Should the United States fully adopt the metric system?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Only if we also incorporate units of time that are also divisible by 10, and get rid of this seconds/minutes/hours nonsense.

I'd support this.

[angus]

     In an ideal world, yes. In reality, it would be difficult for many people to adjust to kilometers instead of miles and kilograms instead of pounds.

Hmmm.  I couldn't resist responding.

First, I can't say that I think this is problematic.  On my second visit to China, for example, I knew that the scale in the pediatrician's office was calibrated in kilograms.  I knew that my son should be about 35 kg.  I knew that if he's only at 32, something is wrong.  When I get back home, I know that the scale in the pediatrician's office weighs in pounds.  I know what his weight in pounds should be and the number of pounds that he might lose from skipping a meal or playing too hard, and the number of pounds that would worry me.  Similarly, I know that when the Japanese authorities board my plane at Narita International Airport with their space suits and high-tech infrared temperature probes to see if the nasty yanks need to be quarantined, they pass out placards in English and Japanese announcing that anyone who has a temperature greater than 38 degrees will be required to stay at a special "hotel" for a few days before being allowed to wander the streets of Tokyo.  It's the over-reaction by the authorities that causes stress, but not the fact that they're using centigrade units of temperature. 

It works the other way as well.  I've had foreign visitors who at first are a little confused, but by the end of the week they know what it means to "drive 75" or "weigh 150" or have "a fever of 102."  I had a visitor from Amsterdam who worked in my lab for a few months and on his first trip to the coffee/snack room he noticed the little spigot that read "Caution:  190° water.  Very hot."  He was astonished!  Then, after a few seconds he smiled.  A little epiphany occurred, and he understood quickly that the spigot did not contain some special super-heated liquid water, but rather water heated to very near its boiling point.  What he found more bizarre, apparently, was the use of fractions on the streetsigns instead of decimals.  He quickly got used to miles but he never really did get used to "Exit 1/2 mile" or "Exit 3/4 mile."  Apparently the use of fractions on the signs really bothered him more than the use of a different unit.

I'm sure that you regularly measure volumes in milliliters when you're working in the lab, and perhaps distances in meters.  We all do.  However, it doesn't cause confusion for you when you have to decide whether you want a photo enlarged to, say, 8 by 10, or 11 by 14 (inches). 

Kilometers is different issue.  It has four syllables.  I avoid using the word whenever possible.  "thousandmeters" has the same number of syllables and is more phonetically pleasing, in my opinion.  If I'm discussing the ozone layer or the tropopause or something like that, I always say "about 20 thousand meters above mean sea level" rather than "about 20 kilometers above mean sea level."  Of course, if I'm renting a car in Mexico, I get into the habit of asking "kilometraje ilimitado?" and the like, but I regard that more a function of thinking in Spanish rather than thinking in the metric system.

I do wish everyone would switch to the SI unit of temperature, because you know you're going to need to convert everything to Kelvins to apply thermodynamic laws, even qualitatively.  As far as I know, no TV or radio weather reporter uses it.  In some places they use Fahrenheit and in others Celcius.  Celcius has the major advantage that it's easier to convert to Kelvins in your head.  Fahrenheit has the minor advantage that its gradations are much closer, so you get a finer scale.  As Ernest pointed out, an even finer scale would be better, but we could just use millikelvins, microkelvins, or nanokelvins if necessary.  Of course Rankine units also allow you to use thermodynamic laws, and will allow you to skip the step of conversion from Fahrenheit to Celcius.  For example, if you're thinking about Charles' law, and you're on a beach far away from a calculator and you just need to do some math in your head--of course, if you're starting with Celcius, then it makes sense to use Kelvins for the application--but if you're starting with Fahrenheit, why not go into Rankine for the application?   

I really think y'all are overthinking this.  It's a simple matter.  Here are salient points to consider:

(1) The US has already adopted the international system, and all of our common units are based on precise definitions. 

(2)  Any system of measurement is a "metric system" because by definition a metric system is a collection of units for measurement, so it's not like there's the metric system.  The English units form a metric system as well. 

(3)  There are practical advantages (and disadvantages) of having multiple units in use, but the advantages of being able to choose which is more convenient outweigh any perceived disadvantages. 

(4)  Certainly children in school should be taught to use SI units of measure, because they will certainly encounter them in the world, but we should not neglect their education in English units as well, for they will encounter them as well. 

(5)  International commerce has been pointed out, but international commerce has not been impeded by different units.  If we can convert dollars to drachmas, then we can convert tons to tonnes.  For example, oil prices are and always has been quoted in U.S. Dollars per barrel, no matter who is doing the buying and who is doing the selling.  The very non-standard unit of the barrel (42 US gallons, or 35 imperial gallons) has become the standard, and there's no need to convert it to cubic meters or liters or anything else. 

(6)  It is the reproducibility (precision) and the accuracy (quality) of a measurement that matters most, not the unit in which those measurements are reported.  So long as you actually write the units on the report, and so long as those units are understood by the readers of your report, then you should be free to use whichever units you find convenient.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Only if we also incorporate units of time that are also divisible by 10, and get rid of this seconds/minutes/hours nonsense.

