AOC: White House "starving out" Puerto Rico

[Famous Mortimer]

Puerto Rico exists solely as a colony to be exploited by its dominating imperial power. That's why their status as US citizens will be downplayed, their bid for statehood will be denied, and whatever resources they have (human and natural) will be extracted and appropriated (almost entirely) by people located in distant power centers. And, thanks to the current method of capitalist domination, they're also experiencing the wonders of crippling debt, high interest rates, and forced privatization while simultaneously being punished with austerity aimed at crippling their lower and working classes for daring to aspire to a modicum of basic human dignity.

If our government couldn't muster a shred of care about all the poor (mostly POC) people abandoned in New Orleans and left to die, flooded by a storm that broke a levee system that was systematically underfunded and carelessly neglected; if our government couldn't be bothered to make the necessary investments in Flint's water infrastructure, even after the lead poisoning occurred, and still neglects the very lives of its own citizens in a US state; what the hell makes anyone think our government would treat Puerto Ricans as if they're actual human beings?

The raw truth. I also believe Puerto Rico is functioning as a lab test for future attempts to implement nationwide austerity to the extreme.

This is so dumb. Puerto Rico contributes nothing in federal taxes but gets billions in federal aid. The federal government is not exploiting Puerto Rico, it's the other way around.

Yeah, because all those payments in Import/Export taxes via the Jones Act are non-existent, which by the way, are mandated to go through a mainland port before it comes to Puerto Rico, even if it's being shipped from a neighboring country like the Dominican Republic. At least get a little bit informed before going on your usual tirades of ignorance so you can circumvent logic like you usually do.

I post this information for the use of others, as I know it will be lost on you (see below).

"As residents of Puerto Rico pay into Social Security, Puerto Ricans are eligible for Social Security benefits upon retirement but are excluded from the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) (Commonwealth of Puerto Rico residents, unlike residents of the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands and residents of the 50 States, do not receive the SSI),[26] and the island actually receives less than 15% of the Medicaid funding it would normally receive if it were a state."

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico#cite_note-26 (via ssa.org)

"A common misconception is that the import/export taxes collected by the U.S. on products manufactured in Puerto Rico are all returned to the Puerto Rico Treasury. That is not the case, as such import/export taxes are returned only for rum products, and even then, the US Treasury keeps a portion of the taxes" (Read: Indirect taxation, and it's quite a lot)

Link: https://www.congress.gov/bill/110th-congress/house-bill/900 (HR-900)

See this reddit thread for a larger discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/4ep8hr/does_puerto_rico_account_for_a_net_benefit_or/


In short, there is plenty of de facto Federal Income tax in Puerto Rico, and it adds up to much more than the average American citizen would pay in any state. It's all hidden behind different names, but it's there. You would feel it if you lived there.

On top of that, you get fractional benefits from the Federal Government, such as severely reduced Medicaid and an inability to vote or be represented in any meaningful way in Congress, on top of ignorant people (like such person above who doesn't bother to look into anything and prefers to spew talking points) adding insult to injury.

As usual, mortimer's posts can be readily translated into " dirty ignorant lazy spics are dragging us down".

It's clear Puerto Rico gets more out of their relationship with the US than the US gets out of its relationship with Puerto Rico, that's why support for independence is in the single digits. If you believe Puerto Ricans are being exploited, you necessarily have to think that they're pretty stupid to keep supporting their exploitation. I, of course, realize they aren't being exploited and they're being very savvy by continuing to support "colonization".

[Dr. Arch]

Puerto Rico exists solely as a colony to be exploited by its dominating imperial power. That's why their status as US citizens will be downplayed, their bid for statehood will be denied, and whatever resources they have (human and natural) will be extracted and appropriated (almost entirely) by people located in distant power centers. And, thanks to the current method of capitalist domination, they're also experiencing the wonders of crippling debt, high interest rates, and forced privatization while simultaneously being punished with austerity aimed at crippling their lower and working classes for daring to aspire to a modicum of basic human dignity.

If our government couldn't muster a shred of care about all the poor (mostly POC) people abandoned in New Orleans and left to die, flooded by a storm that broke a levee system that was systematically underfunded and carelessly neglected; if our government couldn't be bothered to make the necessary investments in Flint's water infrastructure, even after the lead poisoning occurred, and still neglects the very lives of its own citizens in a US state; what the hell makes anyone think our government would treat Puerto Ricans as if they're actual human beings?

The raw truth. I also believe Puerto Rico is functioning as a lab test for future attempts to implement nationwide austerity to the extreme.

This is so dumb. Puerto Rico contributes nothing in federal taxes but gets billions in federal aid. The federal government is not exploiting Puerto Rico, it's the other way around.

Yeah, because all those payments in Import/Export taxes via the Jones Act are non-existent, which by the way, are mandated to go through a mainland port before it comes to Puerto Rico, even if it's being shipped from a neighboring country like the Dominican Republic. At least get a little bit informed before going on your usual tirades of ignorance so you can circumvent logic like you usually do.

I post this information for the use of others, as I know it will be lost on you (see below).

