MA-SEN Megathread: Senator Markey wins

[Morning in Atlas]

I will run through a wall for this man.

[Morning in Atlas]

Kennedy hasn't run a great campaign, but Markey's campaign has been despicable.

He's been turning this race into a referendum on the Kennedy family and allied himself with these absolute assholes on the far-left who act as his shock troops doing everything they can to trash JKIII and the Kennedys as a whole.  Most of them had no idea who Kennedy or Markey were three months ago and now they're turned "Vote for Markey" into a progressive litmus test.

Oh no, Markey didn't turn it into a referendum. It's almost like Kennedy is running this campaign on his last name. If Kennedy were Joe Smith, he would be laughed out of the room like Jon Svitavsky.

And you want to talk personal attacks?  Markey fired first.  But really, he's been firing throughout this campaign by letting Rose Twitter do the dirty work of oppo and character assassination against JKIII.

Right, Rose Twitter is killing Kennedy, not his inability to explain what he would bring to the table besides platitudes about "generational change" and "new leadership".

I wish mean tweets had as much power as you think they do. If they did, Joe Biden would be a footnote in history and we'd be jousting with the #KHive over party unity.

Such a shame that JKIII fell into this bear trap.  He was a rising star in the party, and ordinarily, running a primary campaign against a 74-year-old incumbent who's lost touch with his district is something we're cool with.  Right, AOC and Cori Bush fans?

You know why the left supported AOC and Cori Bush and not Kennedy. You're either obfuscating to score a cheap gotcha or you're as unable to render an opposing argument as Kennedy is.

Unfortunately, Markey used this destructive, divisive strategy, and now even if JKIII wins his career is going to be forever kneecapped by the relentless demonization and character assassination he's endured from the progressive left, for nothing other than the crime of challenging The Great Ed Markey, who I repeat, none of these people actually knows anything about other than that he's AOC's buddy.  Imagine if someone told them he voted for the Iraq War.  According to Bernie, that's a disqualifying mistake.

The reason Bernie could even use that zinger was because he actually voted against the Iraq War as a representative. Again, you're pretending like Kennedy wouldn't have done the same if he were in Congress in 2003. Given the information they had at the time, it was the politically expedient choice.

[Morning in Atlas]

I don't think there's really much of an argument for Kennedy other than that he seems like a perfectly acceptable politician.  He wasn't anything special in the House, but he wasn't anything bad either, he was just fine.  He's not like Caroline, who is kind of embarrassing and obviously only became Ambassador to Japan because of her name.  You are right that he doesn't differentiate himself much from Markey on policy and doesn't have any real accomplishments to run on (mainly due to the House being in GOP hands for most of his career).

It's more of an anti-Markey campaign, mainly because he's old and ineffective. The guy was in the House for nearly 40 years and accomplished nothing.

Telecommunications Act of 1996? COPPA? Improving access to broadband? Not to mention his tireless advocacy for the environment and Internet issues.

He got the Senate seat based mainly on tenure and name recognition, and continues to do nothing in the Senate.  At least if you put JKIII in the Senate he has the youth, ambition, and political skill to amount to something.  Markey is just going to be six years of nothing.

You're acting like Kennedy's not going to turn around and run for President in 2024. Give me the six years of seniority over four years of backbenching and a Presidential run.

Although I'd like to say that Markey also deserves to go because he embarrassed himself and his party by introducing the Green New Deal to the Senate, that's probably not why JKIII is running against him.

And there it is, folks. The real reason why MacArthur doesn't support him. Anything to trigger The Bros. 

After AOC won, her supporters said it was a good thing, because Joe Crowley was old and out-of-touch and ineffective.  The reality is that Crowley was very in-touch with his district, in fact that was the main thing he did as a Rep was take care of the 14th. And AOC didn't run on him being "out of touch", she ran on him being a corrupt, racist party boss who personally created ICE.