I'd support this.

Why? In some significant respects base 60 is superior to base 10.  Also there's nothing preventing you from using kiloseconds (16⅔ min) or megaseconds (11.5[740] days) if you want to. It's not something I'd want to pick up since I'm already halfway thru my second gigasecond.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I really think y'all are overthinking this.  It's a simple matter.  Here are salient points to consider:

5000 words and you missed the most important point.  If you know how much liquid is in a 750ML bottle of Grey Goose, why in the f[inks] would you have trouble with the metric system? 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Only if we also incorporate units of time that are also divisible by 10, and get rid of this seconds/minutes/hours nonsense.

I'd support this.

Why? In some significant respects base 60 is superior to base 10.  Also there's nothing preventing you from using kiloseconds (16⅔ min) or megaseconds (11.5[740] days) if you want to. It's not something I'd want to pick up since I'm already halfway thru my second gigasecond.

Indeed, base 12 is very mathematically superior to base 10, so base 60 works well too as 12 is a divisor of it.

[angus]

I really think y'all are overthinking this.  It's a simple matter.  Here are salient points to consider:

5000 words and you missed the most important point.  If you know how much liquid is in a 750ML bottle of Grey Goose, why in the f[inks] would you have trouble with the metric system?  

Ha!  I guess my posts really are too long to read.  In my second post I mentioned that booze was sold by the milliliter.  

Making the standard wine, vodka, and booze bottles 750 mL makes sense because they were previously a fifth of a gallon, which is 757 mL.  They could charge the same price and sell less product, thereby increasing profit.  Liquor distributors had no problem making that change long ago.  The 750-mL bottle has been around for as long as I can remember.

The harder change for them was to stop making quarts (946 mL) and start making liters (1000 mL) because they'd either charge the same price (and gain less revenue) or have to raise the price and piss off customers.  Eventually they opted for the 1.75-liter bottle to replace the half gallon (1.89 liters).  Charged the same price for a 1.75 liter as they did for a half gallon.  Problem solved.

FWIW, just yesterday I got a 750-mL bottle of tequila and a 750-mL bottle of cointreau and a 325-gram container of coarse salt at the liquor store.  Then I went to the supermarket next door and bought five limes (sold at 20 cents per lime rather than by mass) and a small, 4-fluid ounce bottle of lime juice.  Gonna be a margarita weekend.  I have a stack of 35 statistical thermodynamics exams to grade, and I'm sure I'll be thinking plenty about Joules and Pascals and Kelvins and grand canonical partition functions.  Wouldn't want to be without a decent stock of booze to cure that headache.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I really think y'all are overthinking this.  It's a simple matter.  Here are salient points to consider:

5000 words and you missed the most important point.  If you know how much liquid is in a 750ML bottle of Grey Goose, why in the f[inks] would you have trouble with the metric system?  

Ha!  I guess my posts really are too long to read.  In my second post I mentioned that booze was sold by the milliliter.  

Making the standard wine, vodka, and booze bottles 750 mL makes sense because they were previously a fifth of a gallon, which is 757 mL.  They could charge the same price and sell less product, thereby increasing profit.  Liquor distributors had no problem making that change long ago.  The 750-mL bottle has been around for as long as I can remember.

The harder change for them was to stop making quarts (946 mL) and start making liters (1000 mL) because they'd either charge the same price (and gain less revenue) or have to raise the price and piss off customers.  Eventually they opted for the 1.75-liter bottle to replace the half gallon (1.89 liters).  Charged the same price for a 1.75 liter as they did for a half gallon.  Problem solved.

FWIW, just yesterday I got a 750-mL bottle of tequila and a 750-mL bottle of cointreau and a 325-gram container of coarse salt at the liquor store.  Then I went to the supermarket next door and bought five limes (sold at 20 cents per lime rather than by mass) and a small, 4-fluid ounce bottle of lime juice.  Gonna be a margarita weekend.  I have a stack of 35 statistical thermodynamics exams to grade, and I'm sure I'll be thinking plenty about Joules and Pascals and Kelvins and grand canonical partition functions.  Wouldn't want to be without a decent stock of booze to cure that headache.

Amen, brother.  Statistical thermodynamics was always a boring subject for me. 

[politicallefty]

Yes, absolutely. I'd put temperature on the very back burner, as that is the most nonsensical metric measurement and probably the hardest to push on the general public. We're basically stuck at this point. We've already adopted many metric volume measurements. I think transition requires dual-measurements for some time before full adoption takes place. That'd require a change in law, as the Republican Congress in 1995 made sure that the federal government cannot mandate metric signs on US highways. In terms of food products, I think transition would be pretty easy, as metric measurements are already on everything.

[ingemann]

Yes, absolutely. I'd put temperature on the very back burner, as that is the most nonsensical metric measurement and probably the hardest to push on the general public. We're basically stuck at this point. We've already adopted many metric volume measurements. I think transition requires dual-measurements for some time before full adoption takes place. That'd require a change in law, as the Republican Congress in 1995 made sure that the federal government cannot mandate metric signs on US highways. In terms of food products, I think transition would be pretty easy, as metric measurements are already on everything.

