Foreign-born US President

[angus]

with all the silly threads about who we'd be "comfortable" with...

I ask, would you support a constitutional amendment to allow foreign-born individuals who are otherwise qualified to run for President of the USA?

[JohnFKennedy]

I certainly would in time for say my 35th birthday .

[George W. Bush]

Yea

[Richard]

Absolutely not.

[Capey]

Depending on the candidate, yes.

[Jake]

No. Only Americans should be able to be President of America.

[Capey]

No. Only Americans should be able to be President of America.

Do you say that because most foreign people are more liberal than Americans, or because you dislike foreigners?

[Redefeatbush04]

If they are well qualified, have been in the nation for a long period of time, and do not intend to make our nation ruled by Europe I can't see why anyone would have a problem with them.

[A18]

I don't trust foreign born citizens with the presidency. They'd be more likely to sell us out to the UN or some other joke of an organization.

[Cashcow]

We let other top officials, such as the Secretary of State, take said position even if not born in the U.S. These people came here to live a better life and would only run for office in an attempt to improve the world - as an American. Isn't that the kind of thing Republicans stand for?

If Henry Kissinger can be Secretary of State, why can't Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jennifer Granholm be President?

[A18]

We let other top officials, such as the Secretary of State, take said position even if not born in the U.S. These people came here to live a better life and would only run for office in an attempt to improve the world - as an American. Isn't that the kind of thing Republicans stand for?

If Henry Kissinger can be Secretary of State, why can't Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jennifer Granholm be President?

In those cases, the president is still the #1 executive official, and can overrule his cabinet.

I don't want the Commander In Chief taking orders from Kofi.

[Redefeatbush04]

We let other top officials, such as the Secretary of State, take said position even if not born in the U.S. These people came here to live a better life and would only run for office in an attempt to improve the world - as an American. Isn't that the kind of thing Republicans stand for?

If Henry Kissinger can be Secretary of State, why can't Arnold Schwarzenegger or Jennifer Granholm be President?

In those cases, the president is still the #1 executive official, and can overrule his cabinet.

I don't want the Commander In Chief taking orders from Kofi.

That's cause Kofi is black

[J.R. Brown]

If they were qualified and have lived here for at least 20 years or more then absolutely.

[angus]

a bit of a partisan divide shaping up here.  interesting.

I should disclose that I voted NO/other in this particular poll.  I'll leave out the reasons for now, but for Capey I'll say that it has nothing to do with "liberal" or "conservative" viewpoints, or with any idea about geocentric superiority, or dislike of foreigners either.

[nclib]

I would definitely support this amendment.

[Lunar]

I don't trust foreign born citizens with the presidency. They'd be more likely to sell us out to the UN or some other joke of an organization.

Because naturalized citizens are secret agents planted by the UN to advance the UN agenda?

Basing your decision on who is allowed to run for office and who isn't based upon who is "more likey to sell us out to the UN or some other joke" seems a bit infinitely regressive.  Why not prevent Democrats, foreign policy liberals, anyone who doesn't have an American flag on their garage, anyone who's been to another country, etc. from running?

[A18]

Because that would be a bit obsessive, now wouldn't it?

[Richard]

I don't trust foreign born citizens with the presidency. They'd be more likely to sell us out to the UN or some other joke of an organization.

Because naturalized citizens are secret agents planted by the UN to advance the UN agenda?

Don't be absurd.  I completely agree with Philip, and I'm a foreigner.  If you're unable to comprehend what he is saying, maybe you should ask for a refund on your education.

[Lunar]

I don't trust foreign born citizens with the presidency. They'd be more likely to sell us out to the UN or some other joke of an organization.

Because naturalized citizens are secret agents planted by the UN to advance the UN agenda?

Don't be absurd.  I completely agree with Philip, and I'm a foreigner.  If you're unable to comprehend what he is saying, maybe you should ask for a refund on your education.

Jesus Christ dude, there's no need to insult me.

It was intentionally absurd to show my feelings about the argument.

I'm not saying that there is no legitimate argument on the other side, I'm simply saying that justifying it by "they're more likely to turn over control to the UN" is awfully silly.

[Richard]

I don't trust foreign born citizens with the presidency. They'd be more likely to sell us out to the UN or some other joke of an organization.

Because naturalized citizens are secret agents planted by the UN to advance the UN agenda?

Don't be absurd.  I completely agree with Philip, and I'm a foreigner.  If you're unable to comprehend what he is saying, maybe you should ask for a refund on your education.

