Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[StateBoiler]

I think it's interesting that yet another Serious Conservative Party has fallen to the 4chanisation of right of centre politics. It's a very strange sociopathy.

The party needs to be moderate to have any success, but the party isn't interested in being moderate. O'Toole lied to win the primary and then pivoted to the center during the election...

Yet they still lost and their share of the vote did not increase at all. You're telling them to do a strategy that just failed. Anybody that wants the Conservative Party to move left should've in hindsight voted for the Conservatives this past election. They would've lost their most right-wing voters to Bernier's party and would've still won, giving the resulting O'Toole ministry the strength to  stand up against what those voters said since they won without them, and would've resulted in Trudeau being removed from power when it's clear the Liberals are late in their time in power and out of ideas for how Trudeau has to govern when he's plausibly been the worst Prime Minister of Canada post-World War II removing the ones that never had a chance to govern in Turner, Clark, and Campbell.

So the Conservatives are going to go right, the Liberals will stick with their present government that is failing on multiple policy fronts and is begging to lose power yet the other parties won't let them, the masses will not vote for the NDP because they are the NDP (and they largely don't outside of B.C.), and the Bloc vote in Quebec will either stay where it's at or go up a little. Excellent near-term future. Hard to see how Ford and Legault lose when that's your political climate federally.

[StateBoiler]

The presidentialization of Canadian politics embodied by Poilievre is the product of right-wing embrace of American political customs.

Bullsh*t. Explain Justin Trudeau if you think this is a recent phenomenon. Do you think Trudeau is this great Parliamentarian that goes to the House of Commons and makes this passionate speech on an issue and then legislation comes raining in from his lieutenant that passes and then receives Royal Assent? Look at his record, the answer to that question is no.

The Liberals made last minute decisions on very weighty things (e.g. renovation of NORAD among others), dissolved Parliament immediately after so none of these decisions would get debated on the Commons floor, have an election, "we need a government that can respond to the challenges of today" blah blah blah all that sh*t, then once the election was over it took them forever to announce a Cabinet and have Parliament sit again, just in time to say "we must rush a few bills through Parliament before end of year!", and it was about 3 months until they had mandate letters for their ministers published. This was an election where almost literally nothing changed, why it took so long to get things going I don't think anyone has an idea other than the governing party could not be bothered.

All that time where Parliament is not sitting, there's still crises going on, there's still decisions being made, it's just the Parliament has no say in it. Who does? The presidentialized Prime Minister and his unelected inner circle. Meanwhile, Cabinet Ministers have become more irrelevant than ever on being allowed to have an independent policy-making power from PMO. Trudeau did not invent these things coming into being, he's just exacerbated them and made them worse than ever before. Meanwhile he's a weak touch on the problems facing the country, yet his opposition are shooting themselves in the foot (Conservatives) or are irrelevant (NDP, Bloc) and his caucus don't have the balls to drop him and find a leader among their number worth a sh*t. I do think there's more headwinds for Chrystia Freeland than there was previously if she comes off as Pierre Trudeau's Heir's Heir.

[StateBoiler]

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/ottawa-playbook

COURAGE AND CAUCUS — Both Covid-19 and the convoy have been force multipliers in Ottawa.

Conservative caucus meets today, a week after MPs showed some political aikido, using momentum from the Freedom Convoy to push out ERIN O’TOOLE. The palpable frustration inside and outside Parliament Hill for nearly two weeks has not only transformed the Tories, it has also catalyzed internal Liberal discord out for display.

Just look at Liberal JOËL LIGHTBOUND’s career progression into a maverick MP.

Lightbound stunned Ottawa with his decision to publicly break rank with his government’s Covid-19 positioning. Quite a birthday to remember for the Quebec MP.

— The cause: “Both the tone and the policies of my government changed drastically on the eve and during the last election campaign,” Lightbound told reporters Tuesday. "A decision was made to wedge, to divide and to stigmatize. I fear that this politicization of the pandemic risks undermining the public's trust in our public health institutions.”

He said he made his views known in caucus many times — and isn’t the only one who feels a similar way. “There are multiple colleagues that are uncomfortable with the type of politics that we have on this pandemic,” he said, without offering names.

— The consequence: Lightbound resigned as chair of the Quebec Liberal caucus. But despite his decision to go rogue, the Louis-Hébert MP hasn’t been thrown out of his party.

Liberal whip STEVEN MACKINNON said in a statement: “He has expressed clear confidence in the government, and remains a member of Liberal caucus.” It’s a precedent set under unprecedented circumstances.