Good point while Celcius make more sense than Fahrenheit (thanks to the Celcius connection to Kelvin), it only make marginal more sense, so a shift are not worth it.

[Link]

We also have a lot of products already manufactured on the expectation of English units.

You mean like 2 Liter Cokes?  If the troglodytes that consume liters of grape soda at a time can figure it out I'm pretty sure the general population will get it.

[patrick1]

We also have a lot of products already manufactured on the expectation of English units.

You mean like 2 Liter Cokes?  If the troglodytes that consume liters of grape soda at a time can figure it out I'm pretty sure the general population will get it.

racist.

[Link]

We also have a lot of products already manufactured on the expectation of English units.

You mean like 2 Liter Cokes?  If the troglodytes that consume liters of grape soda at a time can figure it out I'm pretty sure the general population will get it.

racist.

Classist perhaps.

[greenforest32]

Yes. The cooking measurements are some of the most annoying. A tea spoon of this, a table spoon of that, a cup of this, a horsepower of that.

It's isolated, I can't intuitively compare what these mean in relation to other things.

[patrick1]

We also have a lot of products already manufactured on the expectation of English units.

You mean like 2 Liter Cokes?  If the troglodytes that consume liters of grape soda at a time can figure it out I'm pretty sure the general population will get it.

racist.

Classist perhaps.

A joke based on a racial stereotype. Black people love grape soda you see.

[Link]

We also have a lot of products already manufactured on the expectation of English units.

You mean like 2 Liter Cokes?  If the troglodytes that consume liters of grape soda at a time can figure it out I'm pretty sure the general population will get it.

racist.

Classist perhaps.

A joke based on a racial stereotype. Black people love grape soda you see.

Got it.  I guess that's the problem with stereotypes... a lot of the time they don't match up with real world experience.

[Ban my account ffs!]

We also have a lot of products already manufactured on the expectation of English units.

You mean like 2 Liter Cokes?  If the troglodytes that consume liters of grape soda at a time can figure it out I'm pretty sure the general population will get it.

racist.

Classist perhaps.

A joke based on a racial stereotype. Black people love grape soda you see.

Got it.  I guess that's the problem with stereotypes... a lot of the time they don't match up with real world experience.

Except when they do and you just don't realize it.

[patrick1]

We also have a lot of products already manufactured on the expectation of English units.

You mean like 2 Liter Cokes?  If the troglodytes that consume liters of grape soda at a time can figure it out I'm pretty sure the general population will get it.

racist.

Classist perhaps.

A joke based on a racial stereotype. Black people love grape soda you see.

Got it.  I guess that's the problem with stereotypes... a lot of the time they don't match up with real world experience.

It is even some known and trite that the Family Guy writers used it.

[dead0man]

and it's not just grape, black people love all kinds of "fruity" sodas.  Orange, "red", others.

[Mr. Morden]

Only if we also incorporate units of time that are also divisible by 10, and get rid of this seconds/minutes/hours nonsense.

I'd support this.

Why? In some significant respects base 60 is superior to base 10.  Also there's nothing preventing you from using kiloseconds (16⅔ min) or megaseconds (11.5[740] days) if you want to. It's not something I'd want to pick up since I'm already halfway thru my second gigasecond.

Indeed, base 12 is very mathematically superior to base 10, so base 60 works well too as 12 is a divisor of it.

That's fine.  But then we should change everything to base 12 or base 60 or whatever.  Using it only for time, but using base 10 for other quantities is ridiculous.

[dead0man]

Indeed, all we would need would be two new, single digits to represent 10 and 11.  And A,B (as in Hexadecimal math) wouldn't cut it.

[Zanas]

Indeed, all we would need would be two new, single digits to represent 10 and 11.  And A,B (as in Hexadecimal math) wouldn't cut it.

Base 12 is actually very easy to count on your hands. Take your thumb and place it alternatively on each of your four other fingers' three phalanges. People have been counting to 12 this way for as long as counting to 10 with both hands.

Plus you can count to 12x12 using both hands.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I enjoy an excuse to post this, so why not:

Only if we also incorporate units of time that are also divisible by 10, and get rid of this seconds/minutes/hours nonsense.

I'd support this.

Isn't that basically Swatch Internet Time?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Actually, Fahrenheit is not at all arbitrary.  It just uses a not as obvious zero as Celsius. The zero point was determined by a frigorific mixture of equal parts of ice, water, and ammonium chloride.  He placed the freezing point at thirty-two degrees, because that too was a reproducible temperature.  As for why thirty-two and not a decimal value? Fahrenheit wanted a power of two because it would simplify marking his thermometers. It is is easy to bisect a line precisely. Not at all easy to decisect a line.  Given the binary nature of the Fahrenheit scale, is it not the ideal scale for today's computer age?

Also, given how much it varies with atmospheric pressure, the boiling point of water is a horrible reference point if you are trying to calibrate a thermometer with it.  Modern temperature references do not any boiling points as reference points.

[Repub242]

No, I believe we should stick with the current system.