Hungary prepares to end legal recognition of trans people

[Cassius]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

[Cassius]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

Hitler's approval numbers were through the roof. Right and wrong aren't measured by aporoval ratings.

Well, if one purports to believe in ‘democracy’ what else can they be measured by?

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

The problem with that is that Orban and his allies control most of the media in the country, similar to what is true of Italy and Berluscioni, so a lot of that is manufactured by a controlled media.

This is pretty much par for the course in most western democracies - maybe not quite as directly and hamfistedly as in Hungary, but the press are always in the tank for one side or the other and formulate their reporting with that partisan intent in mind.

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

Because it's impossible for a dictatorship to enjoy popular support. Never happened in history.

Well no. But a government that can claim the support of c. 50% of the population, whilst being a little slipshod in maintaining the frills of ‘liberal democracy’, is less of an affront to the principle of ‘democracy’ than a government which does tend to those frills but also has approval ratings in the cellar and hasn’t faced the electorate for years.

[Cassius]

Hungary should not only be kicked, but threatened sanctions until democratic norms and a free, diversified locally-owned press is a reality in the nation.

So, your great strategy is to punish the Hungarian people until they vote for the correct parties? That will definitely work.

[Cassius]

The Hungarian people should be punished if they vote for fascist parties yes, South Africa was punished until it ended apartheid.


*I only support it if it's effective though, but  without knowing the effictiveness I agree wth the last sentence.

You’re not much of a socialist are you?

[Cassius]

Hungary should not only be kicked, but threatened sanctions until democratic norms and a free, diversified locally-owned press is a reality in the nation.

Fidesz says thank you for making their hold on power be even more entrenched than before.

So? Would it be better to ignore it and pray they won't go even further, or hope they'll just see the error of their ways and change?

How about going even further, like tossing aside these stupid democratic and human right values? Hey, why not admit Belarus to the EU right now, if authoritarianism is no longer a problem?

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the EU stands for democracy and human rights, as opposed to being a mechanism for shifting money around the continent and a job creation scheme for has-been and never-will-be national politicians. I would’ve thought the EU’s attitudes towards debtor states and refugees would’ve been enough to give lie to all that ‘values’ guff.

[Cassius]

Hungary should not only be kicked, but threatened sanctions until democratic norms and a free, diversified locally-owned press is a reality in the nation.

Fidesz says thank you for making their hold on power be even more entrenched than before.

So? Would it be better to ignore it and pray they won't go even further, or hope they'll just see the error of their ways and change?

How about going even further, like tossing aside these stupid democratic and human right values? Hey, why not admit Belarus to the EU right now, if authoritarianism is no longer a problem?

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the EU stands for democracy and human rights, as opposed to being a mechanism for shifting money around the continent and a job creation scheme for has-been and never-will-be national politicians. I would’ve thought the EU’s attitudes towards debtor states and refugees would’ve been enough to give lie to all that ‘values’ guff.

I'm well aware of the EU flaws, but I'm also aware that for all said flaws the European integration did achieve meaningful results in strenghtening certain values on the post-War continent.

Possibly, but I’d say the presence of an enormous number of Soviet and American troops in a divided and dismembered Germany probably played a bigger role. The EU and its laudators always like to piggyback on the achievements and actions of other actors in claiming it ‘brought peace to Europe’, but really that’s just bad history. There certainly are large changes that can be attributed directly to the EU (such as the role EU transfers have played in helping historically poor countries in the bloc to catch up, like Ireland), but the ‘values’ stuff really is the biggest bunch of old bollocks in the postwar era.