Yes, heavy metal music did corrupt youth and spread a bad message!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Glad this guy was able to admit this actually. Yes the criticisms of it were absolutely true. It was a terrible influence upon people.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'd rather listen to Iron Maiden's worst album (No Prayer for the Dying) every day for the rest of my life than watch some dude commentating over a 30 year old news clip everybody has seen and rightfully mocked for being comically wrong and sensationalist about how, actually, Tipper Gore had a point and Judas Priestreally did drive people to suicide with a song they didn't even write. I'd also rather listen to No Prayer for the Dying than listen to a single emo album.

No Prayer for the Dying still had a couple good songs. Up the Irons!

Uh, Tipper Gore was talking about Motley Crue there and her points are really valid.

Also have you even heard a single emo album? Because people who think emo is music for teenagers on MySpace in 2006 usually haven't. Take a look at how many songs here significantly predate MySpace, including the entire top 5.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Sure and emo encouraged thousands of teens to commit suicide.

So everyone who watches emo cuts themselves and wants to commit suicide and is a whiny B, right?

Wrong. Are you talking about that stupid crap that kids on MySpace and cishet guys wearing makeup listened to? That ain't emo.

Like just look at the crowd in these...based on the hundreds of shows I've been to I can assure you that's what emo fans look like. I have never once seen one someone with the "MySpace look" at a show.

Also name a single song by Sunny Day Real Estate or Mineral or The Get Up Kids or Rites of Spring or Indian Summer or Saetia or Moss Icon or The Hotelier or Jawbreaker that encourages suicide.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'll admit to mild interest in what precisely the argument being made is, but not so much to justify immersing myself in YouTube criticism videos. What's the executive summary?

Basically Tipper Gore brings up the point that Motley Crue had lyrics like "Not a woman, but a whore. I can just taste the hate. Well now I'm killing you. Watch your face turning blue" and then the guy asks if you'd be totally fine with your teenage daughter listening to stuff like that. Like...yeah seriously. Or as he noted in another video if you would be OK with your teenage daughter going to a show where something like this shirt was at the merch table (I didn't imbed the image for a reason, so be warned, not exactly SFW and certainly deserves a CW.) But I know that any venue I frequent would definitely refuse to book a band with lyrics like Motley Crue and would refuse to allow shirts like that to be sold inside.

And after that he also notes that the gangster rap critics also had a point in that the number of people who picked up a gun and were inspired to think committing crime is cool after listening to gangster rap is non-zero.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's totally awesome when red's hipster Christianity and Mania for emo music collide and turn him into as bad a blue nose as any right wing socon,  and he doesn't even notice the incongruity

BRTD: Showing Atlas that "liberal" is not synonymous with "open minded" since 2003.

This dude was so liberal! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_N%C3%B6dtveidt

He totally stood up to the conservatives and the establishment! By...murdering a gay man in a satanic ritual (he managed to only go to jail from 1997-2004 because Sweden.)

But yeah any parents concerned that their kids are listening to music made by a guy like that are totally just uptight socons.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'll admit to mild interest in what precisely the argument being made is, but not so much to justify immersing myself in YouTube criticism videos. What's the executive summary?

Basically Tipper Gore brings up the point that Motley Crue had lyrics like "Not a woman, but a whore. I can just taste the hate. Well now I'm killing you. Watch your face turning blue" and then the guy asks if you'd be totally fine with your teenage daughter listening to stuff like that. Like...yeah seriously. Or as he noted in another video if you would be OK with your teenage daughter going to a show where something like this shirt was at the merch table (I didn't imbed the image for a reason, so be warned, not exactly SFW and certainly deserves a CW.) But I know that any venue I frequent would definitely refuse to book a band with lyrics like Motley Crue and would refuse to allow shirts like that to be sold inside.

And after that he also notes that the gangster rap critics also had a point in that the number of people who picked up a gun and were inspired to think committing crime is cool after listening to gangster rap is non-zero.

