Who do you blame more for the shutdown? (user search)
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  Who do you blame more for the shutdown? (search mode)
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Poll
Question: ...
#1
Obama/Democrats (D)
 
#2
Obama/Democrats (R)
 
#3
Obama/Democrats (I/O)
 
#4
Republicans (D)
 
#5
Republicans (R)
 
#6
Republicans (I/O)
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 145

Author Topic: Who do you blame more for the shutdown?  (Read 11504 times)
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« on: October 01, 2013, 02:36:57 AM »


If you wait until the GOP returns to sanity, it'll be some years before you sport a blue avatar again.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 10:10:37 AM »

Both parties. Both parties could have stopped the shutdown by acquiescing to the demands of the other, and both refused. The only way to say the GOP solely is to say that it's patently unreasonable to want to repeal Obamacare.

Wrong.  It's perfectly reasonable that they would want to.  But to shut down the government in an effort to get their way on this issue, or on any issue, is not at all reasonable.

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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 06:39:09 PM »

Senate Democrats and Obama. 70% of Americans oppose Obamacare. 

Where are you getting that statistic from?  And a strong majority of Americans do not approve of defunding Obamacare if it leads to a shutdown.

I was prepared to make a snide comment that 70% of "real" Americans oppose the Affordable Care Act, but the polling shows that opposition among whites is in the high 50's and opposition among Republicans is well over 80%.  So it can't be the first group, nor can it really be the second group since right now they are unreal rather than real. So yeah, it looks like this was a SWAG on the part of JCL.

Unfortunately, while an overwhelming majority is opposed to using a government shutdown as a tactic, according to the polls, a bare majority of Republicans approve of this.  While I hope I'm wrong, I would not be surprised to see this shutdown last a while, possibly until the debt ceiling replaces it as the immediate concern in a couple weeks.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2013, 07:14:22 PM »

Unfortunately, while an overwhelming majority is opposed to using a government shutdown as a tactic, according to the polls, a bare majority of Republicans approve of this.  While I hope I'm wrong, I would not be surprised to see this shutdown last a while, possibly until the debt ceiling replaces it as the immediate concern in a couple weeks.

Where are you seeing that?  The last poll I saw showed a plurality of Republicans (49%) opposed defunding Obamacare if it led to a government shutdown, with 30-something percent favoring it.

The Quinnpiac poll (Questions 38 and 39) released today has Republicans supporting a shutdown 49-44 and supporting using the debt ceiling 52-39 if it will lead to a defunding of Obamacare.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2013, 11:17:43 PM »

None of the above. The drafters of the Constitution are the ones at fault. There is no individual responsibility for Members of Congress, especially in instances where the Executive and Legislature are controlled by different parties.

The framers failed to anticipate parties, or rather to the extent they did, they considered them evil.  The situation we're facing with a government shutdown and the looming debt ceiling battle would essentially be impossible if we had 535 Independent Congressmen
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2013, 07:54:26 AM »

None of the above. The drafters of the Constitution are the ones at fault. There is no individual responsibility for Members of Congress, especially in instances where the Executive and Legislature are controlled by different parties.

The framers failed to anticipate parties, or rather to the extent they did, they considered them evil.  The situation we're facing with a government shutdown and the looming debt ceiling battle would essentially be impossible if we had 535 Independent Congressmen

I don't think that would make much of a difference.  Surely 535 non-partisan members of Congress would divide and organize themselves ideologically, no?

Of course they would, but they likely wouldn't form themselves into two monolithic blocks without parties.  You'd get something more analogous to a multi-party system, and in such a case, what are now the moderate Republicans would be more easily be able to break with the Tea Partiers and vote for sanity.  (There also would likely be less gerrymandering without parties.)
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2013, 08:04:37 AM »

Unfortunately, while an overwhelming majority is opposed to using a government shutdown as a tactic, according to the polls, a bare majority of Republicans approve of this.  While I hope I'm wrong, I would not be surprised to see this shutdown last a while, possibly until the debt ceiling replaces it as the immediate concern in a couple weeks.

Where are you seeing that?  The last poll I saw showed a plurality of Republicans (49%) opposed defunding Obamacare if it led to a government shutdown, with 30-something percent favoring it.

The Quinnpiac poll (Questions 38 and 39) released today has Republicans supporting a shutdown 49-44 and supporting using the debt ceiling 52-39 if it will lead to a defunding of Obamacare.

I hate to nitpick, but 49% is not a majority.

It's within the margin of error, especially since I suspect some of those opposed or uncertain of using the continuing resolution as their weapon do so because they think they have more clout with the debt ceiling.  More importantly, the distinction between plurality and majority isn't really relevant in a poll that allows "No answer" as an option.
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