If BRTD lived in Northern Ireland...

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Green, I guess.

But he thinks that the Green Party is made up of closeted fascists.

No that's the American Green Party. I actually like the Greens in countries like Germany, Austria and the Netherlands, though the UK Greens aren't as much of a serious party.

To answer the question, Alliance.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Also I really like NI21

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

How does Sinn From have three votes?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Not sure how this effects how I'd be in Northern Ireland, but my ancestry is 1/4 Catholic.

Truthfully this was a big cause in my annoyance at treating Catholic like a race instead of a chosen trait, since some people here have actually tried to apply Northern Ireland standards on that to the US, which is downright absurd (a big part of why I got on Gully so much when he started posting) and doing that is kind of the inevitable conclusion from believing that "cultural Catholicism" is still a big thing in the modern day US. Also my talk about how Millennials don't care about culture is largely based off the fact that Millennials in the US DON'T operate that way and don't see being from a Catholic or Protestant (or in the Midwest even Jewish) background to be that big of a deal or separate and distinctive cultures. That might admittedly be a misinterpretation of what people mean by "culture", especially with the points brought up in that thread, but as I sarcastically quipped to ingemann here, the idea that Catholicism forms a separate and distinct culture in the US separate from the mainstream white culture that I'm a part of is pretty silly. It also reminds me of why I posted that Santander post in the GPG earlier, it's because (and remember the type of people I am likely to hang out with), I don't know ANYONE who is proud to have been raised Catholic or considers that a key part of their identity. Not saying that they're all angry and bitter either, most just seem to regard it as something that happened but no longer is relevant to who they are.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

...Do people not realize that BRTD's views on Catholicism and Ireland?

Seriously. At least Alliance has a plurality (and it's who I voted for.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There's also a liberal wing of the UUP (like Sylvia Hermon) but it's tough to see myself as a part of that today. Maybe like 20 years ago.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Waiy, the party he'd probably support most in NI would be Cannabis Is Safer Than Alcohol (which is weirdly well organised there).

It is interesting to wonder how would get a lower preference by brtd: sinn fein or Dup/tuv?

I wouldn't pref any of them.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

But anyway Alliance while moderate heroes doesn't really bother me in this context. I just find Catholicism repugnant theologically and am simply not capable of separating the "culture" from that. And the DUP are obviously repugnant too. So Alliance as a de facto Protestant party that aren't insane like them is the most logical choice.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

But anyway Alliance while moderate heroes doesn't really bother me in this context. I just find Catholicism Islam repugnant theologically and am simply not capable of separating the "culture" from that.

How Lovely.

"Sure, I vote moderate hero, but it's OK because I'm a bigot!"

It's bigoted to oppose discrimination against women and homosexuals?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

But anyway Alliance while moderate heroes doesn't really bother me in this context. I just find Catholicism Islam repugnant theologically and am simply not capable of separating the "culture" from that.

How Lovely.

"Sure, I vote moderate hero, but it's OK because I'm a bigot!"

It's bigoted to oppose discrimination against women and homosexuals?

LOL!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/irish-gay-marriage-referendum-gerry-adams-says-its-a-huge-day-for-equality-10272161.html

I don't give a f[inks] what a terrorist who has at least ordered the deaths of people if not killed them himself believes about gay marriage, but the fact is, I simply am not willing to affiliate with an organization as reactionary as the Catholic Church under any circumstances. It's a violation of my core principles, and I place that and my liberal values far higher than "heritage" or "culture" or any stuff like that. I don't know why that's such a bizarre concept to so many really (especially since it's hardly only me who's like that.)

But anyway Alliance while moderate heroes doesn't really bother me in this context. I just find Catholicism Islam repugnant theologically and am simply not capable of separating the "culture" from that.

How Lovely.

"Sure, I vote moderate hero, but it's OK because I'm a bigot!"

It's bigoted to oppose discrimination against women and homosexuals?

I hate the Catholic Church and its reactionary views, but Catholicism is more of a cultural thing in Ireland. And most places to be honest.

Then thank God I've never lived in such a place! Although I have to say if the range of places where that isn't true goes from as conservative as western North Dakota to as liberal as Minneapolis, then it must not be too odd or uncommon.