Everyone know hair metal isn't real metal, LMAO.

Meh whatever it's garbage either way. Like about a month ago I was at a show and wanting to see Dying Wish and Kublai Khan but this death metal band 200 Stab Sounds opened and it was soooooo bad and the vocals were just like cookie monster growling and it was boring and I was thinking "DAMMIT BRING IN DYING WISH SO WE CAN HAVE OUR SICK ASS F[INKS]ING CIRCLE PITS!"

Luckily Dying Wish did not disappoint. It was like these videos....try finding people being like this at an Iron Maiden concert!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Sure and emo encouraged thousands of teens to commit suicide.

So everyone who watches emo cuts themselves and wants to commit suicide and is a whiny B, right?

Wrong. Are you talking about that stupid crap that kids on MySpace and cishet guys wearing makeup listened to? That ain't emo.

Like just look at the crowd in these...based on the hundreds of shows I've been to I can assure you that's what emo fans look like. I have never once seen one someone with the "MySpace look" at a show.

Also name a single song by Sunny Day Real Estate or Mineral or The Get Up Kids or Rites of Spring or Indian Summer or Saetia or The Hotelier or Jawbreaker that encourages suicide.

The stuff those "kids on MySpace and cishet guys wearing makeup" listened to is at least as good as what you listen to.

LOL it was perfectly summed up here (1:42):

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Meanwhile, that festival with all the Hot Topic bands you say aren't emo is generating more discussion and excitement among people who don't post about foot fetishes on election forums than I've seen surrounding any form of emo music, authentic or not, since the days of MySpace.

Furnace Fest was just a couple months ago and it also was MASSIVE and sure generated excitement and discussion. I mean why did I fly to ALABAMA? And of course it was awesome. And did people care and come? Uh...

Also LOL@anyone who says death metal and black metal aren't mysoginistic. I'd post examples but they'd probably violate ToS.

And those videos are just boring as f[inks]. What the hell would I do if I was at an Iron Maiden concert? And those awful vocals....YIKES

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Generally at concerts, metal or otherwise, you listen to the music.

So stand around and suffer in agony. Ugh. I can't even get in a pit to distract myself or whatever.

Imagine calling Bruce Dickenson an awful vocalist. Like, you don't have to like the music, but he's widely considered one of the best vocalists ever, even outside of metal. And the fact that he's 63 and a throat cancer survivor and is only just now starting to decline slightly after sounding exactly the same for forty years. There's no accounting for taste, but good god, I've literally never seen anyone, even people who hate metal more than you do, call his vocals anything less than spectacular, let alone "awful." And judging by the "boring" crowds at Maiden shows that have been packing arenas for forty years on six continents (Metallica played on all seven!) vs. the circle pits at your shows, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who agrees with you either.

Wrong. Doing so for me would be super easy, barely an inconvenience. Like right now I'm posting in a Facebook group with 22k members who'd all agree with me. And all the people packed into venues when I go to these shows would. Like look at that crowd before Thursday!

BTW I think Thursday has toured South Africa, meaning they have played in all six populated continents.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Generally at concerts, metal or otherwise, you listen to the music.

So stand around and suffer in agony. Ugh. I can't even get in a pit to distract myself or whatever.

I mean, I'd be agony too if I had to listen to your music. But when music is good, it is fun to listen to it. That is the primary reason people pay for music, in fact!

And metal shows do have mosh pits. Metal had mosh pits before emo even existed. I don't know anything about then because I listen to music for the music.

I'm not seeing people act in those Iron Maiden videos like they are in that Evergreen Terrace at Furnace Fest video or the recoded people in that Knocked Loose video.

Like where are the people who are as into Iron Maiden as the people here? Is anyone even crowdsurfing?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Generally at concerts, metal or otherwise, you listen to the music.