"As residents of Puerto Rico pay into Social Security, Puerto Ricans are eligible for Social Security benefits upon retirement but are excluded from the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) (Commonwealth of Puerto Rico residents, unlike residents of the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands and residents of the 50 States, do not receive the SSI),[26] and the island actually receives less than 15% of the Medicaid funding it would normally receive if it were a state."

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico#cite_note-26 (via ssa.org)

"A common misconception is that the import/export taxes collected by the U.S. on products manufactured in Puerto Rico are all returned to the Puerto Rico Treasury. That is not the case, as such import/export taxes are returned only for rum products, and even then, the US Treasury keeps a portion of the taxes" (Read: Indirect taxation, and it's quite a lot)

Link: https://www.congress.gov/bill/110th-congress/house-bill/900 (HR-900)

See this reddit thread for a larger discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/4ep8hr/does_puerto_rico_account_for_a_net_benefit_or/


In short, there is plenty of de facto Federal Income tax in Puerto Rico, and it adds up to much more than the average American citizen would pay in any state. It's all hidden behind different names, but it's there. You would feel it if you lived there.

On top of that, you get fractional benefits from the Federal Government, such as severely reduced Medicaid and an inability to vote or be represented in any meaningful way in Congress, on top of ignorant people (like such person above who doesn't bother to look into anything and prefers to spew talking points) adding insult to injury.

As usual, mortimer's posts can be readily translated into " dirty ignorant lazy spics are dragging us down".

(1) It's clear Puerto Rico gets more out of their relationship with the US than the US gets out of its relationship with Puerto Rico, (2) that's why support for independence is in the single digits. If you believe Puerto Ricans are being exploited, you necessarily have to think that they're pretty stupid to keep supporting their exploitation. I, of course, realize they aren't being exploited and they're being very savvy by continuing to support "colonization".

(1) False, it isn't. Show that it does; counteract what I pointed out above. I posted data and historical conversations and documents, and you have nothing but talking points.

(2) Support for independence is in the single digits because Puerto Ricans have developed a shared culture and identity with the United States by this point. Many of us feel American as well as Puerto Rican, in the same sense as Texans feel American as well as Texan.

Support for statehood is high because most of us are aware that many of those barriers, such as lack of representation, loss of fiscal control, and budgetary issues, would be torn down with statehood. It's a matter of identity, not political and economic benefit per se, where Puerto Ricans have clearly been getting the short end of the stick for over a century now.

Don't even pretend to begin to understand a people when all you have is bias and an outsider's perception.

[Famous Mortimer]

Puerto Rico exists solely as a colony to be exploited by its dominating imperial power. That's why their status as US citizens will be downplayed, their bid for statehood will be denied, and whatever resources they have (human and natural) will be extracted and appropriated (almost entirely) by people located in distant power centers. And, thanks to the current method of capitalist domination, they're also experiencing the wonders of crippling debt, high interest rates, and forced privatization while simultaneously being punished with austerity aimed at crippling their lower and working classes for daring to aspire to a modicum of basic human dignity.

If our government couldn't muster a shred of care about all the poor (mostly POC) people abandoned in New Orleans and left to die, flooded by a storm that broke a levee system that was systematically underfunded and carelessly neglected; if our government couldn't be bothered to make the necessary investments in Flint's water infrastructure, even after the lead poisoning occurred, and still neglects the very lives of its own citizens in a US state; what the hell makes anyone think our government would treat Puerto Ricans as if they're actual human beings?

The raw truth. I also believe Puerto Rico is functioning as a lab test for future attempts to implement nationwide austerity to the extreme.

This is so dumb. Puerto Rico contributes nothing in federal taxes but gets billions in federal aid. The federal government is not exploiting Puerto Rico, it's the other way around.

Yeah, because all those payments in Import/Export taxes via the Jones Act are non-existent, which by the way, are mandated to go through a mainland port before it comes to Puerto Rico, even if it's being shipped from a neighboring country like the Dominican Republic. At least get a little bit informed before going on your usual tirades of ignorance so you can circumvent logic like you usually do.

I post this information for the use of others, as I know it will be lost on you (see below).

"As residents of Puerto Rico pay into Social Security, Puerto Ricans are eligible for Social Security benefits upon retirement but are excluded from the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) (Commonwealth of Puerto Rico residents, unlike residents of the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands and residents of the 50 States, do not receive the SSI),[26] and the island actually receives less than 15% of the Medicaid funding it would normally receive if it were a state."

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico#cite_note-26 (via ssa.org)

"A common misconception is that the import/export taxes collected by the U.S. on products manufactured in Puerto Rico are all returned to the Puerto Rico Treasury. That is not the case, as such import/export taxes are returned only for rum products, and even then, the US Treasury keeps a portion of the taxes" (Read: Indirect taxation, and it's quite a lot)

Link: https://www.congress.gov/bill/110th-congress/house-bill/900 (HR-900)

See this reddit thread for a larger discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/4ep8hr/does_puerto_rico_account_for_a_net_benefit_or/


In short, there is plenty of de facto Federal Income tax in Puerto Rico, and it adds up to much more than the average American citizen would pay in any state. It's all hidden behind different names, but it's there. You would feel it if you lived there.

