gives the lie to the “belief”.

I think that both the woman seeking the abortion and the doctor should receive a punishment.

Same punishment as first degree murder? Potential death penalty for the mother?

I oppose the death penalty, so no.

Since there is a lot of misinformation about abortion, at first the punishment would be light (for the woman, the doctor would receive a very harsh punishment).

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I said that if abortion is murder then it needs to be outlawed, regardless of the fact that some people think otherwise.  I understand that you disagree with my position on abortion, but can't you at least see where I'm coming from?

Sure, though the insistence by most abortion-is-murder types that the woman shouldn’t be punished gives the lie to the “belief”.

I think that both the woman seeking the abortion and the doctor should receive a punishment.

What about the father or anyone who didn't say anything or helped? Shouldn't the father have known that his "son" or "daughter" was in danger? What would you say if a 4 year kid shot himself while his dad was binge watching cartoons in the next room?

It would be reviewed on a case by case basis.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I said that if abortion is murder then it needs to be outlawed, regardless of the fact that some people think otherwise.  I understand that you disagree with my position on abortion, but can't you at least see where I'm coming from?

Sure, though the insistence by most abortion-is-murder types that the woman shouldn’t be punished gives the lie to the “belief”.

I think that both the woman seeking the abortion and the doctor should receive a punishment.

Same punishment as first degree murder? Potential death penalty for the mother?

I oppose the death penalty, so no.

Since there is a lot of misinformation about abortion, at first the punishment would be light (for the woman, the doctor would receive a very harsh punishment).

Light?

Will she get a spanking and get grounded for a month?

A short prison sentence.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I said that if abortion is murder then it needs to be outlawed, regardless of the fact that some people think otherwise.  I understand that you disagree with my position on abortion, but can't you at least see where I'm coming from?

Sure, though the insistence by most abortion-is-murder types that the woman shouldn’t be punished gives the lie to the “belief”.

I think that both the woman seeking the abortion and the doctor should receive a punishment.

Same punishment as first degree murder? Potential death penalty for the mother?

I oppose the death penalty, so no.

Since there is a lot of misinformation about abortion, at first the punishment would be light (for the woman, the doctor would receive a very harsh punishment).

Light?

Will she get a spanking and get grounded for a month?

What about the father? He was out bangin' hoors when his baby momma cut up his kid.

He seems like a scumbag, but can it be proven that this person knew what was going on?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I said that if abortion is murder then it needs to be outlawed, regardless of the fact that some people think otherwise.  I understand that you disagree with my position on abortion, but can't you at least see where I'm coming from?

Sure, though the insistence by most abortion-is-murder types that the woman shouldn’t be punished gives the lie to the “belief”.

I think that both the woman seeking the abortion and the doctor should receive a punishment.

Same punishment as first degree murder? Potential death penalty for the mother?

I oppose the death penalty, so no.

Since there is a lot of misinformation about abortion, at first the punishment would be light (for the woman, the doctor would receive a very harsh punishment).

Light?

Will she get a spanking and get grounded for a month?

What about the father? He was out bangin' hoors when his baby momma cut up his kid.

He seems like a scumbag, but can it be proven that this person knew what was going on?

You can’t be an ostrich from the law. It’s his kid. he should’ve known.

Maybe she told him she had a miscarriage?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I said that if abortion is murder then it needs to be outlawed, regardless of the fact that some people think otherwise.  I understand that you disagree with my position on abortion, but can't you at least see where I'm coming from?

Sure, though the insistence by most abortion-is-murder types that the woman shouldn’t be punished gives the lie to the “belief”.

I think that both the woman seeking the abortion and the doctor should receive a punishment.

Same punishment as first degree murder? Potential death penalty for the mother?

I oppose the death penalty, so no.

Since there is a lot of misinformation about abortion, at first the punishment would be light (for the woman, the doctor would receive a very harsh punishment).

Light?

Will she get a spanking and get grounded for a month?

A short prison sentence.

This is absurd. If abortion is punished it should be punished harshly as murder.

Due to misinformation by the abortion industry, many people aren't aware that it's murder.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Pro-choicers complaining that most pro-lifers aren't advocating locking up girls who have abortions, and aren't engaged in enough revolutionary violence.   incredible.

I guess Abraham Lincoln didn't really believe slavery was an injustice, since he wasn't out there at Harper's Ferry with John Brown.

Is it too much to ask Republicans to have principles and to actually fight back against the things they scream and cry about being HUGE grave injustices? To prove that you aren't full of shiiza?

You have something specific in mind that would help?  I'll be glad to hear it.  We can enlist you into the cause!

Maybe more Republican representatives should come out publically and say that they fully endorse this and the Alabama abortion ban and tbat the country needs to start imprisoning women and doctors. If you TRULY, deep down, with no bulls___ believe abortion is murder, some of you should be campaigning to change the laws brcause it's truly the right thing to do and leaving things how they are now is unacceptable. If the Republican voter base TRULY feels the same, they will stand up and defend you when the liberals try to pounce on you. If current laws are a disgusting grave injustice, why isn't there an Unborn Lives Matter movement trending on social media and making news headlines and having huge public protests in cities all over the country?

Based on the evidence, it seems that either Republicans don't feel this way deep down, OR there are definitely Republicans that feel this way deep down, but it's a much smaller percentage than is claimed.

Yeah great ideas, why don't we try to change laws, maybe have a big protest, call it a "March for Life" or something like that?  We can also pray outside of abortion clinics and set up centers to encourage pregnant women to not abort and give them support through their pregnancy and afterwards.  Wow, we've never thought of any of that before!

Where are the conservative representatives going out of their way to praise and encourage Ohio, Georgia, Alabama right now on social media? The posts where they say "this is just the beginning, we're going to go to all 50 states and end this travesty"? A lot of them are being quiet as a political calculation. If they truly feel that strongly about children being murdered, politically calculated silence should not be a moral option for them to choose.

Do you mean the politicians?  Politicians are often insincere.  None of the people arguing in this thread are politicians (that I know of).