So stand around and suffer in agony. Ugh. I can't even get in a pit to distract myself or whatever.

I mean, I'd be agony too if I had to listen to your music. But when music is good, it is fun to listen to it. That is the primary reason people pay for music, in fact!

And metal shows do have mosh pits. Metal had mosh pits before emo even existed. I don't know anything about then because I listen to music for the music.

I'm not seeing people act in those Iron Maiden videos like they are in that Evergreen Terrace at Furnace Fest video or the recoded people in that Knocked Loose video.

Like where are the people who are as into Iron Maiden as the people here?

The point of music is the music. Maiden fans sing along not only to every word, but to every note in the riffs and the solos, from the front row to the nosebleeds. Of course, besides the moshing and crowdsurfing which metal does have as well (but even EDM has moshpits, so I don't see why you're so impressed by them), there's also headbanging and whatnot, but the point of the music is the music. Go to a Maiden show and you'll meet tens of thousands of people who own all seventeen of their albums, have seen tons of their shows, learned an instrument just so they could play The Trooper, and often have Eddie tattoos. It's the music that connects with people. Like any genre, except apparently yours, where passion is quantified by flailing a trashcan around like a tweaker.

Yes it and EDM has mosh pits, but not circle pits, walls of death, emo trembles, floorpunching, etc.

And that still sounds like hell especially as the music is trash. Yech. Although LOL@the notion that emo and hardcore fans have obsessive vinyl collections or band tattoos. Like groups devoted to sharing pics of those are the main thing I use Facebook for now.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's totally awesome when red's hipster Christianity and Mania for emo music collide and turn him into as bad a blue nose as any right wing socon,  and he doesn't even notice the incongruity

BRTD: Showing Atlas that "liberal" is not synonymous with "open minded" since 2003.

There's always been a huge divide on the left in terms of free speech and morality policing. Many liberals have always had a nanny-state tendency in them. Liberal attempts to censor Gone with the Wind in film schools and on television date back well over half a century if not longer, to cite one example. This kind of whiny, "think of the children!" art policing has been part of a certain segment of the left for way longer than the woke brigade of today or Tipper Gore of yesterday.

But that's definitely not me. I just don't like heavy metal music.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's totally awesome when red's hipster Christianity and Mania for emo music collide and turn him into as bad a blue nose as any right wing socon,  and he doesn't even notice the incongruity

BRTD: Showing Atlas that "liberal" is not synonymous with "open minded" since 2003.

There's always been a huge divide on the left in terms of free speech and morality policing. Many liberals have always had a nanny-state tendency in them. Liberal attempts to censor Gone with the Wind in film schools and on television date back well over half a century if not longer, to cite one example. This kind of whiny, "think of the children!" art policing has been part of a certain segment of the left for way longer than the woke brigade of today or Tipper Gore of yesterday.

But that's definitely not me. I just don't like heavy metal music.

And I don't like emo music, but I'm not partisan enough to align myself with Jerry Falwell and start believing the stereotypes about the music promoting self harm, like you're doing with metal.

And I never said emo fans don't care about the music. I said you're a bad ambassador for your favorite genre who makes it sound like musical quality should be measured by moshpit activities that sound like rejected WWF finishing moves.

I have no beef with the emo genre. It's not my cup of tea, so I don't listen to it and I don't insult the musicians themselves. I have a beef with you being an obnoxious hack.