Northern Ireland BRTD would probably be an Orange Parade type DUPer and NI Presbyterian culture would have replaced his hipsterdom.

BRTD in his current state would have to either vote Alliance or PUP, though PUP are pretty crazy, so he'd have to overlook his anti-Catholicism and vote for the generic liberal party that is ambivalent on the Cath/Prot thing. SDLP is way to Catholic trade-unionish of a brand of leftism to be remotely attractive to BRTD and is nothing close to All Liberal all the Time.

1-I have 1/4 Catholic ancestry.
2-But it's well regarded that Alliance are a de facto Protestant party, just like the Republicans are a de facto white party in a sense.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Because that's the situation in North Ireland, and Ian Paisley and his church, along with protestants, are the liberal ones.

That's why I wouldn't vote for them, but the liberal Protestants, Alliance.

If anyone said that against Islam, he would no doubt be called a bigot

Actually if someone criticized Islam for conservative views on women and gays I wouldn't mind at all or call them a bigot.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Because that's the situation in North Ireland, and Ian Paisley and his church, along with protestants, are the liberal ones.

That's why I wouldn't vote for them, but the liberal Protestants, Alliance.

If anyone said that against Islam, he would no doubt be called a bigot

Actually if someone criticized Islam for conservative views on women and gays I wouldn't mind at all or call them a bigot.

You Imply that you don't vote for Sinn Fein or hell the SDLP, because the reactionary nature of their politics, due to their association with Catholicism, with them otherwise being a left-wing, why is that not the case with voting for Alliance, because of their association with Protestantism.

Because I'm Protestant. I won't ever be a Catholic because the Catholic Church is reactionary and I won't be a Paisley style Protestant because they are so reactionary.

Since when is the Allance a protestant party?

I said de facto. They're effectively a unionist party even if not designated as such.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'll also note that the very premise of "cultural Catholicism" and the idea that by simply of virtue of having been raised Catholic gives you a connection to everyone else who was is actually pretty similar to the fundamentals of Hindutva.

But ultimately my concern here is basically just one of individual freedom. If someone who was raised Catholic wishes to no longer identify as Catholic anymore for any reason (like so many I know), then they should be allowed to do so and not still shoved into a "culturally Catholic" box. That's a very offensive way of thinking. As I've said before some of my church's pastors and active leaders were raised Catholic. They're not Catholic today. Period.

...and for the record I would also say the same thing about "cultural Protestantism" which is why I've really soured on Ulster unionism lately (and the realization that it is just another form of nationalism) which means that Alliance, while moderate heroes, are still the most logical and anti-nationalist choice.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'll also note that the very premise of "cultural Catholicism" and the idea that by simply of virtue of having been raised Catholic gives you a connection to everyone else who was is actually pretty similar to the fundamentals of Hindutva.

The problem with Hindutva is that it's exclusionary and totalizing, not that it acknowledges that religion and culture shape each other. The very premise of 'the destruction and annihilation of culture in the US' and the idea that progressive submersion of ethnocultural minorities into a generic American whiteness internally differentiated only by consumption habit-based subcultures and trends should be celebrated and even hastened is also similar to certain fundamentals of Hindutva, just not the same ones. And also to certain fundamentals of Maoism, which I'm never going to let go.

1-"destruction and annihilation of culture" is a quote from a song.
2-I think what people tend to be missing is that I don't consider "culture" very important and that subculture is a far greater unifier and identifier. The example I used in one such thread was my namesake, where the vocalist of the band has a very Italian last name, but he goes to a hipster church in San Diego, not a Catholic one, and is clearly very deep into scene subculture. So who does he have more in common with, me or Keystone Phil? The idea that simply being an Italian-American means that he's closer to people like that than people who share the subculture is absurd. The idea that some pasty whitebread person from a middle class Midwest background who was raised Catholic has more in common with all other people raised Catholic than someone in the same subculture is so f[inks]ing inane I can't even put it into words. So essentially the "destruction and annihilation of culture" is simply that the subculture is displacing it.

(and there's nothing visible about being raised Catholic, but look at those guys' arms!)

You must be logged in to read this quote.

