WalterMitty (R) vs. Howard Dean (D)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Interesting race, because the libertarians would vote overwhelmingly for the Democrat.

Dean/Dean

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Dean/Mitty

Dean'd win. You think Mitty's pro-war and extreme anti-gun views would play well?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

perhaps the anti gun stance would draw some democrats and left-leaning indies, and the pro war stance will help keep the GOP base solid in his column. With no major Perotesque third party to choose from, Mitty would win.

Nah, there's WAY more single issue pro-gun than anti-gun voters, and Mitty's views on the issue are WAY too extreme for the country, while Dean is mainstream. Keep in mind Walter actually advocates CONFISCATION of firearms.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Against Walter? Of course. Dean would win the NRA endorsement hands down, he does have an A rating from them after all. No person in this country that advocates that citizens be required to surrender handguns and assault weapons to federal authorities will ever win an election, and being pro-war now definitely wouldn't help.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

can you really see any NRA'ers voting for the Vermont liberal Dean?

If I recall correctly, Dean had an A rating from the NRA; if the organization itself can be fine with him, I don't see why voters wouldn't be.

Yeah, my mistake. I forgot how gun-friendly Vermont was, especially for a strong dem state. Still, I don't see conservatives voting for Dean at all.

But what does Walter agree with them on? Remember that many conservatives are now anti-war too. There is no reason at all for an anti-war/pro-gun voter to vote for Walter, and that makes up a significant percentage of the electorate at the moment. Throw in all standard liberals and partisan Democrats, and Dean has a pretty large base.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And not enough states to win. Actually, I could see Dean carrying the south (low evangelical turnout + he still gets the black vote)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There is no way in hell Walter would EVER win WV. He calls unions "organized crime" and says he is disgusted at any Republican who ever takes money from them. He hates unions more than anything else and would be lucky to break 40%. He also wouldn't win Ohio with his extreme hatred of protectionism and the fact that he thinks Bob Taft is a great guy. Dean could easily win a state Sherrod Brown did.

He definitely wouldn't win Iowa either. Iowa's a dovish, pro-gun state, and leans more toward protectionism than free trade.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What do I know, im a bit of a noob around here... If WalterMitty could keep his mouth shut on some things, he'd win.

Hatred of unions and free trade are some of his top issues. He'd get owned in the entire Rust Belt. He might even have some difficulty in protectionist/pro-gun NC. Like I said, Dean might even win some Deep South states, it wouldn't be that hard actually, you just need a very low white conservative turnout (likely with Walter) and decent black turnout.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The funny thing is, imagine someone the exact opposite of Walter. They'd be a pretty killer candidate.

Pro-union, pro-gun, socially conservative, anti-war? Very winning combo. Sounds like Brad Ellsworth, who beat a 6 term incumbent with over 60% in a district Bush also carried with over 60%. Walter probably has the worst possible alignment of views for a candidate.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

But plenty of union voters actually vote on this issue. Walter is basically the only person in the country who has socially liberal and economically leftist views but still votes Republican out of sheer hatred of unions. Anti-union people usually don't let it influence their voting that much. Much pro-gun vs. anti-gun voters actually.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Then there's the people who just vote for whoever has an "R" next to their name, which is enough to carry much of the Midwest and South.

Thats why I chose option 2. I'd vote for Dean but Mitty would win because he's a Republican. To most people, it won't matter what is beliefs are.

If that were true, the Republicans would automatically win every election. See last election.

Yes, there are lots of people who automatically vote for whoever the Republican (and Democrat) is, but they don't make up a majority of the population.

Just look at the electoral map. Dean would carry every Kerry state against a pro-war candidate, and would definitely carry Ohio in the current political climate there against someone with Mitty's views, plus WV for sure, the single worst possible state for WalterMitty, there's others too but that's already enough to give Dean the win.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

id win mn, wi, and nh

LOL! Do you know crap about my state? It's very pro-union and pro-gun and currently strongly anti-war. In what way do you have more appeal here than Bush? Same with Wisconsin. NH is also very pro-gun.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

id win mn, wi, and nh

LOL! Do you know crap about my state? It's very pro-union and pro-gun and currently strongly anti-war. In what way do you have more appeal here than Bush? Same with Wisconsin. NH is also very pro-gun.