That's weird because you keep dumping on it and calling it the music of teenagers on MySpace and that it promotes suicide which is a RIDICULOUS accusation that real fans of it hate that stuff (funnily enough you have given a PERFECT analogy earlier in this thread by dumping on hair metal and saying it's not really metal and most metal fans hate it....I've even heard the hair metal analogy before applied to those bands from emo fans) and most of the genre's best work predates MySpace. Like where was MySpace in 1985?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

That's weird because you keep dumping on it and calling it the music of teenagers on MySpace

That was not the point of that post. If you recall, the discussion was about why so few women post on Atlas, someone suggested that maybe your constant talking about your foot fetish on an election forum may have something to do with it, you said that women on your emo forums don't have any problem with it (that you know of, not that you'd stop even if you knew) therefore it's fine. Then I said that maybe a near-forty year old man obsessed with the genre of teenagers on MySpace circa 2006 might not be credible or self-aware enough on what creeps women out on election websites. Whether or not that's that's accurate description of emo (and I know it's not), that is the perception of the genre. What people may put up with on those sites doesn't mean it's not creepy to do it here (or there, for that matter). That was my point; you missed that point and instead decided to double down on semantics and literally bragged about how, as an adult, you enjoy mocking what literal children listen to as if that makes you cool.

I'm not dumping on emo music. I'm dumping on you for being an obnoxious, creepy hack. Why would I have strong opinions about emo when I'm not the target audience, the way you dump on things you don't like by siding with Jerry Falwell and calling Bruce Dickenson an awful singer. As you are wont to say, LMAO.

There's more to it than one post...but anyway outside of the fact that Quentin Tarantino movies still get acclaim and win Oscars my main point was that people here REALLY overstate the level to which women are driven off just by things as innocuous as "Is ____________ attractive?" threads when applied to politicians or candidates or whatever, when women don't really care about such comments about female emo band members or in movie discussion places about actresses. And of course they do the same thing about men, it happens here too although it's mostly gay posters because of the gender ratio to begin with. But as I also noted our female admin is also one of the least prudish people here and really is not bothered by that stuff.

This is the your dumbest talking point on this subject. Nirvana's first album came out in the 80s, but everyone agrees Nirvana is a 90s band. Grunge in general is associated with the 90s even though a lot of the bands started in the 80s and kept going into the new millennium. People who were born after the 60s and watch Star Trek aren't retroactively born in the 60s, and Star Trek: The Next Generation isn't a 60s show even though Star Trek began in the 60s. Star Trek also got a lot more popular during the 70s in syndication than it was in the 60s; is every kid who watched Trek reruns in the 70s now a 60s kid? The aughts were the height of emo existing in the mainstream public consciousness, whether or not what people thought was emo was authentic, they were thinking about something called emo more than people were in other time periods.

But MySpace was not the peak of emo at all. In fact that was actually probably the genre's low point, the "emo revival" picked up around 2013ish which is well after MySpace left public relevance. The classic staples of the genre like Sunny Day Real Estate's Diary and Jimmy Eat World's Clarity were well before MySpace. I'm trying to think of a classic emo album released back when MySpace was at its peak, the only band from the wave of the 90s that was still around making albums is probably The Appleseed Cast (in terms of bands that never broke up, a lot reunited later), and of course Jimmy Eat World but moving away from emo....and I suppose Thursday? But their most acclaimed albums were well before MySpace. Taking Back Sunday's Louder Now was in 2006, but most fans prefer the first two albums especially the first from 2002. Rainer Maria released a good album in 2006 but it wasn't as well received as their oldest stuff and the band broke up shortly afterwards (although they reunited.) I can probably come up with some examples if I thought about it enough but the point is clear.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Sure and emo encouraged thousands of teens to commit suicide.

So everyone who watches emo cuts themselves and wants to commit suicide and is a whiny B, right?

Wrong. Are you talking about that stupid crap that kids on MySpace and cishet guys wearing makeup listened to? That ain't emo.

Like just look at the crowd in these...based on the hundreds of shows I've been to I can assure you that's what emo fans look like. I have never once seen one someone with the "MySpace look" at a show.

Also name a single song by Sunny Day Real Estate or Mineral or The Get Up Kids or Rites of Spring or Indian Summer or Saetia or Moss Icon or The Hotelier or Jawbreaker that encourages suicide.

Emo is when angsty teenagers wearing all black and slathered in garish makeup sing about cutting and suicide. The more angsty it is the more emoer it is.