And that's fine. But you've, in the past, heavily implied that it's somehow wrong or bad for people like SMilo or a number of other posters I can think of to maintain cultural and emotional links to Catholicism. Other than your preexisting anti-Catholicism--an extension of your odd reversal of what most people understand by 'mixing religion and politics', wherein your political views dictate your theology rather than the other way around--there's no good reason why you would think this, based on what you've just said here.

I think what you go to understand is (won't hold back or mince words here) the Minneapolis-St. Paul Archdiocese is terrible. It's not just into socon activism but seems to see that as it's main reason for being. It's the sort of place that sent priests to pray over the legislature discussing the gay marriage ban amendment and counter-protest the protesters and also tried to recruit people from churches for counter-protests and protests against passing the marriage equality bill. I saw this documentary on Pride weekend and it was the main antagonist of it and most demonized institution. And the sub-dioceses (see rest of Minnesota and Dakotas) are perhaps even worse because they know they can get away with far more. Even as a kid growing up I could easily see that the Catholic Church of Bismarck, ND was one ugly, awful, disgusting, hatemongering institution.

And really, is the idea that many people prioritize their progressive values and politics over their culture and heritage really that bizarre? Some seem to think that it is.

(and there's a ton of other factors in the Midwest that have been discussed before but that I think some people just are incapable of understanding, such as that the number of Catholics here is too large to be see as exotic but also too small to be a dominant part of the culture, that Catholics are virtually indistinguishable in terms of sociological and economic status from Protestants, that the region is so integrated in terms of ethnicity that virtually no one is from somewhere that's almost all Catholic or has almost no Catholics at all, and that because of those factors mixed marriages are so common virtually no one has an extended family that's all Catholic or all Protestant. The end result is a very diluted culture that no one is particularly attached to.)

...what I don't understand is why some people see that as a negative and think the US should be MORE like Northern Ireland than this.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

...you didn't realize that Ulster Unionism was a form of nationalism before?!

You don't really see it in the US, and I found Irish-American nationalism pretty awful in ways that ranged from either really obnoxious to downright sickening (aka thinking that praising terrorists and people who fundraised for them made them real badass edgelords.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm about as baffled that BRTD thinks it's uncomplicatedly a good thing for subcultures based on consumption habits to replace subcultures based on family ties as he is that people want the United States to be more like Northern Ireland. (I'm not one of these people, by the way, because Northern Ireland and the Upper Midwest aren't the only options here.)

Personal freedom. You can't choose what you're born into but you can choose your subculture. Also it's not fair to expect people to marry only within their culture of birth.

But in terms of a church I don't see how any Christian could argue that having one where the uniting factor is what people actually believe instead of whatever country their ancestors cane from generations ago. And I mean come on, what did Paul write about this?

Still do you agree that any scene Italian-American has more in common with me than some stereotypical Staten Island

I'm also perfectly aware that plenty of people develop their religious commitments around their preestablished political views; I just don't think that's somehow less tribal than doing it the other way around.

I'm not denying that,  I just found it odd that some people like Gully and BelgianSocialist found this baffling and incomprehensible.

(I'll point out that even "the other way around" one's religious convictions are not necessarily going to be whatever they were raised in.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Of course it's best for a church to be oriented around what people actually believe, but it's sort of nice when both coincide.

Mmmmm, no. For one, let's be honest here, if someone like me started talking about "people of my background", even if it not intended that way, it would sound like a euphemism for "white" and a way of saying "no non-whites welcome". (Not that my church isn't overwhelmingly white as it is, but that's not by any type of design of course.)

But besides that...why would it be "sort of nice" for me to go to a church that was mostly people of German/Swedish descent anyway? What makes me closer and able to relate to them better than people of Norwegian or Czech descent? Or hell even people of stereotypically Catholic ancestries like Irish or Italian, which as I've noted many people from that have no problem converting over?

But seriously, the idea that this should be a factor AT ALL strikes me as waaaay too similar to far right thinking at worst, and incredibly pointless at best.

But on the other hand, in terms of people of a south Minneapolis style countercultural "hipster" mindset, yeah it's easy to see why I would be able to relate to people of that far more. And that matters WAY more than ethnic background, someone that you even basically admitted above.

So you vote Alliance because of your religion, but not Republican because it's more comfortable with your race?

