Afghan government collapse. (user search)
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  Afghan government collapse. (search mode)
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Poll
Question: Will the Afghani people be worse or better off with the US leaving ?
#1
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#2
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 127

Author Topic: Afghan government collapse.  (Read 29154 times)
ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
New Frontier
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,302
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.42, S: -1.22

« on: August 14, 2021, 10:47:22 AM »


Why is China's government so despicable?
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ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
New Frontier
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,302
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.42, S: -1.22

« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2021, 01:16:20 PM »

How many countries will recognize a Taliban-led Afghanistan?
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ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
New Frontier
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,302
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.42, S: -1.22

« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2021, 01:45:35 PM »

Have you forgotten that Vietnam is now considered a quasi-ally by the USA and a possible partner in fighting China, and the war is not an issue whatsoever?
Irrelevant comparison. The North Vietnamese were never remotely in the same stratosphere as the Taliban are.
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ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
New Frontier
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,302
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.42, S: -1.22

« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2021, 09:15:48 PM »

Vietnamese Americans have long held a grudge against Biden because he famously was one of the most strident voices against taking in South Vietnamese collaborators with the U.S. government in 1975, famously saying 'The United States has no obligation to evacuate one, or 100,001 South Vietnamese. Gerald Ford decided that that was immoral and chose to evacuate up to 200,000 refugees. I probably wouldn't be an American today if Biden had had his way in 1975. It also means that I am not surprised by how much this administration has botched this evacuation, particularly of Afghan collaborators at risk of being killed due to their connection to the U.S. The simple explanation, consistent with Biden's track record is that he doesn't care.

Quote
As I recently wrote, Biden has a relevant personal history. In April 1975, as a first-term senator, he was an outspoken opponent of using American money and risking Americans’ safety to rescue the tens of thousands of South Vietnamese who had bet their lives on American promises. “The United States has no obligation to evacuate one, or 100,001, South Vietnamese,” he said in a Senate speech. President Gerald Ford tried to sway Biden by reminding him of the American tradition of welcoming refugees from war and oppression, but Biden was unmoved. Vietnam was a lost cause, and Americans wanted to forget.

As South Vietnam fell, 135,000 endangered Vietnamese were evacuated through the heroic efforts of American officials, military veterans, and private citizens. Ford later said, “To do anything less would, in my opinion, only add moral shame to military humiliation.”

Now I understand the political context in 2021 is different from 1975, and that an influx of Afghan refugees nowadays may be considerably less sympathetic than Vietnamese, Laotian, and Cambodian refugees in 1975. But I do think under a different president than Biden (certainly not under Trump, but under other possible presidents of either party) there may have been a bigger priority placed on making sure there was a better process in place for Afghan resettlement & refugees compared to what is taking place right now, which is basically nothing at all.

EDIT: For anyone looking for a primary source on what was said above, I found it on page 736 of 1393 of the pdf here: https://www.google.com/books/edition/United_States_Congressional_Serial_Set/mh9QAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1

Specifically what Biden said in 1975 was - 'I do not believe the United States has an obligation, moral or otherwise, to evacuate foreign nationals - other than perhaps an estimated 1,800 diplomatic personnel assigned to foreign embassies in Saigon. The United States has no obligation to evacuate one, or 100,001, South Vietnamese. As I read the language of the bill, the evacuation of Americans in South Vietnam conceivably could be endangered because of the provisions also permitting the evacuation of untold numbers of foreign nationals. The President's representatives inform us that as many as 175,000 South Vietnamese are considered eligible for evacuation.'
Just asking, did you vote for Biden? Also, if you don't mind, what about your family as well? Who did they vote for last year?
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ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
New Frontier
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,302
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.42, S: -1.22

« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2021, 11:18:48 PM »

Sure no problem. I've voted for the Democratic candidate my whole life.

My mom became a citizen in 1997. She's pretty far-left (big Bernie fan) who usually votes for the Democrat unless she is disgruntled with them and wants to register a protest vote in California. Her record is Nader, Kerry, Obama, Stein, Clinton, Biden. This is quite atypical for an old Vietnamese person.

My dad was a lifelong Republican because he thought they were more anti-Communist (his parents had their land expropriated and they were imprisoned by the North Vietnamese in the 1950s. The whole family later fled to South Vietnam). For reasons I still don't entirely understand he then voted for Obama in 2012 and Hillary in 2016. However he switched back to Trump in 2020, out of support for Trump's anti-China posturing and a strong dislike of Biden.
Very interesting. Thank you for the response!
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ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
New Frontier
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,302
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.42, S: -1.22

« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2021, 11:19:38 PM »


This.....is.....brutal.
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ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
New Frontier
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,302
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.42, S: -1.22

« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2021, 02:41:37 PM »

The Taliban didn't exist during the Soviet-Afghan War.
True. However, after the war some members of the mujahideen ended up forming the original incarnation of the Taliban (and al-Qaeda).
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