What bands in Washington, DC in 1985 did that?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

OK also a serious question here:

WHERE ARE THE BREAKDOWNS IN IRON MAIDEN SONGS?

Like do they have even a single song where it gets slow in the middle and the gradually builds up to the breakdown where singer just repeats the same thing twice or three times in a row for the crowd to scream along to and then do a really brutal mosh part? There's bands with WAY less songs than they have that have like half of their songs like that lol. And they don't have a single one!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

OK also a serious question here:

WHERE ARE THE BREAKDOWNS IN IRON MAIDEN SONGS?

Like do they have even a single song where it gets slow in the middle and the gradually builds up to the breakdown where singer just repeats the same thing twice or three times in a row for the crowd to scream along to and then do a really brutal mosh part? There's bands with WAY less songs than they have that have like half of their songs like that lol. And they don't have a single one!

The day Iron Maiden ever does that in one of their songs is the day I burn all of my Iron Maiden stuff and spend the rest of my life denying I ever liked them.

Also mosh pits sound really dangerous. It's hard to think of something that seems less fun.

What? Dude you think these songs are that bad? (examples of super-sick breakdowns in that style)

And no mosh pits are not really dangerous. I've been in well over a hundred and I've never been injured. More people get injured at shows for tripping down stairs or whatever while drunk than in the mosh pit.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Harry do you seriously think venues would allow mosh pits if they were so dangerous? That'd be a liability nightmare waiting to happen.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Harry do you seriously think venues would allow mosh pits if they were so dangerous? That'd be a liability nightmare waiting to happen.

Music venues have a long history of allowing, or even encouraging, lots of dangerous behaviours

Yeah but how often do you hear of moshing injuries or lawsuits? I'm guessing when you order tickets online now there's probably a legal disclaimer of you waiving the right to sue if you're injured moshing...but how often does that happen? Like I said I've been to literally hundreds of shows and I've seen more injuries from drunk people stumbling than moshing.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

OK also a serious question here:

WHERE ARE THE BREAKDOWNS IN IRON MAIDEN SONGS?

Like do they have even a single song where it gets slow in the middle and the gradually builds up to the breakdown where singer just repeats the same thing twice or three times in a row for the crowd to scream along to and then do a really brutal mosh part? There's bands with WAY less songs than they have that have like half of their songs like that lol. And they don't have a single one!

The day Iron Maiden ever does that in one of their songs is the day I burn all of my Iron Maiden stuff and spend the rest of my life denying I ever liked them.

Also mosh pits sound really dangerous. It's hard to think of something that seems less fun.

Mosh pits are actually fun and tough to get hurt much in.

The problem is when one becomes such a cultural lemming that they become largely necessary to enjoy the music.

I should make a superhero meme with the buttons being:

"BRTD can't enjoy music he can't mosh to."
"BRTD only listens to emo."

Choose one.

Because most emo does not result in mosh pits, lol.

I listen to a lot of different types of music dude. It's just that heavy metal (or rap, or country, or any type of electronic music) aren't included.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Harry do you seriously think venues would allow mosh pits if they were so dangerous? That'd be a liability nightmare waiting to happen.

How would a venue disallow moshing the first place? Stop and cancel the concert if people start doing it? Have a bunch of undercover cops in the crowd to start arresting people at the first sign of it?

It just seems like one of those things you could have a "rule" against but no real enforcement mechanism.

The bouncers can break things up and eject anyone who starts doing it. That's how some venues enforce rules against crowd surfing and stage diving. When I was in Boston I saw a kid get ejected during literally the last song because he did a stage dive which this venue banned, (although I must give him credit, if you're going to do that it might as well be at literally the last song! I have a feeling he planned that.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's totally awesome when red's hipster Christianity and Mania for emo music collide and turn him into as bad a blue nose as any right wing socon,  and he doesn't even notice the incongruity

BRTD: Showing Atlas that "liberal" is not synonymous with "open minded" since 2003.

