Are white evangelcials less moral

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

That "Military Religious Freedom" site reads EXACTLY like some Bush Administration era "THEOCRACY WATCH" blog, LMAO.

Also how they arrived at those numbers is not well explained and there's no mention of the methodology like you always see with election and approval rating polls, even poorly conducted ones. It kind of reminds me of those Overtime Politics "polls".

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

That "Military Religious Freedom" site reads EXACTLY like some Bush Administration era "THEOCRACY WATCH" blog, LMAO.

Also how they arrived at those numbers is not well explained and there's no mention of the methodology like you always see with election and approval rating polls, even poorly conducted ones. It kind of reminds me of those Overtime Politics "polls".

95% of their members are Christian.

Irrelevant.

They've had 77,000 clients — again, mostly religious people, not atheists — from the military asking them for legal protection from religious coercion and marginalization.

Great work if so. That still doesn't change the fact these statistics they're citing are not scientifically based. Look at our polling subforums, we're skeptical all the time of scientifically conducted polls with transparent methodology, much less this.

This is not some dude blogging from his basement; Mikey Weinstein was in the Reagan administration for god's sake.

Okay. Still doesn't change the fact the blog on that site (not referring to any of the work the organization does or whatever) still reads like Democratic Underground posts circa 2004.

A lot of the most extreme right wingers, the type of people who stormed the Capitol, are ex-military.

The vast majority of people who stormed the Capitol are not.

Tgese are people with more power to do a coup than some wackjob wearing animal skin. You can either recognize this as a serious contributor to the danger presented by the far right, or pretend not to see it.

The only political things we heard from high level military officers after Trump was that they would NOT intervene and the military cooperated entirely with Biden's transition. And military members are not overwhelmingly right-wing.

If this coup threat is so great now then why was there no attempt to do so against Biden? Or hell even Obama for that matter. The religious right was far more prominent in 2008 than today.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The only political things we heard from high level military officers after Trump was that they would NOT intervene and the military cooperated entirely with Biden's transition. And military members are not overwhelmingly right-wing.

If this coup threat is so great now then why was there no attempt to do so against Biden? Or hell even Obama for that matter. The religious right was far more prominent in 2008 than today.

The key to a coup being successful is backing of the military. There was a coup attempt against Biden on Jan. 6 that was unsuccessful in part because it didn't have formal backing if the military, but according to the MRFF, there are 34% of military NCOs who fit the profile of people who would be willing and able to push the next coup attempt over the finish line.

Again that 34% number seems to be as far what's quoted just a guess this guy pulled out of his ass. Also the definition used around the Great Commission is kind of laughable. By that standard Jimmy Carter was also one of these Dominionists as would be Pete Buttigieg and plenty of other Democrats as well as a solid majority of black voters. Hell by this standard my church is a theocratic Dominionist one.

But even if we assume it's correct, 34% is nowhere near the number needed for a successful coup especially when support amongst military rank and file is no doubt far less.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Not referring to anyone here in particular but this does remind me of one of the dumbest things I read on DailyKos in 2008, an entry on some SHOCKING video from Sarah Palin's church that proved how much of a theocrat she was that was... basically a 15 second clip showing some people raising their hands and swaying in the air to a worship song. That was it.

Now to be fair even then about half the replies were along the lines of this and yes there were some legitimately very concerning things about Palin's church (like that lunatic Nigerian pastor who preached about witchcraft or whatever who was a frequent guest speaker) but that really just underscores the question of why focus on something so laughably trivial. The truth is at the time much of the Democratic netroots was laughably out of touch with Christian culture and seemed to have a bizarre dichotomy that all churches were either those harmless historic and tradition based "high churches" or advocated a Handmaid's Tale-style theocracy with absolutely no middle ground or nuance and hilariously this led to a lot of effectively socially conservative views about how certain things were "the wrong way to worship" and had to be condemned as inherently evil and theocratic...drop the "and theocratic" and it could just as easily be fundamentalists attacking rock music. (Sometimes even in a literal parallel! "Churches that play rock music are evil hives of theocracy" was another Democratic Underground talking point.) Also love the "guided" for liberal Christians seeking a church that such sites would post often from writers who would preface it if with things like "I'm not religious now and haven't been to a church in 15 years but if you do want to go you ABSOLUTELY have to avoid churches that do things like this because when I was a kid I attended a church that did such things and preached some socially conservative doctrine", a hilarious parallel to those conservative evangelical guides about how to spot and avoid a "theologically liberal" church.