On top of that, you get fractional benefits from the Federal Government, such as severely reduced Medicaid and an inability to vote or be represented in any meaningful way in Congress, on top of ignorant people (like such person above who doesn't bother to look into anything and prefers to spew talking points) adding insult to injury.

As usual, mortimer's posts can be readily translated into " dirty ignorant lazy spics are dragging us down".

(1) It's clear Puerto Rico gets more out of their relationship with the US than the US gets out of its relationship with Puerto Rico, (2) that's why support for independence is in the single digits. If you believe Puerto Ricans are being exploited, you necessarily have to think that they're pretty stupid to keep supporting their exploitation. I, of course, realize they aren't being exploited and they're being very savvy by continuing to support "colonization".

(1) False, it isn't. Show that it does; counteract what I pointed out above. I posted data and historical conversations and documents, and you have nothing but talking points.

(2) Support for independence is in the single digits because Puerto Ricans have developed a shared culture and identity with the United States by this point. Many of us feel American as well as Puerto Rican, in the same sense as Texans feel American as well as Texan.

Support for statehood is high because most of us are aware that many of those barriers, such as lack of representation, loss of fiscal control, and budgetary issues, would be torn down with statehood. It's a matter of identity, not political and economic benefit per se, where Puerto Ricans have clearly been getting the short end of the stick for over a century now.

Don't even pretend to begin to understand a people when all you have is bias and an outsider's perception.

Puerto Rico refuses to speak the same language as the rest of the United States. Given that fact, claiming that they want to remain part of the US because of our great "shared culture" is ridiculous.

[Dr. Arch]

Puerto Rico exists solely as a colony to be exploited by its dominating imperial power. That's why their status as US citizens will be downplayed, their bid for statehood will be denied, and whatever resources they have (human and natural) will be extracted and appropriated (almost entirely) by people located in distant power centers. And, thanks to the current method of capitalist domination, they're also experiencing the wonders of crippling debt, high interest rates, and forced privatization while simultaneously being punished with austerity aimed at crippling their lower and working classes for daring to aspire to a modicum of basic human dignity.

If our government couldn't muster a shred of care about all the poor (mostly POC) people abandoned in New Orleans and left to die, flooded by a storm that broke a levee system that was systematically underfunded and carelessly neglected; if our government couldn't be bothered to make the necessary investments in Flint's water infrastructure, even after the lead poisoning occurred, and still neglects the very lives of its own citizens in a US state; what the hell makes anyone think our government would treat Puerto Ricans as if they're actual human beings?

The raw truth. I also believe Puerto Rico is functioning as a lab test for future attempts to implement nationwide austerity to the extreme.

This is so dumb. Puerto Rico contributes nothing in federal taxes but gets billions in federal aid. The federal government is not exploiting Puerto Rico, it's the other way around.

Yeah, because all those payments in Import/Export taxes via the Jones Act are non-existent, which by the way, are mandated to go through a mainland port before it comes to Puerto Rico, even if it's being shipped from a neighboring country like the Dominican Republic. At least get a little bit informed before going on your usual tirades of ignorance so you can circumvent logic like you usually do.

I post this information for the use of others, as I know it will be lost on you (see below).

"As residents of Puerto Rico pay into Social Security, Puerto Ricans are eligible for Social Security benefits upon retirement but are excluded from the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) (Commonwealth of Puerto Rico residents, unlike residents of the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands and residents of the 50 States, do not receive the SSI),[26] and the island actually receives less than 15% of the Medicaid funding it would normally receive if it were a state."

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico#cite_note-26 (via ssa.org)

"A common misconception is that the import/export taxes collected by the U.S. on products manufactured in Puerto Rico are all returned to the Puerto Rico Treasury. That is not the case, as such import/export taxes are returned only for rum products, and even then, the US Treasury keeps a portion of the taxes" (Read: Indirect taxation, and it's quite a lot)

Link: https://www.congress.gov/bill/110th-congress/house-bill/900 (HR-900)

See this reddit thread for a larger discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/4ep8hr/does_puerto_rico_account_for_a_net_benefit_or/


In short, there is plenty of de facto Federal Income tax in Puerto Rico, and it adds up to much more than the average American citizen would pay in any state. It's all hidden behind different names, but it's there. You would feel it if you lived there.

On top of that, you get fractional benefits from the Federal Government, such as severely reduced Medicaid and an inability to vote or be represented in any meaningful way in Congress, on top of ignorant people (like such person above who doesn't bother to look into anything and prefers to spew talking points) adding insult to injury.

As usual, mortimer's posts can be readily translated into " dirty ignorant lazy spics are dragging us down".

(1) It's clear Puerto Rico gets more out of their relationship with the US than the US gets out of its relationship with Puerto Rico, (2) that's why support for independence is in the single digits. If you believe Puerto Ricans are being exploited, you necessarily have to think that they're pretty stupid to keep supporting their exploitation. I, of course, realize they aren't being exploited and they're being very savvy by continuing to support "colonization".

(1) False, it isn't. Show that it does; counteract what I pointed out above. I posted data and historical conversations and documents, and you have nothing but talking points.

(2) Support for independence is in the single digits because Puerto Ricans have developed a shared culture and identity with the United States by this point. Many of us feel American as well as Puerto Rican, in the same sense as Texans feel American as well as Texan.