I choose my religion. I do not choose my race. Also I don't believe the Republicans are more comfortable with my race so much as that many whites are simply morons.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What I'm trying to impress upon you is that there aren't two binary 'sides', BRTD, where you can only understand yourself based on either where you come from or what kind of crap you're most liable to allow the culture industry to sell you. Do I strike you as someone who's entirely uninterested in anything and has no subcultural commitments other than being Italian-American? Does the Italian-American goth girl I'm friends with on tumblr who lovingly describes her family life as being like a sitcom directed by Francis Ford Coppola? Do the Jewish comp-sci/anime nerds I hung out with in undergrad?

And as I've told you multiple times before, wanting everybody to assimilate into a generic American whiteness is also similar to certain types of right-wing thinking, as you should have realized some time around the point in the other thread where you triumphantly used 'ethnically American' white conservadems in places like West Virginia voting for Bernie Sanders as an example of the 'completely assimilated, detached from their heritage and ancestries, white people' you love so dear. Ideally neither of us would be using 'is superficially similar to certain types of right-wing thinking' as a gotcha, because that's absolutely ridiculous, but you did first, so.

To answer your first paragraph, no. But I don't see how it's debatable that depth of involvement in subcultures usually tends to cloud a born cultural identity. Hell I know ethnically Jewish people like you describe, but unless they're actually a religious Jew too all of them have zero interest in Jewish traditions and practices. And in my specific subculture since the progressive politics are such an integral part of it, anyone involved rejects any cultural aspects that contradict that. So no Catholicism on any level. My main thing is I've never understood why anyone found this perplexing or strange, seeing as how ~40% of Americans raised Catholic today reject not only religious Catholicism but any type of Catholic identity for themselves either. It's so common that treating it like a strange fluke that only a handful of people do or even something where it's not so uncommon that it's unlikely you know no one who falls into that category but that overwhelmingly it's not the rule makes no sense, especially amongst Millennials.

I'll point out by the way that if you take the attitudes expressed by the Irish posters and apply them to American public figures, things become downright inane. It makes no sense whatsoever to hold that Keith Ellison, Sarah Palin, Mark Driscoll or Katharine Jefferts Schori are actually Catholics because of "cultural" reasons.

And honestly, I just can't comprehend the implication that I am somehow closer to people who share my ethnic background than those that aren't. Like what the hell is Swedish/German-American culture anyway? And why on Earth should I care how many people at my church share that background? To me this JUST MAKES NO SENSE.

Now for the second paragraph, let me clear up that I don't want everyone to assimilate into generic whiteness. I want everyone to just be able to take their own path and identify as they choose, based on their interests and what they like. I mean, one can't deny that while metalheads and people in my hardcore scene are both very stripped of ethnic identities and cultures, that the sub-cultures are similar at all.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

1. I'd really appreciate a source on that 40% statistic.
2. I'm just trying to get you to understand why somebody would trust their own family more than the culture industry.

Also, you and I know very different types of Jews, but we knew that already.

1. It's from a Pew Survey: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/chapter-2-religious-switching-and-intermarriage
According to it, 31.7% of Americans were raised Catholic, and 12.9% claim to have left Catholicism. 12.9/31.7 = 40.7%

2. Your family is one thing. People who just happen to belong to the same ethnic group (and how many Americans' families are only one ethnicity anyway?) as you who may not even live in the same state as your family is a whole other. I'm still not seeing any reason why other Swedish/Germans at church should be even a low priority for me. And I'm sure even you'd agree considering those four that I mentioned (the fact that I basically included two who are "good" and two who are "bad" isn't an accident) to be Catholic in any way on the basis of "culture" even is downright inane.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

1. I'd really appreciate a source on that 40% statistic.
2. I'm just trying to get you to understand why somebody would trust their own family more than the culture industry.

Also, you and I know very different types of Jews, but we knew that already.