Jesus Christ dude, there's no need to insult me.

It was intentionally absurd to show my feelings about the argument.

I'm not saying that there is no legitimate argument on the other side, I'm simply saying that justifying it by "they're more likely to turn over control to the UN" is awfully silly.

I know what you said, and that statement is incorrect.  You then tried to argue it by presenting a hyperbole, which is an improper way of presenting an argument.  How about backing your statement up with some reasoning?

My reasoning is simple: There are always ties that bind you to where you woke up, and the people you met.  The first few years of your live you are very open minded and can be easily influenced.  You may not realize it, but subconsciously you have ties that bind you to people, places, and events.  These subconscious events may flow into conscious thoughts.

You do not want a president that wasn't born in your country because of unknown influences on him.

[Lunar]

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Um, the infinitely regressive argument was my argument.

I also found the idea of all of these foreign born, naturalized citizens just sitting there, biding their time, ready to convert the United States into UN Member State #0032 very comical.

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And that's the real justification for the current system.

My position isn't that we shouldn't take into account these influences, but rather that fear of these subconscious influences shouldn't be a trump card against an otherwise superb candidate.

[A18]

Saying they'd be more likely to sell us out to the UN (which is of course true) is not the same as mentioning all these naturalized citizens trying to turn the U.S. into a UN Member State #32 or whatever.

[Lunar]

Saying they'd be more likely to sell us out to the UN (which is of course true) is not the same as mentioning all these naturalized citizens trying to turn the U.S. into a UN Member State #32 or whatever.

Yeah, I've already admitted to using a hyperbole.  Guilty as charged.

Hell, I'm probably more likely to do what you would consider "selling us out" to an international organization than most of the naturalized citizenry in this country.

[angus]

I would definitely support this amendment.

I felt this way for a long time.  I'm not saying it's something you outgrow, but I'm certain I no longer feel this way.  I think Richius expresses it well, and I really can't add any to his comments. 

As an aside, the UN was not only nonexistent when he wrote this law, but so far-fetched that it probably didn't even occur to Thomas Jefferson when the requirement was set forth.  Let's look at the job description.  I draw your attention to the US constitution.  (aaah, where is MarkDel when you need him?!)  Clearly the president has few powers compared to congress, as is evident by the fact that Article II has only 4 sections, as compared to the ten in Article I.  But let's limit our discussion to the actual job description, as outlined in the second clause, to wit:

Clause 1: The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Clause 2: He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

Clause 3: The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Jefferson understood that a US citizen with native loyalties to Germany or England may not be able to completely maintain objectivity with respect to these considerations.  Believe me, as a person who has lived in two other countries besides the United States, and a person who has fallen completely in love with a foreigner and who has chosen, above all others, a foreigner to be the mother of my child, that I bear no ill will to foreigners.  My grandparents, all four, were born foreigners.  All four became US citizens.  And all four understood the value of this important requirement, and passed on to their children that oft-quoted sentiment, that their children "could grow up to be president."  Granted, it's a joking, mocking thing to say now.  (AS IF anyone would actually want that thankless job!!!)  And I understand the joke.  I certainly would never wish that upon my child, and neither would his foreign-born mother who loves him very much.  But isn't it obvious that my wife, who will become a US citizen, as her will is strong and her patience infinitely greater than mine, will always be Chinese.  Above all else, though the loyalty of her heart (or kidney, as they say in china) belongs to me, her cultural and linguistic loyalties lie with china (not the PRC!!!  as she has absolutely no respect for communism or the cultural revolution, indeed!  But with that most ancient culture that is china.)  This I respect, just as she respects our constitution.  If she were not intelligent enough, or not open-minded enough, to respect it, she would probably still be able to become a citizen, but she would probably not have won my heart (or kidney I should say, out of sensitivity and to avoid ethnocentrism)   

Sensitivity I respect.  I admire it  Hell, I preach it.  But let's not confuse insensitivity with the importance of law and order and the foresight of our greatest Founding Father.  You can never get a divorce.  You can think you can get a divorce.  You can believe you can get a divorce.  But in every corner of your mind the land, the culture, of your birth will make you who you are.  The Iraqis understand this, for even they allow US and English citizens who were born Iraqi to vote in their elections.  But then, the Iraqis are a very well-educated people.  Are we???

[A18]

What law? It's part of the Constitution ... which Jefferson did not write.