Support for statehood is high because most of us are aware that many of those barriers, such as lack of representation, loss of fiscal control, and budgetary issues, would be torn down with statehood. It's a matter of identity, not political and economic benefit per se, where Puerto Ricans have clearly been getting the short end of the stick for over a century now.

Don't even pretend to begin to understand a people when all you have is bias and an outsider's perception.

Puerto Rico refuses to speak the same language as the rest of the United States. Given that fact, claiming that they want to remain part of the US because of our great "shared culture" is ridiculous.

English is an official language of the island, and I am Puerto Rican and a native speaker of English. They don't want to abandon Spanish in lieu of English, but speak English all the same, or are you going to argue that we should start kicking out states or parts of the country that have majority Spanish (or other than English) speakers? Wisconsin was dominated by German speakers at one point. Should it had been refused admission to the states?

Again, you're not even bothering to step outside your bubble, as I predicted initially. So this is my last response to you unless you say something worth responding to rather than cycling through the same tired lines.

[Famous Mortimer]

Puerto Rico got 16 billion dollars last year. 7 billion specially for the hurricane. 9 billion they would have gotten anyway.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-puertorico-storm-aid/puerto-rico-says-to-receive-16-billion-in-federal-disaster-aid-idUSKBN1FU00V

The previous year they paid 3.5 billion in various taxes to the US government.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/16db05co.xls

Puerto Rico is poor DESPITE the US government, not because of it.

[Dr. Arch]

Puerto Rico got 16 billion dollars last year. 7 billion specially for the hurricane. 9 billion they would have gotten anyway.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-puertorico-storm-aid/puerto-rico-says-to-receive-16-billion-in-federal-disaster-aid-idUSKBN1FU00V

The previous year they paid 3.5 billion in various taxes to the US government.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/16db05co.xls

Puerto Rico is poor DESPITE the US government, not because of it.

Okay, finally something that can be worked with.

(1) Disaster funds aren't part of the standard budget. Those can't be counted toward any standard taxation anyways because those funds are meant to be used for... disaster recovery... unless you advocate to tax Florida and Texan residents the difference this year for the disaster recovery funds they received last year as well.

(2) Puerto Rico has no control over its fiscal decisions. They literally have no control over the budget other than to make "suggestions." An oversight committee was implemented by the Federal government and fiscal management was stripped from the local government. The committee members are appointed by Congress and the POTUS and do not have the interest of Puerto Rican American citizens at all.

Excess import/export taxes and the exclusion from the standard national budget alongside reduced benefits and representation as well as a lack of self-governance over fiscal decisions create an unsustainable economic situation. It's like trying to fill a bag while someone keeps poking holes in the bottom.

[Famous Mortimer]

Puerto Rico got 16 billion dollars last year. 7 billion specially for the hurricane. 9 billion they would have gotten anyway.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-puertorico-storm-aid/puerto-rico-says-to-receive-16-billion-in-federal-disaster-aid-idUSKBN1FU00V

The previous year they paid 3.5 billion in various taxes to the US government.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/16db05co.xls

Puerto Rico is poor DESPITE the US government, not because of it.

Okay, finally something that can be worked with.

(1) Disaster funds aren't part of the standard budget. Those can't be counted toward any standard taxation anyways because those funds are meant to be used for... disaster recovery... unless you advocate to tax Florida and Texan residents the difference this year for the disaster recovery funds they received last year as well.

(2) Puerto Rico has no control over its fiscal decisions. They literally have no control over the budget other than to make "suggestions." An oversight committee was implemented by the Federal government and fiscal management was stripped from the local government. The committee members are appointed by Congress and the POTUS and do not have the interest of Puerto Rican American citizens at all.

Excess import/export taxes and the exclusion from the standard national budget alongside reduced benefits and representation as well as a lack of self-governance over fiscal decisions create an unsustainable economic situation. It's like trying to fill a bag while someone keeps poking holes in the bottom.

You didn't disprove anything I said.

I knew you were going to point out disaster relief isn't part of the normal budget. That's why I pointed out it was disaster relief myself.

Even taking out the disaster relief, they still got more from the government than they paid in.

Again, you don't seem to even be disputing this.

You seem to have abandoned saying that Puerto Rico is getting shafted in terms of money (because this is an untrue, indefensible position) and now shifted to saying that Puerto Rico is suffering spiritually because they lack autonomy.

Puerto Ricans obviously don't care about the lack of autonomy because they don't support independence.

Most Puerto Ricans reason, quite intelligently, that it is better to get a lot of money from the US that you don't have direct control over, than to exercise total control over your own budget when your own budget is much smaller.

[Dr. Arch]

Puerto Rico got 16 billion dollars last year. 7 billion specially for the hurricane. 9 billion they would have gotten anyway.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-puertorico-storm-aid/puerto-rico-says-to-receive-16-billion-in-federal-disaster-aid-idUSKBN1FU00V

The previous year they paid 3.5 billion in various taxes to the US government.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/16db05co.xls

Puerto Rico is poor DESPITE the US government, not because of it.

Okay, finally something that can be worked with.