1. It's from a Pew Survey: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/chapter-2-religious-switching-and-intermarriage
According to it, 31.7% of Americans were raised Catholic, and 12.9% claim to have left Catholicism. 12.9/31.7 = 40.7%

I'm not convinced this demonstrates what you think it demonstrates, because of differences in what one might mean by 'leaving Catholicism'. A lot of formerly-Catholic atheists are dangerously obsessed with their upbringing--with elaborately rejecting it or with overtly trying to substitute other things for it or both--and the Episcopal Church is lousy with people who are there specifically and solely because it's the closest they can get to Catholicism while still having their political standpoints catered to (which is simultaneously the main reason why I'm still there and the main reason why I'm considering leaving). It's certainly true that cultural Catholicism as a strong identifying factor has declined precipitously in recent years but I still think you're reading into the statistic.

Trying to count said atheists as still Catholic is exactly the sort of thing I'm speaking against, and I think you're greatly overestimating the percentage of converts to some other form of Christianity who are Episcopalian. Also my original point was primarily about Millennials, a group for whom "cultural Catholicism" is virtually meaningless. I can assure you that won't find many people who'd call themselves "culturally Catholic" at Bernie Sanders rallies a few months ago or today out walking around catching Pokemon out on the streets.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Everybody's family is different, BRTD. (Nice set of examples, by the way! Very well done, very nice spectrum. I'm not being sarcastic.)

...once again, people who happen to share ancestry from the same country as you are not your family. You STILL have yet to explain why I should care about if someone has Swedish/German ancestry and seek out to associate with those that do.

Actually you probably saw this on Facebook lately since everyone is resharing it now, THIS is basically what I mean by "the destruction and annihilation of culture". (And how Millennials are now going crazy over it continues to show that Millennials do not care about their heritage or whatever culture they were raised in.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

1. I think you're forgetting that many people who convert don't really convert to anything in particular, "Just Christian - denomination is not important" is a pretty common ID amongst many Americans. Including our current President might I add. And tons of people do convert from Catholicism to essentially that. That's also just how basically every person at an emergent church would identify themselves as. There's a Keith Ellison quote that sums this up (as he currently doesn't identify with any sect or branch of Islam.)

You must be logged in to read this quote.

2. But even your last sentence admits that they are so rare that people like oakvale and belgiansocialist should perhaps not act so shocked that people who aren't like that exist. oakvale once freaked out in IRC over the fact that some churches in the US baptize adults who were already baptized as babies.
3a. I live in South Minneapolis. Japan-obsessed white anime nerds do not faze me or shock me in the slightest. A Millennial Italian-American who actually cares about that aspect of their identity probably would.
3b. One thing the Midwest does have is hordes of mixed Catholic/Lutheran marriages (I'm actually from one myself in terms of upbringing), yet unless someone from one is an actual TJ-like Catholic it's pretty rare to find someone who'll prioritize the Catholic side even if that's what they were raised in. This might have to do with that Lutheranism is actually pretty distinct and associated with the region while Catholicism is simply seen as boring and generic by most people here because it's not. Which is a perfectly understandable explanation even within your parameters, but does kind of kill the idea that Catholicism is just soooo culturally distinct and sticky it always wins out in terms of mixed backgrounds that some have argued and bore once tried to sell me on in AAD.
3c. All the woman pastors and guest speakers I've seen at church have been awesome (we're actually in a five-week series now consisting of five different guest speakers who just happen to all be women) and not allowing them to fulfill the roles they have would be a crime. No amount of "culture" could ever make that up for me. So for that reason alone (there's hordes of others obviously) I could never fit in a Catholic church no matter what my family's ethnic background is.
4. You should watch it anyway.
5a. The music I like can't be defined as "popular" by any rational standard.
5b. It's not just the music. It's a scene that goes far beyond that. In addition to the progressive SJW-style politics I've talked about a lot there's lots of things that are indeed cultural traditions that only people in this subculture would understand at all. Try explaining the significance of colored vinyl to someone outside the scene, or why you'll spend big money on rare out of print records on ebay you could just download for free anyway (often even legally) or why people are willing to host shows in their own houses that they don't make a profit off.
5c. The old night shift supervisor at the CVS store closest to me is someone I've noticed for quite awhile, since she has both of her arms covered in tattoos to her wrists (which is not unusual for here of course), but we've been talking the last couple weeks mostly because I work for a branch of CVS now too and she's recognized me around the neighborhood. But I saw her on the 4th of July weekend at a local fest (basically the Minneapolis scene's biggest event of the year) and we started talking more. Hence she told me this week she's leaving this store, moving to another one and then wrote her name on the back of my receipt so I could add her on Facebook and let me know of some of the upcoming shows she's going to. She's not just someone who rings up my hygiene products and cleaning supplies, this is a big thing we share in common. And it's far more important than whatever her ethnic background is (which based on her last name is at least partially Swedish but that doesn't tell you a whole lot here where just about everyone is mixed.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