The man effectively lived in Virginia his entire time.. He spent most of his time there, his kids went to school in Virginia. He couldn't show up to his own debate. Completely incomparable to Markey, really.

  But the point is, the anger at JKIII for trying to upset a do-nothing long-time incumbent seems absurdly hypocritical, and that's because it's all fake anger.  In reality, they hate JKIII because ever since Markey introduced the GND, he's been deemed an "ally" and anyone who opposes him is therefore a hated enemy who must be destroyed at all costs.[/quote]

Let me spell it out for you, since you're apparently too dense to get it:

People supported AOC and Bowman because they could draw an ideological contrast. Namely, one they could agree with.

[Morning in Atlas]

Two and a half pages of the forum dragging the ****libs.

You love to see it.

[Morning in Atlas]

Debate last night.

The last debate Kennedy crushed Markey and it wasn’t close.

The first 20 minutes of this debate was more of the same and Markey appeared flat footed on the DJ Henry case. But he picked it up and made a decent case for himself as the night went along.

If you were undecided going into the debate you probably remained that way.

The hypocrisy is human. If the incumbent was closer to your faction of the party, you and MacArthur would be backing them as strongly as we paid Markey.

As far as I'm concerned, we'd both be "hypocrites". The only difference is that I'm not pretending I'm above it.

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/vgmac/status/1296484779215532034

Remember, folks: the establishment hates socialists more than it hates fascists.

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/vgmac/status/1296484779215532034

This is a bit of a surprise.

Not particularly. If someone challenges an incumbent from the left who votes with Trump 70% of the time, they're an upstart and anyone who works with them needs to be cast out of the party. Squash them like the bug that they are!

If someone challenges a noncontroversial incumbent from the right, they're a "courageous leader" and a "rising star".

Let's all be real about this.

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/vgmac/status/1296484779215532034

Remember, folks: the establishment hates socialists more than it hates fascists.

No offense, but I literally have no idea what you're talking about.  Ed Markey is not a socialist and Joe Kennedy III isn't a fascist.

You're obfuscating the last point I made. A primary challenger from the left is a pariah, a challenger from the (admittedly vague) right is a bright young man. Surely you see the hypocrisy from Pelosi, right?

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/vgmac/status/1296484779215532034

This is a bit of a surprise.

Not particularly. If someone challenges an incumbent from the left who votes with Trump 70% of the time, they're an upstart and anyone who works with them needs to be cast out of the party. Squash them like the bug that they are!

If someone challenges a noncontroversial incumbent from the right, they're a "courageous leader" and a "rising star".

Let's all be real about this.

You're right, it is pretty hypocritical when #RoseTwitter pretends Ayanna Pressely is a "courageous leader" and a "rising star."  

We're not talking about Rose Twitter and Ayanna Pressley. We're talking about Nancy Pelosi, Joe Kennedy, and Henry Cuellar.

Between this and AOC only getting "speaking time" to fulfill a procedural duty, I feel pretty vindicated in my "DNC hates the left more than the right" spiel.

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/vgmac/status/1296484779215532034

Remember, folks: the establishment hates socialists more than it hates fascists.

Ah yes, the famous anti-socialist warriors Pocan and Jayapal.

That's just 2 names. I'll even throw you one more in Raul Grijalva.

Either way, very interesting to see Pelosi defend ****ty incumbents and endorse a primary challenger who happens to be challenging slightly from his right.

[Morning in Atlas]

I still support Markey in this race, but after all I don't know if I want to support him. And not because I was affected by Pelosi endorsement. And not because my opinion of Markey has deteriorated, I considered and still consider him a great Senator.

But because most far-left fanatics now talk about Pelosi, who likes fascists more than socialists, and Kennedy, who is a far-right trumpist

Never said anything of the sort about Kennedy.

The Pelosi **** was more of an indictment on the entire establishment, but she showed her true colors today. Hopefully the new wave of JDs torpedoes her leadership bid over this.

