Should John Muhammad be executed?

[Joe Republic]

My gripe is merely with those whose religious beliefs govern their support for the death penalty, at the detriment of others who want to see murderers actually punished sufficiently.  As I've indicated, I consider execution to be tantamount to letting them off the hook.

As I suggested earlier, that's an odd way of viewing it: "Most people, if forced to pick, would prefer imprisonment even to mere extinction."

Which people?  Ordinary citizens, or convicted murderers?

If the former, then I'm glad you feel that I'm in the majority opinion.  If the latter, then it's most likely either due to their own fears of some kind of supernatural punishment after their execution, or even more likely that by being kept alive they at least have some hope of being released.

[A18]

I meant the average person, though of course with respect to his own fate—not that of Muhammad or some other convict. I assume that the average murderer has the same attitude. Few instincts are as powerful as the one that urges a person to preserve his life.

I doubt whether many people on death row entertain serious hope of ever being released. Some might fear the wrath of God, but is there any evidence that a substantial number do? (I particularly doubt that this man does.) The most natural inference is that they prefer life in a cell to no life at all.

But even granting your assumption, death doesn't amount to being "let off the hook." If he prefers life to death on either of those grounds, he nonetheless prefers life to death; and the prospect of losing it can only grieve him greatly.

[Deldem]

No, nobody should be executed for any reason, mentally stable or not.

This and the burn in hell option.

This.

[Joe Republic]

I meant the average person, though of course with respect to his own fate—not that of Muhammad or some other convict. I assume that the average murderer has the same attitude. Few instincts are as powerful as the one that urges a person to preserve his life.

I doubt whether many people on death row entertain serious hope of ever being released. Some might fear the wrath of God, but is there any evidence that a substantial number do? (I particularly doubt that this man does.) The most natural inference is that they prefer life in a cell to no life at all.

But even granting your assumption, death doesn't amount to being "let off the hook." If he prefers life to death on either of those grounds, he nonetheless prefers life to death; and the prospect of losing it can only grieve him greatly.

I think the objective is for incarceration for serious offences to be considered a fate worse than death; something that I realize is not exactly accurate in today's society.  My assertion that execution is to let them off the hook is to imply that we are removing the chance to make them really suffer for their crimes.

The fact that most people instinctively prefer life over death is merely a convenient factor in this goal.  Just because they want to live doesn't mean I would therefore deprive them of it simply out of spite.  There are multiple ways to help them regret that instinct.  

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I think the objective is for incarceration for serious offences to be considered a fate worse than death; something that I realize is not exactly accurate in today's society.  My assertion that execution is to let them off the hook is to imply that we are removing the chance to make them really suffer for their crimes.

Straying away from Muhammad, Joe, I think your point is very well taken.  A friend of mine's husband is in Holman Correctional Facility in AL on death row.......life is far from horrible as many would want it to be for a man who raped and killed a teenager, and it's not going to get any more horrible, sadly.

For me, he's another character I'll be glad to see enter the death chamber.

[Earth]

No, absolutely not.

[Brandon H]

Guess the discussion is over.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well he's dead already, but I voted 2 and 3.

Anything who thinks prison can't be a fate worse than death ought to read up on ADX Florence.

[2952-0-0]

I'd let him live, but require him to meet the relative of his victims every once in a while.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

He should have been hanged, drawn and quartered.

[memphis]

Although I tend to have some reservations about the death penalty, this is obviously a case of burn in hell, prick.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Well he's dead already, but I voted 2 and 3.

Anything who thinks prison can't be a fate worse than death ought to read up on ADX Florence.

I didn't think about that - but he wanted to live too much - I wouldn't want to give him that satisfaction.

[Lief 🗽]

Anything who thinks prison can't be a fate worse than death ought to read up on ADX Florence.

Jesus Christ. That's one of the most terrifying things I've ever read about.

[Frodo]

Well he has been executed as of 9:11 PM (EST), and good riddance.  I would have much preferred to have had him fried in an electric chair, though...have him suffer a bit.  Lethal injections seem so anti-climatic and unsatisfying.  

[KuntaKinte]

I would have much preferred to have had him fried in an electric chair, though...have him suffer a bit.  Lethal injections seem so anti-climatic and unsatisfying. 

Pervert.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     No. The state should not have the power to execute anyone.

[opebo]

Oddly enough, I believe in Rehabilitation - not so much in the sense that it can be planned, devised, or predicted, but just that it is fairly obvious that the man being executed will have changed significantly from the one who did the sniping.  Who knows what he's like now?  We can only guess.

In any case, I wasn't particularly riled by the crimes.  In the first place as has been said above, this man does probably meet the definition of 'mentally ill'.  (though obviously that definition is quite dubious).  Whether we call his condition mental illness or just an unusual response, it seems clear to me that it was caused by society - various abuses that were imposed upon this man.

And in the second place its worth noting that there is something a bit, well, less offensive (I hope I don't offend anyone by saying so) about such very distant, detached killings.  The snipers killed fairly efficiently and with less 'suffering' than many other killers. 

[Joe Republic]

Anything who thinks prison can't be a fate worse than death ought to read up on ADX Florence.

That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.  Anybody convicted of murder should be treated the same way as those inmates.  That's far more of a punishment than just simply killing them and having done with it.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Anything who thinks prison can't be a fate worse than death ought to read up on ADX Florence.

That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.  Anybody convicted of murder should be treated the same way as those inmates.  That's far more of a punishment than just simply killing them and having done with it.

Yes, and frankly if all of the prisons for murderers were like ADX Florence I'd be up for it in many cases....but they're not.

[Frodo]

I would have much preferred to have had him fried in an electric chair, though...have him suffer a bit.  Lethal injections seem so anti-climatic and unsatisfying. 

Pervert.

LOL -it was late at night, I was tired, and I made a few bad word choices.  You know full well that is not how I intended it to sound when I typed them.   

[Scam of God]

I would have much preferred to have had him fried in an electric chair, though...have him suffer a bit.  Lethal injections seem so anti-climatic and unsatisfying. 

Pervert.

LOL -it was late at night, I was tired, and I made a few bad word choices.  You know full well that is not how I intended it to sound when I typed them.   

I doubt it. Most barbarians sexualize the experience of death, to make it easier for them to digest and not experience bad dreams.

[Holmes]

Either way, he'll get his.

[Mint]

Well he has been executed as of 9:11 PM (EST), and good riddance.  I would have much preferred to have had him fried in an electric chair, though...have him suffer a bit.  Lethal injections seem so anti-climatic and unsatisfying.  

I feel sick replying to you but it's a myth that lethal injection isn't painful. Potassium chloride is known to be excruciating by itself. That's why they give people sodium thiopental as an anesthetic, but if that wears off/isn't adequately applied with the other 2 parts of the 'cocktail' you're basically rendered paralyzed and undergoing what feels like torture for whatever time it takes for you to die.

[Frodo]

Well he has been executed as of 9:11 PM (EST), and good riddance.  I would have much preferred to have had him fried in an electric chair, though...have him suffer a bit.  Lethal injections seem so anti-climatic and unsatisfying.  

I feel sick replying to you

While I made some bad word choices, I don't regret the sentiment behind my post -that man was undeniably guilty for the crime for which he was convicted and executed for, and I have no qualms about taking satisfaction in his death.  I guarantee I won't react any differently if the Fort Hood shooter meets the same fate...

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Fine.  

[Scam of God]

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So you're a weakling, a slave to popular passions.

Fine.