Which situation would you prefer for Iraq?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

A: Secular regime installed. Nothing like Saddam's regime, no wars, genocidal campaigns, no torture chambers and political opponents aren't regularly executed and tortured, but the government is very harsh against religious extremists. Secularism is largely imposed on the populace. After a few years of this democratic reforms are gradually made, until the country acheives a point where it is more or less stable and democratic, and also staunchly secular in government, much like in Turkey.

B: Elections held as soon as possible. Almost no parties based on ideology, all on religious or ethnic groups. Islamists of one group win the elections in a landslide, and despite token outreach efforts to other religious and ethnic groups draft a Constitution declaring Islam the foundation of all of Iraq's laws. Elections continue, with the government essentially unbeatable due to being the majority of what the parties are based on (much like in Malaysia) leading to some undemocratic clampdowns on minority parties. Meanwhile, some largely autonomous areas start giving the death penalty for adultery, homosexuality or not wearing proper Islamic dress. The federal government allows this to continue and says it has no place to intervene.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'd like option A in the same way I'd like to live in a house made of gingerbread and lollipops.

^^^

Iraqis: "we're strongly religious"
Iraqi government: "well your government is secular lol"
Iraqis: "wtf"

4 YEARS LATER

Iraqis: "the government is secular so i guess i'll give up islam to be secular too"
Iraqi government: "k now you get elections"
Iraqis: "oh good, i vote for the secular candidates"
Iraqi government: "w00t"
Iraqis: "also i like communist strippers, i will legalize them"

Well that's what happened in Turkey (although not so simplified). Ataturk forced secularism on the populace, and it largely worked even after the country democraticized. You know that ban on headscarves in schools in France that everyone whined about so much? Turkey has had such a law for years. But of course no one whines about that because it's a predominately Muslim country.

I prefer Option A all the way, it worked great for Turkey.

You get arrested in Turkey for criticising the government. What they lack in religious oppression they make up for with ethnic repression and militarism.

Well I'd take that over religious opression

me too. Turkey certainly has problems with media censorship and their complete denial of the Armenian genocide, but it sure beats forcing girls to die inside a burning school because they don't have their burkahs on or publicly beheading homosexuals.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well that's what happened in Turkey (although not so simplified).

No, not really

Obviously nothing is that simple, but the basic premise stands that Turkey was Westernized and secularized.

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After how many years of (let's not mince words here) fascist dictatorship?

Depends on your definition of "fascist" I suppose. I'm not fan of Ataturk's nationalism, but the party most closely related to him today is Turkey's primary leftist party and the equivalent of European Social Democrats.

Plus this site: http://moreorless.au.com which is clearly ran by an EXTREMELY liberal person lists him as one of the Heroes of the 20th Century. Compare the others on the list, plus the list of "killers" (hey, much like Freedom Fighter/Horrible Person!)

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Actually people *have* been complaining about it... it's one of the reasons why the Muslim Democratic party (I forget the actual name but that's basically what they are) won a landslide a few years ago. You know, when the Secular government (which included some out-and-out blackshirted fascists in it's coalition) got thumped so hard they didn't win any seats?

Yes, I know about those Turkish Nationalist Movement or whatever the hell they're called f'uckers and certainly want them out of parliament forever, but let's look at things in perspective. The Justice and Development Party (I think that's what they're called), did not win a landslide, while they hold a landslide in Parliament, this is due to Turkey's extremely idiotic electoral system which is proportional representation with a 10% threshhold. This kept all but two parties out. Justice and Development won only a little more than a third of the vote. One party came within less than half a percent of the threshold, had they done so, they would've radically changed the makeup. Also I believe the other parties in that coalition were mostly socialist/left, but the second party and main opposition is the Ataturk-linked staunchly secular Social Democrats mentioned above. I don't have complete results off hand, but it is possible voters simply moved from that ruling left party to them.

The main point still stands though, for all its flaws, Turkey is still a hell of a lot better off than decidedly non-secular countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia and even non-democratic secular ones like Egypt certainly are as well.