[Morning in Atlas]

I'm not sure about the Nadler challenge, but Honda's primary challenge was more about his corruption than anything. I trusted Honda more as a progressive, and I'm glad Khanna has followed through (as I did Capuano), but I wasn't too sad about him losing.

Other than that, SWE and Tilts explained the real hypocrisy going on. If Omar ran for the MN-SEN nom and was somehow running a competitive race, you bet your ass Pelosi would be staying neutral.

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/JTHVerhovek/status/1296503308685848580

So essentially leaning into the Bernie Bro narrative.

The apology box is back open, folks.

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/MondaireJones/status/1296493738152398855?s=19

https://twitter.com/JCisnerosTX/status/1296496058407817217?s=19

King Mondaire weighs in, along with the best example of Pelosi aiding fascists over socialists.

They have infinitely more patience than I do. You can only be told so many times to go **** yourself before you start listening.

[Morning in Atlas]

Just remember:

We are watching you.

We will remember you.

And come January, when you ask for our help to keep your gavel, we will replace you.

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/JTHVerhovek/status/1296503308685848580

So essentially leaning into the Bernie Bro narrative.

The apology box is back open, folks.

Apologize for what?  Also, I'm genuinely not sure how you make the leap from this to the Bernie Bro narrative.

Recent events involving the party ticket have made it clear that the Bernie Bro narrative was used as an abject exploit to bludgeon the left - not out of a genuine attempt to make politics more civil.

As far as I'm concerned, "his supporters are mean" is establishmentese for "he's too far left".

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/elizacollins1/status/1296536959385575429

What a ****ing cuck.

[Morning in Atlas]

Say what you want about Warren but she'd be busting her ass working for Markey.

[Morning in Atlas]

Hot Take: Not all Democratic primaries are about Berniecrats vs. the establishment

No, they aren't. This one certainly isn't quite about that.

But with Pelosi and Kennedy trying to paint Markey supporters with the same brush, we know exactly why she's supporting him.

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/elizacollins1/status/1296536959385575429

🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍

[Morning in Atlas]

ENDORSING CENK UYGUR

BUT NOT ED MARKEY

I'm going to ****ing scream.

[Morning in Atlas]

Hot Take: Not all Democratic primaries are about Berniecrats vs. the establishment

No, they aren't. This one certainly isn't quite about that.

But with Pelosi and Kennedy trying to paint Markey supporters with the same brush, we know exactly why she's supporting him.

Right, she’s supporting him b/c for congressional Democrats, this race has become a bizarre proxy fight between the House and Senate Democratic Caucuses.  At the end of the day, you’re gonna see what you look for, but it’s pretty clear most congressional Democrats don’t see this race as being about ideological differences between the candidates.

This I can understand. Jayapal/Pocan/Grijalva are backing Kennedy because of the reasons you already know. They're his colleagues. However, because of what Pelosi is mad about and her past history, I don't believe that she's backing him for the same reasons the Progressive Caucus is.

You didn't see her back Ryan or Gabbard or Moulton for President. You didn't see her supporting her caucus members and backing Loretta Sanchez in her bid for Senate. You didn't see her backing Hanabusa in 2014 for Senate or 2018 for Governor. She never backed Walz either in his bid for Governor.

Pelosi endorsing Kennedy isn't "promoting her caucus" or "business as usual" by any means. It's an extraordinary first step she's taken, especially with regard to competitive primaries. The only one I could find of her "standing up for her colleagues" was Ben Ray Lujan. Even then, he was in a dominant position and had united everyone behind him. When other candidates needed her endorsement, she never answered the call.

It’s about whether (A) Pelosi is the de facto leader of all congressional Democrats even if the Senate flips or (B) whether Schumer and Pelosi are equals.  If Schumer can block Pelosi from meddling in Senate primaries, he’s asserting his own influence and if he can’t then it could make him a de facto junior partner to Pelosi.

