Is fornication sinful?

[Simfan34]

Almost certainly, but that doesn't stop most of us (myself included) from attempting to persuade ourselves otherwise.

[Simfan34]

How many people who have posted here have had sex?

Well, I for one haven't, and in all honesty sex has become less and less appealing to me as time goes on, probably because I'm becoming less idle than I used to be and have better goals to think about.  So, whether I die a virgin or not is of zero concern to me.  I don't see how that discredits an honest, personal opinion, though.

As someone who was in your camp until recently, let me say that when someone special invades the camp of celibacy and drags you away into the camp of intimacy, I think you'll likely find that your only regret at that time will be that you weren't invaded sooner.

That sounds romantic and cute and all but I think the Bible, not to mention the Church, is very clear about this. It'd be nice and all but I think it's all very cut and dry. Very cut and dry.

Do I like it? Not particularly. Am I morally upstanding about this? I don't know. It's a conflict.

[Simfan34]

Please respond.

[Simfan34]

How many people who have posted here have had sex?

Your attempted person-shaming is entirely beyond the point. Do I need to have taken krokodil in order for my opinion of it to be worthwhile, or to be an alcoholic to have an opinion of alcoholism?

[Simfan34]

I guess my post got TL;DR'ed?

I'll admit to not entirely understanding it. If not love, then what is the basis of marriage? Are you saying that it is sex? Because, at least to me, the idea of the basis of marriage being its monopoly over sexual activity strikes me as very, well... bad.

[Simfan34]

How many people who have posted here have had sex?

Well, I for one haven't, and in all honesty sex has become less and less appealing to me as time goes on, probably because I'm becoming less idle than I used to be and have better goals to think about.  So, whether I die a virgin or not is of zero concern to me.  I don't see how that discredits an honest, personal opinion, though.

As someone who was in your camp until recently, let me say that when someone special invades the camp of celibacy and drags you away into the camp of intimacy, I think you'll likely find that your only regret at that time will be that you weren't invaded sooner.

That sounds romantic and cute and all but I think the Bible, not to mention the Church, is very clear about this. It'd be nice and all but I think it's all very cut and dry. Very cut and dry.

Do I like it? Not particularly. Am I morally upstanding about this? I don't know. It's a conflict.

Note this. Just because you want to do something does not make it right. Would I, given the chance, bludgeon Mengistu Hailemariam to death with a concrete block? I would. Does that make it the moral thing to do? Of course not. Just because sex is nice, pleasurable, emotionally fulfilling, what have you, does not make it acceptable in the eyes of God. The Bible is very clear on this. If not fornication, adultery- which includes premarital sex (as far as the Church is concerned, at the very least)- is considered a grave sin. There really is no argument here.

[Simfan34]

Ernest, how do you reconcile your view that it is not sinful with what is in the Bible?

Furthermore I feel abstinence shows a certain maturity- after all, isn't self-denial and restraint part of maturity? For the same reason one would not eat a cake if you were trying to lose weight, or even on any occasion.

[Simfan34]

Ernest, how do you reconcile your view that it is not sinful with what is in the Bible?

Furthermore I feel abstinence shows a certain maturity- after all, isn't self-denial and restraint part of maturity? For the same reason one would not eat a cake if you were trying to lose weight, or even on any occasion.

Simple, I don't have to reconcile that because that's not my view.  My view is not that fornication is not sinful, but that relationships that under our legal system are today considered fornication would not be considered fornication but a form of marriage back when not all marriages were sanctified by either the state or a church.

If I was dating someone, how would this be construed as marriage?

[Simfan34]

Interesting. Where does the line fall though? Non-cohabitation? Relative brevity? A one-night stand?

[Simfan34]

Yes, but where does he (or you or one in general) draw the line?

I mean, do I want to engage in casual activity? Sure? Do I want to have a nice big slice of chocolate cake? Yes. Do I want to sleep until two in the afternoon? Of course. But does that make any of that the right thing to do? No.

[Simfan34]

I mean there is the "gut" feeling of it being wrong. But then there is the strong, if not completely unambiguous, scriptural support for its sinfulness. Looking at that way, we are really all playing the same "game" here, and attempting to deal in absolutes.

I mean it's very easy to say on the face of it that consensual, casual sex is "harmless" provided one is safe about it. But the idea of something being morally acceptable simply because both parties consent to it is something completely abhorrent- it isn't a morality at all but rather a total relativism.

So there are two things working against it- the first being a feeling of maturity and morality associated with the self-denial and restraint of abstinence, and the clear Biblical condemnation. Indeed, it almost seems like the ultimate temptation, a flagrant invitation to sin. And perhaps a rather personal third- a wholesale perception of the whole thing being exceptionally vulgar.

But I mean, there is no escaping it!- it is wrong. Completely and totally wrong. And yet here we are, with wild urges. One has to ensure he is not "carried away and enticed by his own lust." (James 1:14)

[Simfan34]

Ernest- I feel my point still stands if we translate "lust" as "desire". (Also, it's the revised American). One must resist being carried away by desires of any sort, whether they be sexual or culinary.

The fact is your definition of marriage is drastically different from mine. So I think that's whence the disagreement stems.

But then again you go to a UU church, do you not?

[Simfan34]

Well, I'm sure that's the majority opinion here as well- just that not a lot of people are taking part.