Whether more Liberals follow Lightbound’s lead remains to be seen.

— The effect: Lightbound’s confession found him praise on the other side of the aisle. Conservative MP GARNETT GENUIS applauded his colleague’s courage, which he called contagious. “It's time for more MPs to speak out for unity, common sense, and hope,” Genius said.

Former N.B. Liberal Party leader KEVIN VICKERS saluted Lightbound for doing a fine job.

JANE PHILPOTT added her two cents, pulling notes from the day she and JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD were turfed from Liberal caucus. She tweeted: “Thoughts from a speech I wrote for caucus but was not able to deliver, April 2, 2019: It is healthy for democracy if MPs respectfully express different opinions. A party should be a safe place for MPs with dissenting views. MPs needn't agree with every decision of the government.”

Liberal MP NATE-ERSKINE SMITH disagreed with presumptions that Lightbound’s career has flatlined. “I don’t think his political career is over,” he tweeted. “We don’t need to agree on all issues, and some of what he’s articulated (the need to re-evaluate measures as we go on) has been reiterated by Dr. Tam.”

Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister MARC MILLER told reporters he has some problems with Lightbound’s decision to make his grievances public, suggesting political debate is muddying the primary objective, which is saving lives.

“It’s something we’ve been relentless in doing over the last two years and if Canadians think that’s politicizing the debate, I think they need to screw their heads on better," Miller said.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/the-joel-lightbound-crisis-in-the-liberal-party/

On the substance of the argument, I think [Liberal MP Joel Lightbound] is right that the [Trudeau] government would have a hard time defending each of its policy decisions in turn, which is one reason the government never comes anywhere close to bothering to try. (Another reason is that this government is simply incompetent at making any coherent argument. I mean, it’s breathtaking. This comes from the top.) There’s a line in Lightbound’s prepared remarks about wishing for evidence instead of talking points. That’s the sort of thing music collectors call a “deep cut.”

...But if you can’t defend your policy, it doesn’t much help if you ball up your fists and demand that everyone be a team player. If you can defend your policy, great: defend it. Lightbound’s broader argument—that this government has been leaning way too hard on “get with the program” as an argument for way too long—is not only reasonable, it’s obvious to anyone who can see. Including many Liberals of my acquaintance.

The truckers vs the lockdown is a perfect illustration of a central characteristic of the Trudeau government and, I might as well say it, of Justin Trudeau: the strong belief that there will be a perfect time to make a decision later, after the crisis is over. The early-2020 “build back better” rhetoric amounted to a hope that, after the icky virus went away, Canada could get back to building light rail, which sometimes seems to be the only thing that excites this gang. The nasty political sideswipe from the collapse of Kabul in the first week of the 2021 election campaign was similar: How dare there be a mess when he was trying to build the future? Everyone in Ottawa can list a dozen decisions that are way overdue, and the reason they’ve heard for the delay is some variation on, “Not yet. The time’s not right yet.”

I revert to my signature.

[StateBoiler]

There is a simple solution. Justin just keeps to stop whimpering and give the local police forces the help they need.

So in other words, become a leader worth a sh*t, grow a pair of balls, and stand up for something controversial?

What in his 6 years of governing tells you he's capable of that?

[StateBoiler]

Trudeau is now meeting with the leaders of the opposition parties. If I had to guess, it could very well be to invoke the Emergencies Act.

"Just watch me."

Congratulations to the man if so on demonstrating for the first time in his time in charge as Prime Minister of Canada he's not a castrated eunuch.

[StateBoiler]

I feel like sending in the military would be an excessive move. People blocking ports of entry and annoying the residents of Ottawa isn't comparable to terrorists bombing institutions and kidnapping diplomats/government officials (the FLQ hadn't yet killed Laporte when the War Measures Act was enacted). If you're going to take any action against the truckers have the police to arrest them or set up a perimeter allowing the border crossings to reopen and then send in the military to protect downtown Ottawa and border crossings as a show of force (like the US sending in the National Guard to the Capitol after the January 5th "legitimate political discourse" happened).

If this was described about another country:

• Losing control of the core of the capital city to an armed anti-government group led by retired military and police officials, with police either unable or unwilling to enforce the law
• The group setting up shop literally across the street from the HQ of the national police
• The same group sending a mob to harass the capital city's residents, its airport, and schools
• Important border crossings blockaded by supporters of the armed group, immediately crippling the manufacturing industry

Not a capital city, but kind of happened in Seattle 18 months ago. Minus the ex-military part. I know how the left would've reacted if military got deployed.