(1) Disaster funds aren't part of the standard budget. Those can't be counted toward any standard taxation anyways because those funds are meant to be used for... disaster recovery... unless you advocate to tax Florida and Texan residents the difference this year for the disaster recovery funds they received last year as well.

(2) Puerto Rico has no control over its fiscal decisions. They literally have no control over the budget other than to make "suggestions." An oversight committee was implemented by the Federal government and fiscal management was stripped from the local government. The committee members are appointed by Congress and the POTUS and do not have the interest of Puerto Rican American citizens at all.

Excess import/export taxes and the exclusion from the standard national budget alongside reduced benefits and representation as well as a lack of self-governance over fiscal decisions create an unsustainable economic situation. It's like trying to fill a bag while someone keeps poking holes in the bottom.

You didn't disprove anything I said.

I knew you were going to point out disaster relief isn't part of the normal budget. That's why I pointed out it was disaster relief myself.

Even taking out the disaster relief, they still got more from the government than they paid in.

Again, you don't seem to even be disputing this.

You seem to have abandoned saying that Puerto Rico is getting shafted in terms of money (because this is an untrue, indefensible position) and now shifted to saying that Puerto Rico is suffering spiritually because they lack autonomy.

Puerto Ricans obviously don't care about the lack of autonomy because they don't support independence.

Most Puerto Ricans reason, quite intelligently, that it is better to get a lot of money from the US that you don't have direct control over, than to exercise total control over your own budget when your own budget is much smaller.

(1) You point out that disaster relief doesn't count, yet you still count it as part of your argument. It is disingenuous, so I reiterated the point so that you're forced to clarify on it further.

(2) No, I have not abandoned that position. I still referenced the Import/Export taxes that I originally pointed out, yet you just keep ignoring. It's not a "spiritual" suffering. It's a real political and economic suffering. 

Import/Export taxes are not in that Excel sheet, and they are charged at least twice (once for the mainland port, and once for the port in PR, each of which have a chain reaction on prices and cost of living everywhere).

(3) States have MUCH more control over local governance than a colony like Puerto Rico does. Period. Saying that they don't want autonomy because they want statehood is ignorant of the real sociopolitical and economic situation of the island.

(4) No, most Puerto Ricans, like any other reasonable American, would prefer to have local governance on top of federal funding. You could literally argue this for any state, as any state's budget is smaller than the Federal government's. This is a moot and ineffective point.

[Fuzzy Bear]

English is an official language of the island, and I am Puerto Rican and a native speaker of English. They don't want to abandon Spanish in lieu of English, but speak English all the same, or are you going to argue that we should start kicking out states or parts of the country that have majority Spanish (or other than English) speakers? Wisconsin was dominated by German speakers at one point. Should it had been refused admission to the states?

Again, you're not even bothering to step outside your bubble, as I predicted initially. So this is my last response to you unless you say something worth responding to rather than cycling through the same tired lines.

English is AN official language of Puerto Rico, but not THE official language.  This would make it unique, in that English is the sole language of business and government for all 50 states.  Yes, there were communities in North Dakota that spoke German, and only German, in daily life, but English was still the language of business and government.

I would like to see Puerto Rico as our 51st state, but it should be on a basis where the rest of America does not have to learn Spanish to accommodate Puerto Rico.  It is the responsibility of the entity that wishes to join the Union to make accommodations, not the other way around.  I'm all for people being multi-lingual, but it's not a requirement of American life and shouldn't become one.

[Dr. Arch]

English is an official language of the island, and I am Puerto Rican and a native speaker of English. They don't want to abandon Spanish in lieu of English, but speak English all the same, or are you going to argue that we should start kicking out states or parts of the country that have majority Spanish (or other than English) speakers? Wisconsin was dominated by German speakers at one point. Should it had been refused admission to the states?

Again, you're not even bothering to step outside your bubble, as I predicted initially. So this is my last response to you unless you say something worth responding to rather than cycling through the same tired lines.

English is AN official language of Puerto Rico, but not THE official language.  This would make it unique, in that English is the sole language of business and government for all 50 states.  Yes, there were communities in North Dakota that spoke German, and only German, in daily life, but English was still the language of business and government.

I would like to see Puerto Rico as our 51st state, but it should be on a basis where the rest of America does not have to learn Spanish to accommodate Puerto Rico.  It is the responsibility of the entity that wishes to join the Union to make accommodations, not the other way around.  I'm all for people being multi-lingual, but it's not a requirement of American life and shouldn't become one.

They don't have to? Having is as AN official language means that it can 100% operate in English OR Spanish if it needs to. For further exemplification, consider the table below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Official_languages_of_U.S._states_and_territories

Alaska has over 10 official languages, and English is not among those. Hawaii has more than one official language, with English being one of them (parallel to Puerto Rico). Over a dozen states, including OH, LA, NY, NM, NY, etc., do not have English as their official language at all.

If these states have such policies, then so can Puerto Rico as a state.

[Karpatsky]

English is an official language of the island, and I am Puerto Rican and a native speaker of English. They don't want to abandon Spanish in lieu of English, but speak English all the same, or are you going to argue that we should start kicking out states or parts of the country that have majority Spanish (or other than English) speakers? Wisconsin was dominated by German speakers at one point. Should it had been refused admission to the states?

