Does Greece have the highest percentage of Horrible People in the world?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's a pretty likely candidate. Based on their last election:

Golden Dawn: 7.0%
Communist Party of Greece: 5.6%

AKA 12.6% of Greek voters are murderous genocide supporting thugs. Not just voting for terrible parties (plenty of that around the world) but supporting parties with genocidal ideologies. Can't think of any country with fair elections that can top that.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No. Unfortunately, I think those parties could get a similar percentage in a lot of countries.

Just for one example, I believe that the Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada received 0.05% at the last election.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

If we're doing this by how many people vote for f'cking awful parties, then Russia is a lot worse in this (UR+CPRF+LD+Rod.)

(And now I hate myself for mentioning Russia in a BRTD thread)

I'm talking about in real elections, not sham ones.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Absolutely bizarre that BRTD now has an obsession with the Communist Party of Greece....

Apparently he is unaware of the history of Europe under the resistance against Fascism and Nazi occupation, where the Communists were actually the Freedom Fighters that actually stayed and fought back, instead of fleeing to their comfortable villas elsewhere in "Free Europe"....

So by this standard, the legacy Communist parties of France, Italy, Spain, and Portugal are now also a bunch of murderous thugs, as opposed to the collaborators and Fascists within these respective countries?

It's extremely easy to create a fake more equivalency using the political standards and values of 2016 America without any understand or realization of the historical context of the countries and origins of the political Left, and why there are still vestiges of the Euro-Communist movement of the '50s-70s...

Jesus Christus.... Greece was a Fascist dictatorship at the time when my mother and father were marching against the Vietnam war out of college in the late '60s....

Typical BRTD epic fail post.....

First of all, LOL at the idea I don't know anything of communist resistance in WWII.

Second of all that's literally the same type of argument Oldiesfreak makes.

Third of all for not criticizing fascists I mentioned Golden Dawn in that very post.

And fourthly LOL at the KKE being "Eurocommunist". As noted they are actual Stalinists.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No. Unfortunately, I think those parties could get a similar percentage in a lot of countries.

Just for one example, I believe that the Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada received 0.05% at the last election.

And that's because the political landscape in Canada is different, not because Canadians are inherently better people.

Exactly. Canada/America/Britain would have a completely different set of parties if they had proportional representation

But the New Communist Party of the Netherlands got about the same. The Communist Party of Sweden usually gets only a three digit number of votes.

Besides how much do you think a communist party would get in Canada if Canada used PR? I have a feeling itd be closer to 0.05% than 5.6%.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

BRTD just further proves that he is a simplistic bigot.

Being against Nazis and communists is bigoted?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Absolutely bizarre that BRTD now has an obsession with the Communist Party of Greece....

Apparently he is unaware of the history of Europe under the resistance against Fascism and Nazi occupation, where the Communists were actually the Freedom Fighters that actually stayed and fought back, instead of fleeing to their comfortable villas elsewhere in "Free Europe"....

So by this standard, the legacy Communist parties of France, Italy, Spain, and Portugal are now also a bunch of murderous thugs, as opposed to the collaborators and Fascists within these respective countries?

It's extremely easy to create a fake more equivalency using the political standards and values of 2016 America without any understand or realization of the historical context of the countries and origins of the political Left, and why there are still vestiges of the Euro-Communist movement of the '50s-70s...

Jesus Christus.... Greece was a Fascist dictatorship at the time when my mother and father were marching against the Vietnam war out of college in the late '60s....

Typical BRTD epic fail post.....

First of all, LOL at the idea I don't know anything of communist resistance in WWII.

Second of all that's literally the same type of argument Oldiesfreak makes.

Third of all for not criticizing fascists I mentioned Golden Dawn in that very post.

And fourthly LOL at the KKE being "Eurocommunist". As noted they are actual Stalinists.

1.) My apologies for implying that you are unaware of the history of the KKE and the tens of thousands of lives lost in resistance against Fascism/Nazism and the local Fascist collaborators. Obviously then, you are also aware that after the Liberation of Greece in '44, that the US and UK opposed free elections in Greece, and British troops opened fire on a mass protest in Athens that triggered the Greek Civil War in December of '44.

The aftermath of the Greek Civil War, was extreme repression of the Left, including over 3,000 murders of Communist Party members, 100,000 people forced into detention centers or exile, and massive rape, physical and property violence.

Of course, as a freedom loving individual, you no doubt support the critical role that the KKE played in the resistance against the military Junta of '67 installed by the same puppet dictator that the Brits and CIA installed under a reign of bloodshed back in '44....

Not sure if have ever watched the movie "Z", but if so I would certainly recommend it, since apparently you are a keen follower of Greek Politics and History.

2.) Haven't seen OldiesFreak post on this thread, so I'll pass and check on his posts maybe on the International Elections thread, since I have no comment nor involvement in that debate to date.

3.) I don't believe I ever said anything about you "not criticizing Fascists", what I did say was a false moral equivalency between Neo-Nazi and Fascist street gangs murdering and assaulting people at will in the cities, towns, villages, and rural areas of Greece (With a nod-nod wink-wink from their Fascist political overlords), versus a political party that gave up the armed struggle and resistance as part of the post Junta Democratic era.... despite that hundreds of thousands of KKE party members faced systematic discrimination in employment, criminal records not lifted, etc until 1989!!!!

4.) The PCF and PCI in France and Italy respectively were considered Euro-Communist in the 1970s, despite both political parties still technically having "Marxism-Leninism" as part of their party platforms. Although the PCI did split off earlier from taking their dictates from Moscow and the Kremlin, the PCF was a "Stalinist" Party and even entertained Erich Honecker a short period of time before the Berlin Wall collapsed as a result of mass demonstrations in Leipzig, and one of my favorite neighborhoods in Berlin, Prenzlauer Berg, where I lived for four months shortly after the fall of the Berlin wall.