The analogy for this is late 19th/early 20th century labor actions that intended to grind society to a halt to achieve what they wanted that workers' rights activists mythologize over. And just like those instances, the state's about to come in.

Times like these it pays to have a good strong leader willing to take risks for the good of the country, doesn't it Canadians? Anyone in the Liberal Party caucus in Parliament capable of that?

[StateBoiler]

Politico Ottawa Playbook:

More meetings: Then [Trudeau] had a meeting with Windsor Mayor DREW DILKENS. Then an evening meeting with opposition leaders (rare!) CANDICE BERGEN, JAGMEET SINGH, YVES-FRANÇOIS BLANCHET and ELIZABETH MAY.

Dilkens told reporters the complicating wrinkle is the fact the Windsor movement is leaderless, which makes negotiations, well, tricky. Another tricky matter is the White House’s desire to see Ottawa exercise its federal powers to unclog the border blockades quickly.

As POLITICO’s ANDY BLATCHFORD reports, U.S. Homeland Security Secretary ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS and Transportation Secretary PETE BUTTIGIEG have each pressed their Canadian counterparts to pull on federal levers to end the border shutdown.

Seems activists have learned something from the BLM protests. If you have no leader, there's no focus, meaning governments can't negotiate leading to a compromise. They either give up and concede so the activists fade away, or have to go heavy-handed dispersal, which plays into the activists' long-term strategy.

https://www.tvo.org/article/all-these-truckers-and-no-one-at-the-wheel

OPINION: We’re in the midst of multiple crises. Where have all our leaders gone?

...

On Thursday, reports emerged that the Ontario government wasn’t sitting down with federal and municipal counterparts regarding the Ottawa situation, because the meetings “don’t accomplish anything.” Then show up, dammit, and pound the table and throw your shoes around the room and toss chairs through the window until something is accomplished. If the feds and Ottawa are too stunned to make a call, someone from Queen’s Park needs to take the wheel.

Or from Ottawa! Or from the federal government! Who cares?! Lock them in a room until someone discovers a spine and starts leading the effort. This is literally the least they could do — and the least they owe the people.

Wow. This man speaks to me.

[StateBoiler]

As the different jurisdictions play hot potato with responsibility the situation only continues to deteriorate. A new blockade popped up in Manitoba, a rolling blockade surrounded the Ottawa Airport and the blockades in Coutts and Windsor have only grown.

Maybe things are different in Canada, but how is a federal border being blocked a provincial responsibility to get it back open? Manitoba and Ontario do not border the United States, Canada does. The agents at the border crossings are not provincial employees, they're federal employees.

[StateBoiler]

As the different jurisdictions play hot potato with responsibility the situation only continues to deteriorate. A new blockade popped up in Manitoba, a rolling blockade surrounded the Ottawa Airport and the blockades in Coutts and Windsor have only grown.

Maybe things are different in Canada, but how is a federal border being blocked a provincial responsibility to get it back open? Manitoba and Ontario do not border the United States, Canada does. The agents at the border crossings are not provincial employees, they're federal employees.

The two governments (federal and provincial) are playing hot potato with it, trying not to piss off pro-convoy voters. Trudeau is hoping the premiers will deal with it and take the heat, while at the same time, the premiers are hoping Trudeau deals with it. The word on the street is that we are now at a point in time where - if you believe the rumours - Trudeau feels like he has to do something, and he may declare a state of emergency today.

To the bolded, so much hate. If he's not willing to take the heat on this to do what he thinks is right, he's welcome to resign and the Liberal Party can pick a better leader.

Unless Trudeau thinks Manitoba should become its own sovereign state, getting the Canadian international border in Manitoba back open is his government's responsibility. The protests in Ottawa are different because there's no international border aspect of it and Ottawa is Ontarian provincial authority unless we're talking federal buildings and avenues where Ontario has no jurisdiction. Blocking the bridge at Windsor crossing to Detroit, that's federal responsibility again, not Ontario.

[StateBoiler]

Doug Ford has announced that he will remove the vaccine passport system from Ontario "very soon".

History has taught us that appeasement makes the aggressor only more aggressive. Ford needs to set an example in order to create a credible deterrence to prevent future transgressions.

So are you guys planning on canceling Nord Stream 2 when the Russians invade Ukraine?

[StateBoiler]

Pierre Trudeau dropped one of the most based political one-liners in history with "Just watch me". Waiting to see if Justin updates this for a new generation.