Again, you're not even bothering to step outside your bubble, as I predicted initially. So this is my last response to you unless you say something worth responding to rather than cycling through the same tired lines.

English is AN official language of Puerto Rico, but not THE official language.  This would make it unique, in that English is the sole language of business and government for all 50 states.  Yes, there were communities in North Dakota that spoke German, and only German, in daily life, but English was still the language of business and government.

I would like to see Puerto Rico as our 51st state, but it should be on a basis where the rest of America does not have to learn Spanish to accommodate Puerto Rico.  It is the responsibility of the entity that wishes to join the Union to make accommodations, not the other way around.  I'm all for people being multi-lingual, but it's not a requirement of American life and shouldn't become one.

Isn't New Mexico officially a bilingual state?

[Dr. Arch]

English is an official language of the island, and I am Puerto Rican and a native speaker of English. They don't want to abandon Spanish in lieu of English, but speak English all the same, or are you going to argue that we should start kicking out states or parts of the country that have majority Spanish (or other than English) speakers? Wisconsin was dominated by German speakers at one point. Should it had been refused admission to the states?

Again, you're not even bothering to step outside your bubble, as I predicted initially. So this is my last response to you unless you say something worth responding to rather than cycling through the same tired lines.

English is AN official language of Puerto Rico, but not THE official language.  This would make it unique, in that English is the sole language of business and government for all 50 states.  Yes, there were communities in North Dakota that spoke German, and only German, in daily life, but English was still the language of business and government.

I would like to see Puerto Rico as our 51st state, but it should be on a basis where the rest of America does not have to learn Spanish to accommodate Puerto Rico.  It is the responsibility of the entity that wishes to join the Union to make accommodations, not the other way around.  I'm all for people being multi-lingual, but it's not a requirement of American life and shouldn't become one.

Isn't New Mexico officially a bilingual state?

It has no official language per se, but it's a de facto yes.

[Fuzzy Bear]

English is an official language of the island, and I am Puerto Rican and a native speaker of English. They don't want to abandon Spanish in lieu of English, but speak English all the same, or are you going to argue that we should start kicking out states or parts of the country that have majority Spanish (or other than English) speakers? Wisconsin was dominated by German speakers at one point. Should it had been refused admission to the states?

Again, you're not even bothering to step outside your bubble, as I predicted initially. So this is my last response to you unless you say something worth responding to rather than cycling through the same tired lines.

English is AN official language of Puerto Rico, but not THE official language.  This would make it unique, in that English is the sole language of business and government for all 50 states.  Yes, there were communities in North Dakota that spoke German, and only German, in daily life, but English was still the language of business and government.

I would like to see Puerto Rico as our 51st state, but it should be on a basis where the rest of America does not have to learn Spanish to accommodate Puerto Rico.  It is the responsibility of the entity that wishes to join the Union to make accommodations, not the other way around.  I'm all for people being multi-lingual, but it's not a requirement of American life and shouldn't become one.

They don't have to? Having is as AN official language means that it can 100% operate in English OR Spanish if it needs to. For further exemplification, consider the table below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Official_languages_of_U.S._states_and_territories

Alaska has over 10 official languages, and English is not among those. Hawaii has more than one official language, with English being one of them (parallel to Puerto Rico). Over a dozen states, including OH, LA, NY, NM, NY, etc., do not have English as their official language at all.

I realize that there is no "official" of the United States, nor is there an "official" language of most states. 

English is the language of business and government, however, and no American citizen should ever be in a position of having to learn another language in order to be able to function in business and education in America.  Anywhere in America. 

What's more, when an American citizen moves from one state to another, they should be operating on the understanding that they will be required to do business and be educated in English. 

[Dr. Arch]

English is an official language of the island, and I am Puerto Rican and a native speaker of English. They don't want to abandon Spanish in lieu of English, but speak English all the same, or are you going to argue that we should start kicking out states or parts of the country that have majority Spanish (or other than English) speakers? Wisconsin was dominated by German speakers at one point. Should it had been refused admission to the states?

Again, you're not even bothering to step outside your bubble, as I predicted initially. So this is my last response to you unless you say something worth responding to rather than cycling through the same tired lines.

English is AN official language of Puerto Rico, but not THE official language.  This would make it unique, in that English is the sole language of business and government for all 50 states.  Yes, there were communities in North Dakota that spoke German, and only German, in daily life, but English was still the language of business and government.

I would like to see Puerto Rico as our 51st state, but it should be on a basis where the rest of America does not have to learn Spanish to accommodate Puerto Rico.  It is the responsibility of the entity that wishes to join the Union to make accommodations, not the other way around.  I'm all for people being multi-lingual, but it's not a requirement of American life and shouldn't become one.

They don't have to? Having is as AN official language means that it can 100% operate in English OR Spanish if it needs to. For further exemplification, consider the table below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Official_languages_of_U.S._states_and_territories

Alaska has over 10 official languages, and English is not among those. Hawaii has more than one official language, with English being one of them (parallel to Puerto Rico). Over a dozen states, including OH, LA, NY, NM, NY, etc., do not have English as their official language at all.

I realize that there is no "official" of the United States, nor is there an "official" language of most states. 