I'm not sure you're connecting Point A to Point C, but I can help:

One of Kennedy's attacks on Markey has been an attempt to paint Markey and his supporters as bullies. Ever since that one cancelled Broadway fundraiser, he has attempted to paint Markey's supporters as an unruly mob. In a recent debate, he actually went as far as to cite a tweet from... a random person, implicitly calling on Markey to condemn them. Overall, it's a pretty blatant attempt from Kennedy to tie Markey to the toxic elements of Rose Twitter.

The latest in this line of attack has been to accuse Markey of  attacking the Kennedy family legacy. Lo and behold, it turns out that Pelosi herself admitted she endorsed because of the "attacks" - which are mainly attempts to use JFK's call to action for self-promotion and paint Kennedy as someone of privilege.

It's pretty clear, given the nomination of Kamala Harris, her husband endorsing one of her most toxic supporters, and the lack of scrutiny that the KHive has received, that Democrats aren't applying this standard regarding civility evenly. I don't think I need to explain more of my views to anyone, let alone you. I don't see this line of attack from Kennedy and his supporters as sincere, but as establishment-speak for "this candidate is too close to the left for my liking".

Given what we know, I believe that's the subtext of why Pelosi's backing Kennedy. And that's the hypocrisy of the entire thing, especially as she went so far to cape for crap incumbents like Henry Cuellar.

[Morning in Atlas]

The latest in this line of attack has been to accuse Markey of  attacking the Kennedy family legacy. Lo and behold, it turns out that Pelosi herself admitted she endorsed because of the "attacks" - which are mainly attempts to use JFK's call to action for self-promotion and paint Kennedy as someone of privilege.

Nothing in your link supports this assertion.

Except the video where she says she wasn't happy about the attacks on Kennedy's family and the quote that says the same thing.

[Morning in Atlas]

The Kennedys know exactly what they're doing. "Mean tweets" is a dogwhistle for "he's too far left".

You see why I made my judgment on the Pelosi endorsement?

[Morning in Atlas]

The Kennedys know exactly what they're doing. "Mean tweets" is a dogwhistle for "he's too far left".

I support Markey as I've said but I'm unhappy that this bad behavior from certain extremely online people during the primary is carrying over to new campaigns. Ugh.

I happen to disagree. If we want to talk about more concrete hypocrisy and double standards, progressives are the only ones who have been held accountable for their supporters. We can debate about whether Pelosi's legitimately defending her friendships with the Kennedy family or not. What we can't debate is that the Joe Kennedys of the world won't hold their allies accountable for the same thing.

I actually thought that they'd pull the same line of attack with other supporters. There's always going to be a "dirtbag progressive" stereotype with any candidate that aligns with leftist ideas like MFA and the GND. There were rumblings of the Bro Playbook being used against Warren by the KHive, but I knew there would be a high-profile use of the same playbook at some point. I just didn't expect hard proof to come this soon.

If you look hard enough, you could find Kennedy supporters making toxic tweets as well. Or, in general, more establishment-leaning progressives. I've actually documented many of the latter here. To keep it short, Douglas Emhoff is friends with a KHive fan who doxed Kamala's enemies on Twitter in her name (and got kicked off DailyKos/DU for being explicitly anti-Semitic). Hillary Clinton sent a thank-you letter to an avowed anti-Semite, and Joy Reid followed someone who made explicit death threats to Bernie.

None of these political figures received any scrutiny for directly assocating with toxic figures in the establishment. If Some Dude with 100 followers makes an explicit death threat towards Kennedy, "real life isn't Twitter" gets thrown out the window and it becomes local news.

There's toxicity everywhere in every major political race - especially with the rise of social media. Instead of getting your news from one of a few options, you can tailor your feed however you like. A left-winger can set up their feed to get their "news" from Virgil Texas the same way that a KHiver can get theirs from Bravenak. Time and time again, only one side is expected to condemn their worst supporters - no matter how insignificant they are.

That's why I believe what I believe, and that's why I don't trust him to lead on progressive issues as much as Markey or even Warren.