Is leftism pro-Islam?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

f**ck no. I can't believe there are still people here who think leftists are Islam-lovers when I get bashed by right wingers all the time for what I say about Islam-and it ain't positive! Who was it who supported arming the Muslim terrorist trash in Afghanistan? Not the left!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

that is true. Osama bin Laden is definately a right winger. He sure as hell isn't a social liberal. And he's a multimillionaire who made his profits through capitalism. And he has called socialists "infidels".

Osama bin Laden is a far right winger.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No.  There are very few things that must come in the package of "being from the left", and one's opinion of Islam is not one of them.  Debate would be a lot more productive if we stopped telling other people what they believe and instead discussed what they actually believe.

tell that to dazzleman.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I think that for most leftists, anti-Americanism trumps everything else.  For that reason alone, many leftists have a sympathy for Islam, despite the fact that they abhor most of the ideas that Islam represents.  It's just that they hate America even more, and therefore must find something good to say about Islam.

LOL. Do you really think most people who voted for Kerry really hate America and support anything that's anti-American (and of course, there's no reason for htem being anti-American, it just is that way)

You're a complete idiot if you really think that. The truth is, I do no care if something is pro- or anti-American. I only care about if I agree with it. I do not agree with Islam, so I hate it. I agree with Hugo Chavez, so I like him. I agree with the Sudan People's Liberation Army, who are pro-American, so I support them. Being pro- or anti-American has nothing to do with it. How something stands on America is meaningless to me, I only judge things SOLEY on how close to my ideology they are.

Please show me where I have praised North Korea. Being such an anti-American country, I should love it by your standards.

Of course this was my opinion, then I went to a leadership convention. Now I don't care if anything is pro- or anti-American, just if it's anti-communist.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You said MOST leftists.

You also failed to show where I said I loved North Korea. By your logic, I should, because you think I support anything that's anti-American, no matter what. You have said I was anti-American for hating South Vietnam, when in fact my view on it is PRO-American, I don't think that horrid regime was worth a single American dime or single American life defending, regardless of what the alternative is. Therefore I wanted absolutely no American intervention in Vietnam, thus saving AMERICAN lives and AMERICAN resources.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

They aren't dictators, and I like them because they are leftist. The fact that they are anti-American (and I don't even think they are, just anti-Bush) is completely irrelevant to me. I don't like the anti-American regime in Sudan.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You don't seem to get it.  I'm not looking to address your personal views.  You may or may not be the typical leftist.  Not all Democratic voters or Kerry voters are leftists in any case.

it seems to me you are defining leftists as being anti-American, and therefore that anyone who is not anti-American is not a leftist.

I don't give a rat's azz about your views of North Korea.  You'd have to be one step away from the looney bin to like that government.

well no arguments here, but by your logic leftists should like it solely because of it's anti-Americanism. Not the case.  Also not the case with Sudan.

Your overall tone is anti-American.  It's an observation I made a while back, and I continue to believe it, for a number of reasons other than just your opinion of South Vietnam.  Maybe you're just negative in general, and would be negative toward whatever society you live in.

give evidence. And like I said before, I can just seem to be anti-American now because of how strongly opposed to the current administration I am. Things would be much different if John Kerry was in office.

You seem to have taken a personal affront to my observation and I regret that, but it is what I believe.

Basically because what you believe is utter bullsh**t.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There's a difference between what you claim and being truly anti-American.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What it means is that my country doesn't trump my support for human rights, for example it means I still think Pinochet is scum (dazzleman once said I was anti-American for hating him).  dazzleman also said he considers the Saudi Royals better than Hugo Chavez and judges them ONLY on how well they get along with the US, while I say Chavez is far better because he doesn't run a theocratic police state.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The problem is you are comparing a government to a nation.

Do I support Venezuela more than the US? No.

Do I support Chavez's government of Venezuela more than the current government of the US? Yes. Why should I not? It's a hell of a lot closer to my ideology, and I'm not going to follow an asswipe like Bush. And like I said, I don't consider Chavez anti-American, just pissed at Bush, with valid reason considering Bush backed a coup against him.

I would agree that someone who is truly anti-American like opebo (who can't seem to say anything good about it) should leave (which he does for half the year and would very well do permamently if it was simple), but conservatives like to twist opposition to the current government into being anti-American.

There's a family in my hometown who are hardly anti-American. They had a very patriotic tradition, even to the point where one of their sons joined the Army. Well then he was killed in Iraq. His parents turned rabidly against Bush. Ever since that they have put up a huge banner on their house "BUSH SENT OUR SON HOME IN A BODY BAG". My parents tell me they are now the most rabidly anti-Bush people they've ever talked to, even moreso than me. Does that mean they hate America?

I also find it pretty hilarious to claim that I'm anti-American when during the Olympics I was hoping that the American athletes win every single event I saw simply on that basis alone and never rooted for anyone else! Wouldn't an American-hater want to see them fail?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Probably right, he prefers living here half the year to actually having to work in another country. Oh well, his choice.

And look at this way patrick, using this logic one could argue that you're anti-American for supporting the IRA over Britain, a US ally. But I won't make this ridiculous claim because I realize the situation at hand has virtually nothing to do with relations with the US.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So you'd have no problem with a nation that was undertaking a genocidal ethnic cleansing as long as they didn't bash the US and would consider them better than France?

BTW, this also makes you a hypocrite for supporting the IRA and Sinn Fein, since they oppose Britain, a US ally.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I still think Pinochet is scum (dazzleman once said I was anti-American for hating him). 

No, I said you were anti-American because even if he had the exact same policies, you would not have hated him if he had been an enemy, rather than a friend, of the US.

OK, point me toward a dictator very much like Pinochet who is anti-American and who I like and is similarly a whore of neoliberalism. I hate all neoliberalism and free market economics, and its even worse when a brutal dictator is running it. This is the ultimate in baseless assumptions.

The only "dictator" I like at all is Chavez, who I don't consider a dictator and is about as far away from Pinochet as you can get in domestic policies. So your accusation is 100% baseless.

Furthermore if this were true, this would mean that I would support EVERY anti-American regime without exception. So please point me to where I've praised North Korea and/or the Taliban. Or how about Sudan? Except I think the problem with our Sudan policy was it was too lenient, and that we should've done air and cruise missle strikes at military targets to weaken the regime further and assist the rebels in the south and Darfur. And why am I such a supporter of the US ally Britain over the anti-American IRA.

So I ask you this challenge: name two cases of people where I like one and I hate the other with the only difference whatsoever between the two being that one is anti-American and the other isn't.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Oh yeah, ban me for 2 1/2 year old threads.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Oh yeah, ban me for 2 1/2 year old threads.

We're not asking for you to be banned because of this; we are asking to ban you because of all the vindictive threads you've created recently, as well as the many personal attacks.

Then ban Phil too (ESPECIALLY if you want to talk about personal attacks because I can't count how many he's made toward me.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I think that for most leftists, anti-Americanism trumps everything else.

I'm a leftist and I love America.  Right down to my bones.  Hating some things America has done in the past or is doing now is not tantamount to hating America.  Quite the opposite, in fact. 

Like I said in another thread, arguing with the poster in question is like arguing with a wall to change its color.

However he's no longer with us, so no worries.