English is the language of business and government, however, and no American citizen should ever be in a position of having to learn another language in order to be able to function in business and education in America.  Anywhere in America. 

What's more, when an American citizen moves from one state to another, they should be operating on the understanding that they will be required to do business and be educated in English. 

It is no different in Puerto Rico than any state with English as an official language, and you could argue Puerto Rico is much better positioned than all of those states that don't even have English as an official language or, in the case of Alaska, have many other languages as an official language, while English is not.

[Fuzzy Bear]

English is an official language of the island, and I am Puerto Rican and a native speaker of English. They don't want to abandon Spanish in lieu of English, but speak English all the same, or are you going to argue that we should start kicking out states or parts of the country that have majority Spanish (or other than English) speakers? Wisconsin was dominated by German speakers at one point. Should it had been refused admission to the states?

Again, you're not even bothering to step outside your bubble, as I predicted initially. So this is my last response to you unless you say something worth responding to rather than cycling through the same tired lines.

English is AN official language of Puerto Rico, but not THE official language.  This would make it unique, in that English is the sole language of business and government for all 50 states.  Yes, there were communities in North Dakota that spoke German, and only German, in daily life, but English was still the language of business and government.

I would like to see Puerto Rico as our 51st state, but it should be on a basis where the rest of America does not have to learn Spanish to accommodate Puerto Rico.  It is the responsibility of the entity that wishes to join the Union to make accommodations, not the other way around.  I'm all for people being multi-lingual, but it's not a requirement of American life and shouldn't become one.

They don't have to? Having is as AN official language means that it can 100% operate in English OR Spanish if it needs to. For further exemplification, consider the table below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Official_languages_of_U.S._states_and_territories

Alaska has over 10 official languages, and English is not among those. Hawaii has more than one official language, with English being one of them (parallel to Puerto Rico). Over a dozen states, including OH, LA, NY, NM, NY, etc., do not have English as their official language at all.

I realize that there is no "official" of the United States, nor is there an "official" language of most states. 

English is the language of business and government, however, and no American citizen should ever be in a position of having to learn another language in order to be able to function in business and education in America.  Anywhere in America. 

What's more, when an American citizen moves from one state to another, they should be operating on the understanding that they will be required to do business and be educated in English. 

It is no different in Puerto Rico than any state with English as an official language, and you could argue Puerto Rico is much better positioned than all of those states that don't even have English as an official language or, in the case of Alaska, have many other languages as an official language, while English is not.

Well, I'm all for statehood, all things considered.

[Dr. Arch]

English is an official language of the island, and I am Puerto Rican and a native speaker of English. They don't want to abandon Spanish in lieu of English, but speak English all the same, or are you going to argue that we should start kicking out states or parts of the country that have majority Spanish (or other than English) speakers? Wisconsin was dominated by German speakers at one point. Should it had been refused admission to the states?

Again, you're not even bothering to step outside your bubble, as I predicted initially. So this is my last response to you unless you say something worth responding to rather than cycling through the same tired lines.

English is AN official language of Puerto Rico, but not THE official language.  This would make it unique, in that English is the sole language of business and government for all 50 states.  Yes, there were communities in North Dakota that spoke German, and only German, in daily life, but English was still the language of business and government.

I would like to see Puerto Rico as our 51st state, but it should be on a basis where the rest of America does not have to learn Spanish to accommodate Puerto Rico.  It is the responsibility of the entity that wishes to join the Union to make accommodations, not the other way around.  I'm all for people being multi-lingual, but it's not a requirement of American life and shouldn't become one.

They don't have to? Having is as AN official language means that it can 100% operate in English OR Spanish if it needs to. For further exemplification, consider the table below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Official_languages_of_U.S._states_and_territories

Alaska has over 10 official languages, and English is not among those. Hawaii has more than one official language, with English being one of them (parallel to Puerto Rico). Over a dozen states, including OH, LA, NY, NM, NY, etc., do not have English as their official language at all.

I realize that there is no "official" of the United States, nor is there an "official" language of most states. 

English is the language of business and government, however, and no American citizen should ever be in a position of having to learn another language in order to be able to function in business and education in America.  Anywhere in America. 

What's more, when an American citizen moves from one state to another, they should be operating on the understanding that they will be required to do business and be educated in English. 

It is no different in Puerto Rico than any state with English as an official language, and you could argue Puerto Rico is much better positioned than all of those states that don't even have English as an official language or, in the case of Alaska, have many other languages as an official language, while English is not.

Well, I'm all for statehood, all things considered.

[Former President tack50]

English is an official language of the island, and I am Puerto Rican and a native speaker of English. They don't want to abandon Spanish in lieu of English, but speak English all the same, or are you going to argue that we should start kicking out states or parts of the country that have majority Spanish (or other than English) speakers? Wisconsin was dominated by German speakers at one point. Should it had been refused admission to the states?

Again, you're not even bothering to step outside your bubble, as I predicted initially. So this is my last response to you unless you say something worth responding to rather than cycling through the same tired lines.

English is AN official language of Puerto Rico, but not THE official language.  This would make it unique, in that English is the sole language of business and government for all 50 states.  Yes, there were communities in North Dakota that spoke German, and only German, in daily life, but English was still the language of business and government.