There's always been a huge divide on the left in terms of free speech and morality policing. Many liberals have always had a nanny-state tendency in them. Liberal attempts to censor Gone with the Wind in film schools and on television date back well over half a century if not longer, to cite one example. This kind of whiny, "think of the children!" art policing has been part of a certain segment of the left for way longer than the woke brigade of today or Tipper Gore of yesterday.

But that's definitely not me. I just don't like heavy metal music.

And I don't like emo music, but I'm not partisan enough to align myself with Jerry Falwell and start believing the stereotypes about the music promoting self harm, like you're doing with metal.

And I never said emo fans don't care about the music. I said you're a bad ambassador for your favorite genre who makes it sound like musical quality should be measured by moshpit activities that sound like rejected WWF finishing moves.

I have no beef with the emo genre. It's not my cup of tea, so I don't listen to it and I don't insult the musicians themselves. I have a beef with you being an obnoxious hack.

That's weird because you keep dumping on it and calling it the music of teenagers on MySpace and that it promotes suicide which is a RIDICULOUS accusation that real fans of it hate that stuff (funnily enough you have given a PERFECT analogy earlier in this thread by dumping on hair metal and saying it's not really metal and most metal fans hate it....I've even heard the hair metal analogy before applied to those bands from emo fans) and most of the genre's best work predates MySpace. Like where was MySpace in 1985?

 Is it worth pointing out here that you are taking extreme fringe and largely unpopular//nobody songs and groups to try to prove your point about azjandra that you are 99% ignorant of? I mean you've got more than a little bit of  Is a pot and kettle thing going here.

SUNNY DAY REAL ESTATE is an unpopular nobody band?!

Dude.

(Also "azjandra", lol, I have no clue what that is.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I should make a superhero meme with the buttons being:

"BRTD can't enjoy music he can't mosh to."
"BRTD only listens to emo."

Choose one.

Because most emo does not result in mosh pits, lol.

Dude, you literally used the lack of mosh-ability in metal (even though metal has moshpits) as a reason for not only why you don't like metal, but also as a reason for why you think metal is bad. You also used the lack of moshing up to your standard as evidence that metal fans aren't into their music like you are into yours, even when I posted a Judas Priest video where Halford didn't sing one syllable because the crowd sang every word + the guitar solo.

To elaborate, the point about the breakdowns and the sick mosh parts is that any HEAVY music to me doesn't sound like music and I can't really digest it if it doesn't have those elements to it. It's like...my brain doesn't even process it as music.

Like take this Smashing Pumpkins song.

(Yes, I do like the band. I own the album this is from.)

I HATE this song. And yes the album is great otherwise. But this sounds like just noise. You can't have a song this heavy without those type of things. No breakdowns? No melodic emo-like twinkly parts? No emoviolence style out of control screaming vocals? Then to me I'm basically a Boomer who thinks it's just noise. But THIS song on the other hand...it has basically all that stuff so it F[INKS]ING KICKS ASS

Also my criticism was that metal songs don't have mosh parts, not so much not mosh pits. Like look at that Sharptooth video which is basically a parody of that type of song, at about 1:55 Lauren starts explaining how the song is going to go in a pretty literal manner, and that's exactly what happens...and then it follows up with the sickest mosh part ever!  Iron Maiden is so soooooooooooooo boring in comparison.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Twinkly parts are a type of riff. Like the intro to this:

Probably the proto-example:

They're in screamo songs too:

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So... ballads. You like ballads. Good news, then, because metal has those too. Metallica's first MTV hit was a ballad, in fact; their second biggest single ever, which you have to have lived under a rock to have never heard, was a ballad. Iron Maiden has usually throws in one or two per album. There's entire compilation albums just of metal ballads.

LOL no. Those sound nothing like emo.

These are dumb lol