MN and WI are pro-gun?  Screw that. Guns are bad. That was one issue where I disagreed with Dean, but I thought it would be a big help if he was ever in a general election.

I don't understand why people think any Midwestern state (except Illinois) would be anti-gun. Minnesota and Wisconsin certainly aren't Idaho on the issue, but we are sure a hell of a lot closer to Dean's position (leave it up to the states) than Walter's (Handguns and assault rifles should be confiscated by the federal government). I don't see any special appeal Walter has AT ALL.

The thing that would hurt him most though is the war. How did a pro-war candidate do in Minnesota last time?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The thing that would hurt him most though is the war. How did a pro-war candidate do in Minnesota last time?

Because every pro-war candidate is the same.

Back to the classroom junior.

Is Mitty that much better than Kennedy though? Of course he's more moderate than Kennedy, but Kennedy didn't lose because of abortion or gay marriage. I'm simply pointing out that any pro-war candidate is probably unelectable in Minnesota, and many other states.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

brtd, i would hope that the poors in podunk minnesota care more about health care than guns.  if so, they should vote for me!

Minnesota is not Kentucky:



Minnesota has the third lowest poverty rate in the US, and the second lowest number of uninsured. Our rural areas are not particularly poor. If most rural Minnesotans wanted some sort of government health care plan (something that you're pretty naive in assuming Dean also wouldn't propose, look at what Hillary, Obama and Edwards are saying), they would've voted for the guy who wanted to propose such a plan for the state, that being Mike Hatch.

Most of rural Minnesota is at least one of these three:

1-Very Republican
2-Union-heavy
3-Dovish

The only areas you'd do well obviously are the ones in the first category, which doesn't give you an advantage over any other Republican.

Also about 25% of Minnesotans are fundamentalist Christians. They make up the GOP base. They aren't going to get very excited over you. That equals low GOP turnout.

and im not 'anti-gun'.   im anti-handgun.  i have no problems with shotguns and rifles, weapons that serve a legitimate purpose.

Al Gore basically said the same thing (and note that he did NOT advocate government confiscation of firearms.) Rurals didn't believe him. Plenty of them still said "I'm not voting for Al Gore, he's going to take our guns away."

Try telling your typical hunter: "Look, the only weapons I want federal agents to confiscate are handguns. I'll leave your hunting rifles alone, I promise. Trust me."

He's not going to believe you. And he'll have less reason to believe you considering that huge amount of further licensing and registration you want to put on hunting rifles.

id win mn, wi, and nh

LOL! Do you know crap about my state? It's very pro-union and pro-gun and currently strongly anti-war. In what way do you have more appeal here than Bush? Same with Wisconsin. NH is also very pro-gun.

I thought there were quite a lot restrictions and gun laws in Minnesota?

No more so than most states.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Hell I'd probably beat him as I would have a base

But you're hopelessly delusional.

About my candidates winning, despite my appearance on the forum I would be a very strong candidate in real life.

This is even more deserving of the Comedy Goldmine than that last post of your's I quoted in it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm including radically conservative Catholics in that figure, but yes, I would definitely say that's the case. Even in my fairly liberal city the number is somewhere between 15 and 20% I'd guess. Just goes to show how liberal non-fundamentalist Minnesotans are.

Look at the counties that voted for Mark Kennedy. Those that did is where they make up the highest numbers, except Carver, which is simply uber-partisan GOP. The outer parts of Dakota, Anoka, Washington and Hennepin counties have a lot of evangelicals too, while the whole area around Stearns county also has quite a bunch, and even more ultra-conservative Catholics.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Which of the Lutheran denominations leans that way? I know it's not ELCA, but I always get the Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin Synod mixed up.

Wisconsin Synod (WELS) is the most conservative. The Missouri Synod (LCMS) is pretty conservative on political and cultural matters but not too much into fundamentalist theology (they even issued a decree condemning that Left Behind nonsense)

Anyway, the latter seems to be strong in the rural counties just West of where BRTD is (and also along the parts of the Wisconsin border South of the Twin Cities), while the former seems to be strong in most (though not all) rural parts of the state. The ELCA is the strongest Lutheran denomination in all but a handful of counties though.

Most of those really conservative counties west of me aren't dominated by conservative Lutherans though, but ultra-conservative Catholics and Dutch Calvinists.