I would like to see Puerto Rico as our 51st state, but it should be on a basis where the rest of America does not have to learn Spanish to accommodate Puerto Rico.  It is the responsibility of the entity that wishes to join the Union to make accommodations, not the other way around.  I'm all for people being multi-lingual, but it's not a requirement of American life and shouldn't become one.

To be fair, I'd say this is the biggest hurdle in PR becoming a state (as it should if the people there agree). And even then, I guess a worst case scenario would look like Quebec in Canada. Except PR is nowhere near as influencial in the US as Quebec is in Canada.

Puerto Ricans are Americans for better or worse. Just as American as someone from say, New York.

[Badger]

Puerto Rico exists solely as a colony to be exploited by its dominating imperial power. That's why their status as US citizens will be downplayed, their bid for statehood will be denied, and whatever resources they have (human and natural) will be extracted and appropriated (almost entirely) by people located in distant power centers. And, thanks to the current method of capitalist domination, they're also experiencing the wonders of crippling debt, high interest rates, and forced privatization while simultaneously being punished with austerity aimed at crippling their lower and working classes for daring to aspire to a modicum of basic human dignity.

If our government couldn't muster a shred of care about all the poor (mostly POC) people abandoned in New Orleans and left to die, flooded by a storm that broke a levee system that was systematically underfunded and carelessly neglected; if our government couldn't be bothered to make the necessary investments in Flint's water infrastructure, even after the lead poisoning occurred, and still neglects the very lives of its own citizens in a US state; what the hell makes anyone think our government would treat Puerto Ricans as if they're actual human beings?

The raw truth. I also believe Puerto Rico is functioning as a lab test for future attempts to implement nationwide austerity to the extreme.

This is so dumb. Puerto Rico contributes nothing in federal taxes but gets billions in federal aid. The federal government is not exploiting Puerto Rico, it's the other way around.

Yeah, because all those payments in Import/Export taxes via the Jones Act are non-existent, which by the way, are mandated to go through a mainland port before it comes to Puerto Rico, even if it's being shipped from a neighboring country like the Dominican Republic. At least get a little bit informed before going on your usual tirades of ignorance so you can circumvent logic like you usually do.

I post this information for the use of others, as I know it will be lost on you (see below).

"As residents of Puerto Rico pay into Social Security, Puerto Ricans are eligible for Social Security benefits upon retirement but are excluded from the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) (Commonwealth of Puerto Rico residents, unlike residents of the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands and residents of the 50 States, do not receive the SSI),[26] and the island actually receives less than 15% of the Medicaid funding it would normally receive if it were a state."

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico#cite_note-26 (via ssa.org)

"A common misconception is that the import/export taxes collected by the U.S. on products manufactured in Puerto Rico are all returned to the Puerto Rico Treasury. That is not the case, as such import/export taxes are returned only for rum products, and even then, the US Treasury keeps a portion of the taxes" (Read: Indirect taxation, and it's quite a lot)

Link: https://www.congress.gov/bill/110th-congress/house-bill/900 (HR-900)

See this reddit thread for a larger discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/4ep8hr/does_puerto_rico_account_for_a_net_benefit_or/


In short, there is plenty of de facto Federal Income tax in Puerto Rico, and it adds up to much more than the average American citizen would pay in any state. It's all hidden behind different names, but it's there. You would feel it if you lived there.

On top of that, you get fractional benefits from the Federal Government, such as severely reduced Medicaid and an inability to vote or be represented in any meaningful way in Congress, on top of ignorant people (like such person above who doesn't bother to look into anything and prefers to spew talking points) adding insult to injury.

As usual, mortimer's posts can be readily translated into " dirty ignorant lazy spics are dragging us down".

(1) It's clear Puerto Rico gets more out of their relationship with the US than the US gets out of its relationship with Puerto Rico, (2) that's why support for independence is in the single digits. If you believe Puerto Ricans are being exploited, you necessarily have to think that they're pretty stupid to keep supporting their exploitation. I, of course, realize they aren't being exploited and they're being very savvy by continuing to support "colonization".

(1) False, it isn't. Show that it does; counteract what I pointed out above. I posted data and historical conversations and documents, and you have nothing but talking points.

(2) Support for independence is in the single digits because Puerto Ricans have developed a shared culture and identity with the United States by this point. Many of us feel American as well as Puerto Rican, in the same sense as Texans feel American as well as Texan.

Support for statehood is high because most of us are aware that many of those barriers, such as lack of representation, loss of fiscal control, and budgetary issues, would be torn down with statehood. It's a matter of identity, not political and economic benefit per se, where Puerto Ricans have clearly been getting the short end of the stick for over a century now.

Don't even pretend to begin to understand a people when all you have is bias and an outsider's perception.

Puerto Rico refuses to speak the same language as the rest of the United States. Given that fact, claiming that they want to remain part of the US because of our great "shared culture" is ridiculous.

Why is mr. Stormfront not banned yet?

 Oh yeah. This is now considered mainstream political discourse because of trump. So remember kids. On Forum it's okay to be Nazi, but bad bad bad to call someone a Nazi.

For cripes sake, at least ban him because he's invertebrate troll that derails every thread into discussion of immigration.