1. I think you're forgetting that many people who convert don't really convert to anything in particular, "Just Christian - denomination is not important" is a pretty common ID amongst many Americans. Including our current President might I add. And tons of people do convert from Catholicism to essentially that. That's also just how basically every person at an emergent church would identify themselves as. There's a Keith Ellison quote that sums this up (as he currently doesn't identify with any sect or branch of Islam.)

You must be logged in to read this quote.

2. But even your last sentence admits that they are so rare that people like oakvale and belgiansocialist should perhaps not act so shocked that people who aren't like that exist. oakvale once freaked out in IRC over the fact that some churches in the US baptize adults who were already baptized as babies.
3a. I live in South Minneapolis. Japan-obsessed white anime nerds do not faze me or shock me in the slightest. A Millennial Italian-American who actually cares about that aspect of their identity probably would.
3b. One thing the Midwest does have is hordes of mixed Catholic/Lutheran marriages (I'm actually from one myself in terms of upbringing), yet unless someone from one is an actual TJ-like Catholic it's pretty rare to find someone who'll prioritize the Catholic side even if that's what they were raised in. This might have to do with that Lutheranism is actually pretty distinct and associated with the region while Catholicism is simply seen as boring and generic by most people here because it's not. Which is a perfectly understandable explanation even within your parameters, but does kind of kill the idea that Catholicism is just soooo culturally distinct and sticky it always wins out in terms of mixed backgrounds that some have argued and bore once tried to sell me on in AAD.
3c. All the woman pastors and guest speakers I've seen at church have been awesome (we're actually in a five-week series now consisting of five different guest speakers who just happen to all be women) and not allowing them to fulfill the roles they have would be a crime. No amount of "culture" could ever make that up for me. So for that reason alone (there's hordes of others obviously) I could never fit in a Catholic church no matter what my family's ethnic background is.
4. You should watch it anyway.
5a. The music I like can't be defined as "popular" by any rational standard.
5b. It's not just the music. It's a scene that goes far beyond that. In addition to the progressive SJW-style politics I've talked about a lot there's lots of things that are indeed cultural traditions that only people in this subculture would understand at all. Try explaining the significance of colored vinyl to someone outside the scene, or why you'll spend big money on rare out of print records on ebay you could just download for free anyway (often even legally) or why people are willing to host shows in their own houses that they don't make a profit off.
5c. The old night shift supervisor at the CVS store closest to me is someone I've noticed for quite awhile, since she has both of her arms covered in tattoos to her wrists (which is not unusual for here of course), but we've been talking the last couple weeks mostly because I work for a branch of CVS now too and she's recognized me around the neighborhood. But I saw her on the 4th of July weekend at a local fest (basically the Minneapolis scene's biggest event of the year) and we started talking more. Hence she told me this week she's leaving this store, moving to another one and then wrote her name on the back of my receipt so I could add her on Facebook and let me know of some of the upcoming shows she's going to. She's not just someone who rings up my hygiene products and cleaning supplies, this is a big thing we share in common. And it's far more important than whatever her ethnic background is (which based on her last name is at least partially Swedish but that doesn't tell you a whole lot here where just about everyone is mixed.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

1. I think you're forgetting that many people who convert don't really convert to anything in particular, "Just Christian - denomination is not important" is a pretty common ID amongst many Americans. Including our current President might I add. And tons of people do convert from Catholicism to essentially that. That's also just how basically every person at an emergent church would identify themselves as. There's a Keith Ellison quote that sums this up (as he currently doesn't identify with any sect or branch of Islam.)

You must be logged in to read this quote.