"In the event that these illegal protests continue, I have resolved that my Cabinet will meet to discuss and determine whether to decide to increase our tone that these illegal protests must stop."

[StateBoiler]

Safe to say that Canada is a full out communist country now

Lol settle down there bud

Imagine if a conservative PM enacted the Emergency Act for the BLM protests.

That would have been fine? If the BLM protestors were occupying a city or doing something to threaten the economy. I wouldn't have had any issue with that.

For sure, like what they did in Seattle. BLM protests have never been particularly big or troublesome in Canada anyway. These occupier yahoos need to go though. I want my city back! 

..In Seattle the protests were centered on a city park in a portion of the city that was for the most part shut down already due to Covid - Capitol Hill is an entertainment district with bars/restaurants/clubs/etc. At that time it was close to a ghost town. Meanwhile, in that case the protesters did things like spoken word and music concerts.. not quite the same as what's happening in Ottawa. Though, it did start to get violent at night, which is when the city chose to step in and clear everything out.

Well have we had any documented cases of deaths and rapes at the Ottawa protests yet?

[StateBoiler]

Watching conservatives lose their mind over this is so funny, it’s basically identical to their freak out last year over Australia

It's not wrong to point out politicians are hypocrites. It's a bipartisan problem.

Really looking forward to the Boys in Short Pants episode on them talking about the invocation of this act. They're a get in the weeds podcast.

Politico's Ottawa Playbook this morning has this note:

— Cue more details: While the feds published news releases about its decision to invoke the Act, the actual legally binding orders had yet to be released as of Monday evening.

Took the government what, 3 months, to publish new mandates to their ministers? Imagine they'll get around to invoking the Emergencies Act come April.

— Showdown lowdown: Invoking the Emergencies Act is a measure of last resort. It gives the federal government enormous powers to quell the disturbances, shut down crowdfunding and freeze the bank accounts of anyone assessed to be aiding the demonstrators.

It also means an inquiry is on the horizon, one that will be mandated to interrogate all the decisions that led Trudeau’s government to invoke the emergency measures.

Would that be a Parliamentary inquiry? In other words, Trudeau's party would have a minority of the membership? If so, I see an election in the near future to avoid it, because that's how Trudeau's Liberals think.

The interesting thing reading through it is something that has also kind of happened in the U.S. : the business community are now supporting the center-left as the "party of order" and the workers are now supporting the center-right. Big business in Canada is more overwhelmingly concentrated into Ontario/Quebec than it is any one region in the U.S., so there's likewise a regional factor at play.

Star Editorial Board: Invoking the Emergencies Act is a Shocking Admission of Failure

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2022/02/14/invoking-the-emergencies-act-is-a-shocking-admission-of-failure.html

"The situation could and should already have been resolved by good intelligence, smart planning, and effective coordination among police forces."

Don Martin, CTV: Trudeau's Besieged Leadership Cried Out for an Emergencies Act

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/don-martin-s-blog/don-martin-trudeau-s-besieged-leadership-cried-out-for-an-emergencies-act-1.5781311

“So many emergency powers, so few police willing to use them. That’s the rub as
 Canada moves into uncharted territory.”

Susan Delacourt, Star: Justin Trudeau says Ottawa Protest has lasted far too long. Well whose fault is that?

https://www.thestar.com/politics/political-opinion/2022/02/14/justin-trudeau-says-ottawa-protest-has-lasted-far-too-long-well-whose-fault-is-that.html

“This is a new low for patriotism, if not Canadian democracy itself.”

[StateBoiler]

Every single country in the world does protect its multinationals by making deals. By refusing to make a deal, Wilson-Raybauld (one of the worst Attorney General ever) put her ego over her job. The media only got upset because they can't accept that Quebec has a successful business instead of Bay Street.

"We broke the law, but we did it for the right reasons! And that's why we fired the Attorney General."

Now what's your explanation for WE Charity and the Kielburgers?

[StateBoiler]

Those headlines are so misleading. It only got that far because complicit police forces refused to do their jobs.

Take it up with Star Media, CTV, and Politico.

[StateBoiler]

Every single country in the world does protect its multinationals by making deals. By refusing to make a deal, Wilson-Raybauld (one of the worst Attorney General ever) put her ego over her job. The media only got upset because they can't accept that Quebec has a successful business instead of Bay Street.

"We broke the law, but we did it for the right reasons!"

Now what's your explanation for WE Charity and the Kielburgers?