The fact that the modern day party base and even the wokies don't adhere to this way of thinking is actually a huge plus and probably one of the few positive things I'll say about the wokies.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Again that 34% number seems to be as far what's quoted just a guess this guy pulled out of his ass. Also the definition used around the Great Commission is kind of laughable. By that standard Jimmy Carter was also one of these Dominionists as would be Pete Buttigieg and plenty of other Democrats as well as a solid majority of black voters. Hell by this standard my church is a theocratic Dominionist one.

But even if we assume it's correct, 34% is nowhere near the number needed for a successful coup especially when support amongst military rank and file is no doubt far less.

Whatever the number is, you're the person who always filibusters about how three people with anime avatars on Twitter are going to cause a century of Republican rule because they replace vowels in certain words with x's.

Please cite a single post where I said anything would result in a century of Republican rule.

There are certainly more extreme Dominionists in the military with the potential for actual than there any number of people you constantly rant about.

The MRFF is filled with credible people from the military. They are not anti-Christian.

I never said they were anti-Christian.

The stuff Milley has been revealing about the military is the same stuff the MRFF has been reporting for years. 77,000 military personnel have consulted them for help and protection from their military colleagues, including some high ranking officers. 77,000 people wouldn't do that if there weren't a sizable amount of extreme Christian Nationalists in the ranks.

Discrimination issues in the military while important to address, are not the same thing as the country being THIS CLOSE to a literal Handmaid's Tale like theocracy.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Again that 34% number seems to be as far what's quoted just a guess this guy pulled out of his ass. Also the definition used around the Great Commission is kind of laughable. By that standard Jimmy Carter was also one of these Dominionists as would be Pete Buttigieg and plenty of other Democrats as well as a solid majority of black voters. Hell by this standard my church is a theocratic Dominionist one.

But even if we assume it's correct, 34% is nowhere near the number needed for a successful coup especially when support amongst military rank and file is no doubt far less.

Whatever the number is, you're the person who always filibusters about how three people with anime avatars on Twitter are going to cause a century of Republican rule because they replace vowels in certain words with x's.

Please cite a single post where I said anything would result in a century of Republican rule.

Thank you for proving my point. You're the most pedantic person alive regarding other people's wording when they say "nobody says this" and literally (figuratively) everyone but you knows the mean "nobody except a miniscule, insignificant, amount of powerless nobodies says this", but when actual credible people like those at the MRFF start talking about meaningful (not a majority) amount of people who are not insignificant in their real world threat, it's "yeah, well, nobody is ACTUALLY a threat, lmao."

Imagine if you saw this exchange (example I used elsewhere):
Person A: Sexual misconduct does not exist amongst Democratic politicians.
Person B: Uh, it obviously does. Like fairly recently we just had Andrew Cuomo resign over that.
Person A: That's just one guy, out of the thousands of elected Democrats in the country.
Person B: What about Al Franken then? Or *recent minor politician example*.
Person A: Again, you're just cherrypicking examples. These people make up very few of the total percentage of Democratic politicians. You can keep bringing up a couple examples but that doesn't disprove that it's incredibly rare. They don't really exist.

Or my analogy about if I said I've never been to Houston, because I've only been there for an airport layover that lasted about an hour...that doesn't mean I've never been to Houston.

I never said we were THIS CLOSE to a literal Handmaid's Tail. Please cite a single instance where I said that. (See? I can do that too! Annoying, isn't it?)

The Handmaid's Tale talk comes from Democratic Underground and DailyKos (I know, who the hell cares about them today, but you're the one who said we should go back to Bush Administration thinking.)

I said it was real, credible threat and that the amount of people, while a minority, is significant.

You still have yet to provide a source for your numbers that stands scrutiny. It doesn't matter if they're a good organization. Good organizations release bad polls all the time. We don't even know if this is a poll or how this information was obtained and estimated, there's no citation of the methodology, how being a dominionist is defined (The "Great Commission" thing cited is an absurd standard, it's one of the central tenets of Christianity so that would include virtually all Christians), etc.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You keep citing the 34% Christian Nationalist/Dominionist figure, but the source you're using is an advocacy group with an agenda. That's not immediately disqualifying, but it's entirely reasonable for skeptics to want to know how they did their research, and defined their terms, especially for something as nebulous as Christian Nationalism, which according to the first few paragraph's of its Wikipedia article, covers everything from borderline theocracy to blue laws to nativity displays.