2. But even your last sentence admits that they are so rare that people like oakvale and belgiansocialist should perhaps not act so shocked that people who aren't like that exist. oakvale once freaked out in IRC over the fact that some churches in the US baptize adults who were already baptized as babies.
3a. I live in South Minneapolis. Japan-obsessed white anime nerds do not faze me or shock me in the slightest. A Millennial Italian-American who actually cares about that aspect of their identity probably would.
3b. One thing the Midwest does have is hordes of mixed Catholic/Lutheran marriages (I'm actually from one myself in terms of upbringing), yet unless someone from one is an actual TJ-like Catholic it's pretty rare to find someone who'll prioritize the Catholic side even if that's what they were raised in. This might have to do with that Lutheranism is actually pretty distinct and associated with the region while Catholicism is simply seen as boring and generic by most people here because it's not. Which is a perfectly understandable explanation even within your parameters, but does kind of kill the idea that Catholicism is just soooo culturally distinct and sticky it always wins out in terms of mixed backgrounds that some have argued and bore once tried to sell me on in AAD.
3c. All the woman pastors and guest speakers I've seen at church have been awesome (we're actually in a five-week series now consisting of five different guest speakers who just happen to all be women) and not allowing them to fulfill the roles they have would be a crime. No amount of "culture" could ever make that up for me. So for that reason alone (there's hordes of others obviously) I could never fit in a Catholic church no matter what my family's ethnic background is.
4. You should watch it anyway.
5a. The music I like can't be defined as "popular" by any rational standard.
5b. It's not just the music. It's a scene that goes far beyond that. In addition to the progressive SJW-style politics I've talked about a lot there's lots of things that are indeed cultural traditions that only people in this subculture would understand at all. Try explaining the significance of colored vinyl to someone outside the scene, or why you'll spend big money on rare out of print records on ebay you could just download for free anyway (often even legally) or why people are willing to host shows in their own houses that they don't make a profit off.
5c. The old night shift supervisor at the CVS store closest to me is someone I've noticed for quite awhile, since she has both of her arms covered in tattoos to her wrists (which is not unusual for here of course), but we've been talking the last couple weeks mostly because I work for a branch of CVS now too and she's recognized me around the neighborhood. But I saw her on the 4th of July weekend at a local fest (basically the Minneapolis scene's biggest event of the year) and we started talking more. Hence she told me this week she's leaving this store, moving to another one and then wrote her name on the back of my receipt so I could add her on Facebook and let me know of some of the upcoming shows she's going to. She's not just someone who rings up my hygiene products and cleaning supplies, this is a big thing we share in common. And it's far more important than whatever her ethnic background is (which based on her last name is at least partially Swedish but that doesn't tell you a whole lot here where just about everyone is mixed.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Just something that I thought of after today when realizing that truth is in most churches a 20something woman with tattoos going completely down both her arms and who wants to preach in a tank top and pre-torn jeans wouldn't be able to speak, so it's great she has one where she was able to have the opportunity....

How is preferring to have a community of mostly Millennials different from one of people of a similar shared ethnic background? After all the reasoning in being able to relate to people more actually applies far more to ages...

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Btw, I meant 'popular music' as distinct from folk music and art music, not as in 'music that is popular'.

Uh, have you ever heard mewithoutYou?

But anyway, a recent realization that I will admit is that my Upper Midwest upbringing did in fact shape a lot of my identity. I don't deny that. However that would be also just as true if I was raised Jewish or Catholic....and it is also true for the vast majority of people raised Jewish or Catholic here.

Also (and I probably should've pointed this out a long time ago) there are tons of Catholics and raised Catholics here that have literally the exact same ancestry proportions that I do. The idea that Catholicism is only tied to some very distinct ethnicities is a premise I've also found downright absurd. While we're at it the name "Tim Kaine" doesn't exactly scream "ETHNIC" either.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well, yeah, the idea that Catholicism is somehow limited to certain ethnicities is...odd. Was it smilo who was saying a while back that German Catholics aren't 'real Catholics' because you don't think 'Catholic culture' when you think 'Germany'? That was ridiculous.

But what separates such a person who leaves the church from a person not raised Catholic? That's why I find premise it's such a distinct identity that no one EVER really drops no matter what they believe to be so silly, and why it's not "like being Jewish" in an oft-made comparison as an actual Jewish ethnicity exists (and if course many people who are ethnic Jews don't view it as the total defining cornerstone of who they are either but that's a whole other point.)