It's easy to sling around terms like "Stalinist" and "Marxist-Leninist", and although the KKE is not necessarily "reconstructed Communists" of the PCI late '80s variety or the PCF of the early '90s, you are really setting up a strawman using emotionally loaded terms for maximum rhetorical effects, but dude your original posting title set it up that way....

For the record, I have always found you an extremely interesting and versatile poster over the past eight years I have been on the Forum, so not a hater, but got to call out what I see especially if it involves somehow a comparison between legitimate Left-Wing political parties with a long history of fighting back against Fascism and a political party that that is part of the new Euro-Fascist "stealth movement" to mainstream Fascist ideology. .

Although you didn't mention it, I'm sure we both agree that the KKE's party platform on LGBT issues is backwards, opposition to the Civil Rights Partnership bill proposed by SYRIZA, but just like the Democratic Party in the United State only a few years back, this will undoubtedly change in the very near future, as younger activists defect to alternative Left-Wing parties and convince their aging parents and grandparents that really this is the right thing to do, and that political ideology is more than just based on economic doctrine but also the New Social Movements are part of a comprehensive platform in coalition with other political parties to move forward on social & economic policy based upon the concept of "Peace, Freedom, and Equality".

1) Well yeah. Now what does that have to do with voting for Stalin lovers today?
2) Oldiesfreak keeps raving about how the Democrats were the party of slavery and more opposed the Civil Rights Act than Republicans. That has zero relevance today. He seems to think it does, and is the only person who does. Voting for Stalinists because of events in the WWII when the Democrats were the party of segregationists is just as logical.3
3) The point is that both are godawful genocidal thugs. Golden Dawn are causing more problems now, sure, but the KKE would engage in genocide if they ever somehow took power. As for the latter part, uh, not really bothered. I wouldn't want to hire people who support Stalinist gulags and the NKVD either.
4) Well yeah, "Eurocommunism" was largely a sham in general. That's why I don't support any communist parties like the ones you mentioned. Still point remains, KKE is a party full of people who think Stalin was a good man, and would've been just as friendly to Erich Hoeckner too if the issue came up. There is simply no way in f[inks]ing hell to justify that.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

4) Well yeah, "Eurocommunism" was largely a sham in general.

What the hell do you mean by that? A sham against whom? Was Berlinguer playing 12-dimensional chess when he went to Moscow and praised democracy in a speech (whose text had been rejected) to a bunch of Soviet apparatchiks? Tell me, what were his true goals?

Al kind of summarized it well here:

You'd figure Gustaf would at least be familiar with Eurocommunism.

Familiar enough to know that it was a sham? By the time the "idea" was dreamed up, the PCI was well on the (extremely long) road to becoming a standard-issue European Socialist/Social Democratic (use whatever term thee be more comfortable with) party, while the Iberian parties were slowly drifting away into irrelevence and the PCF (led by a man who would have made a better comedian than a politician) was busy sowing the seeds of it's own dramatic electoral destruction.
And I seem to recall reading that some Soviet money was used to help it on it's way, but that might just be libel.

The wiki article on it is sh*t, btw.

And he did make a point once that despite such window dressing as you describe above, such parties never really broke with the Soviet Union.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So...high unemployment would make you a Nazi or Stalinist?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Did the US have more than a tenth of the population being a Nazi or Stalinist in 2008?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

BRTD, I'm interested to know what about Greece, if not its historical, political, cultural, and economic circumstances, you think leads to these good results for extremist parties.

The point isn't so much those, but the fact you'd have to be pretty horrible to support such a party regardless of any circumstances.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

BRTD, I'm interested to know what about Greece, if not its historical, political, cultural, and economic circumstances, you think leads to these good results for extremist parties.

The point isn't so much those, but the fact you'd have to be pretty horrible to support such a party regardless of any circumstances.

Okay...? I don't know what you're trying to demonstrate. Why do you think Greece has such a high concentration of these people? Is it something in the water?

Greece having some reason for them being higher doesn't let them off the hook for being terrible though. That's my point. Some Trump supporter in a rural southern county that gave him ~80% isn't off the hook either for being terrible.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

BRTD, I'm interested to know what about Greece, if not its historical, political, cultural, and economic circumstances, you think leads to these good results for extremist parties.

The point isn't so much those, but the fact you'd have to be pretty horrible to support such a party regardless of any circumstances.

Okay...? I don't know what you're trying to demonstrate. Why do you think Greece has such a high concentration of these people? Is it something in the water?

Greece having some reason for them being higher doesn't let them off the hook for being terrible though. That's my point. Some Trump supporter in a rural southern county that gave him ~80% isn't off the hook either for being terrible.

Middle-class hipster unwilling to let people who have been through sh*t all their lives "off the hook": ALL LIBERAL ALL THE TIME!

I don't exactly see a contradiction there. Do hardcore liberals usually tolerate people with radically different views from theirs? See: protests and picketing against and even vandalism of Mormon and Catholic churches after the passage of Prop 8 (for just one example)

And FYI the logic doesn't even apply here, since most Golden Dawn and KKE voters aren't unemployed. The "unemployed angry youth" were all voting SYRZIA.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And really if you moved those Greek voters to other countries that don't have strong Nazi or communist parties they'd no doubt still vote for terrible parties, like in the Netherlands and Sweden example Golden Dawn voters would obviously all vote for PVV and Sweden Democrats while the KKE voters would still vote for inane antiquated parties like Socialistische Partij and Vänsterpartiet.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

See: protests and picketing against and even vandalism of Mormon and Catholic churches after the passage of Prop 8 (for just one example)

...and you think that's a good thing?

The vandalism, no. The protests, yes.