So how did they arrive at this figure, well according to the link you cited:

Mikey Weinstein
Our best estimate here at the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. We’re the only organization that focuses with laser-like precision on the military. Is that we’ve got somewhere and we talked about it last time. Between 28% and 34%, maybe 35% of the military that would qualify as Christian nationalists in that their belief is that they can propagate the Great Commission again. Mark 16:15, Matthew 28:19. Jesus saying, get everybody and that’s your prime directive, not love the Lord, your God and the Golden Rule. Get everybody in. [crosstalk 00:31:34]

Paul Jay
How do you get to that number, though? 25%-30%.

Mikey Weinstein
Just through our experience, we’ve been doing this for the better part of 20 years, and we see it everywhere. So you start just like if you ask a dentist, what is it like when you do a root canal? If you get someone right out of dental school, there’ll be a small sample. But we’ve been doing the law of big numbers. I know the names of the glitterati of people that you’ve interviewed. You’re an excellent interviewer. I’m not buttering you up. You probably weren’t this good when you started years ago, but it’s the experience of doing it over and over again.

I had to have some emergency surgery a week ago, and I asked the surgeon who was about to do the procedure. How many times have you done this? He said I started when I was 25 years old. I’m 57 now. So I’ve been doing this for 22 years. I’ve done it a few thousand times. So when people look at us, when I tell you that we’ve got over 77,000 hamburgers served here, if we were McDonald’s clients that were helping and that we’ve helped all the way through, you start seeing where the trends are.

We believe that about the military chaplaincy are evangelicals. That again means that they follow the Great Commission, not the Great Commandment. About a third of those, roughly a third of the chaplains, would be considered Christian nationalists. And whether there’s a direct relationship or not. I’m just telling you, we are subject matter experts. I’ve been hired by the Pentagon before to give my expertise. And when they were trying to put together a spiritual fitness test, which, of course, would be a violation of clause 3, Article 6 of the Constitution, which states quite clearly, we will never have a religious test for any position in the federal government.

I kept telling them that. And I said you can go put lipstick on a pig and call it something else. But the bottom line is now. The reason Milley was terrified is, you see that he reports to someone called the commander in chief. And that is Donald Trump. I believe that Donald Trump is mentally ill. I believe that he is the same. Exactly the same he is now as he was when he was two or three, not just petulant, mentally ill. He’s a complete coward. He’s a very stupid man, but he’s been enabled his entire life.

The problem is the Daisy chain. I think we might have talked about. It goes like this. You stopped teaching civics in high school, and my sophomore civics teacher was a retired lawyer named Mr. Gerrard. It was a rite of passage. Poor education breeds ignorance, which gives rise to fear, which catalyzes hate, which gives birth to bigotry and prejudice, which leads to blood in the streets. We are already seeing blood in the streets.

I’m not trying to be a naysayer. I’m just trying to say that if we’re going to save this country and this means that progressives, if you want to coordinate progressives, Conservatives, you get them in a room together and they work like hand in glove, like the Christian nationalism, a nationalist handling Trump and his folks, you get a bunch of Progressives in a room together and they’ll try to Peck each other’s eyes out with a pencil.

I mean, I love Michelle Obama, but when she says, when they go low, we go high. No, Michelle, no. When they go low, we have to go low to fight them there. Otherwise, we’re going to lose. I couldn’t believe that. I lived long enough the other day. Maybe you saw it where Karl Rove was calling out Trump and his people. Karl Rove is barely almost Homosapien.

No poll, no study, just the intuition of an activist mixed into a rambling non-answer about his methods. As BRTD says it sounds like he pulled his numbers from his arse.

Also he has no clear cut definition of a "Christian Nationalist", he says something about "follow the Great Commission, not the Great Commandment", which is an utterly LAUGHABLE false dichotomy and also would include liberal Christians as well. If a church has any type of outreach programs, and accepts and baptizes new members, then it's a Christian Nationalist one per this definition.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I was musing recently that if you did want to cite an actual somewhat realistic example of what a Christian fundamentalist regime would look like from a work of fiction, the regime in the film version of V For Vendetta is a FAR better example than The Handmaid's Tale, even if it's both quite different from the graphic novel and completely missed the point of what the graphic novel was about, and a fairly laughable premise that fundamentalist Christians would ever be capable of seizing power in Britain of all places.