A former SNC-Lavalin official pretty much said it in news yesterday. If they didn't do what they did, contracts would go to American or European businesses doing the exact same things as SNC-Lavalin, with their governments turning a blind eye. Canada is a small country, it doesn't make the rules.

Then change the law.

[StateBoiler]

Honestly, it's a stretch to even consider SNC Lavalin a "scandal" to begin with.

I always go under the principle of "if the other party did this, would this party complain?" This is how you can distinguish partisan hacks that only care about power from people that have principles. If SNC-Lavelin happened under the Harper government, would the Liberals have pounced on it as a scandal and telling of the corruption of the ruling government in how it kowtows to big business? The answer to that question is yes. Your only other option to anyone that says otherwise is for you to acknowledge your naked hypocrisy that you're a partisan that will lie and spin truth to benefit the party you support so they can take and remain in power. It's why I'm no longer a Republican, and I'll never be a Democrat, Democrats will lie and stick a knife in your back smiling at you the whole time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNC-Lavalin_affair

[StateBoiler]

Honestly, it's a stretch to even consider SNC Lavalin a "scandal" to begin with.

I always go under the principle of "if the other party did this, would this party complain?" This is how you can distinguish partisan hacks that only care about power from people that have principles. If SNC-Lavelin happened under the Harper government, would the Liberals have pounced on it as a scandal and telling of the corruption of the ruling government in how it kowtows to big business? The answer to that question is yes. Your only other option to anyone that says otherwise is for you to acknowledge your naked hypocrisy that you're a partisan that will lie and spin truth to benefit the party you support so they can take and remain in power. It's why I'm no longer a Republican, and I'll never be a Democrat, Democrats will lie and stick a knife in your back smiling at you the whole time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNC-Lavalin_affair

The Bloc did actually not attack the Liberals over that (well, they did attack until Wilson-Raybould was fired) and attacked the Conservatives over "their attacks on Quebec economy" when they attacked Trudeau over it.

Well of course, they're Quebec First-ers and the federal political corruption benefitted Quebec. That was their principle: Quebec Always before Canadian Rule of Law. The Bloc are at least honest about who they are, unlike the Canadian Liberal and Conservative parties.

[StateBoiler]

The National Assembly has adopted a unanimous motion asking the federal government not to apply the Emergency Act on Quebec territory.

A majority of Premiers have made comments not really agreeing with the federal government move. Ontario and BC Premiers seem to support it.

Why the hell do they keep getting special treatment

Because the Montreal and Quebec City police forces are actually competent and managed to keep the situation under control.

Are there only 2 cities in all of the province of Quebec?

To further this take, what you, MaxQue, is saying, is that the police in every other province and territory in the entire country are not competent, from St. John's to Yellowknife, and therefore for that reason are subject to Emergencies Act? This is your logic, correct?

[StateBoiler]

The National Assembly has adopted a unanimous motion asking the federal government not to apply the Emergency Act on Quebec territory.

A majority of Premiers have made comments not really agreeing with the federal government move. Ontario and BC Premiers seem to support it.

Why the hell do they keep getting special treatment

Because the Montreal and Quebec City police forces are actually competent and managed to keep the situation under control.

Are there only 2 cities in all of the province of Quebec?

To further this take, what you, MaxQue, is saying, is that the police in every other province and territory in the entire country are not competent, from St. John's to Yellowknife, and therefore for that reason are subject to Emergencies Act? This is your logic, correct?

Those are the only 2 places in Quebec where trucker demonstrations happened. I, for sure, wouldn't call my local police competent.

It seems that, at the point, the only area that needs the Emergencies Act is Ottawa, but it not possible to declare in one province only without Ford playing ball (and he doesn't as he is focused on pandering to his base for winning re-election in June). The National Assembly of Quebec, of course, doesn't give a damn about St John's or Yellowknife and is only focused on itself.

So the statement on the competence of the police is not based on that's why it should not apply to Quebec, it's based on Quebec parochialism.

[StateBoiler]

Paul Wells article on Emergencies Act invocation. He shared "I was up all night reading 34-year-old Hansard, how about you?"

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/the-emergencies-act-whats-seriously-endangered/

[StateBoiler]

Has it actually dawned upon  Is any critic of the Canadian government's action here that  Freezing the bank accounts of The protesters Until they cease illegally trespassing and shutting down the roads as they have been for weeks  Is is an infinitely more humane and Is non violent response than the typical American version of sending in cops with truncheons and tear gas?

Has it actually dawned upon you that you've legitimized this course of action for dealing with any form of protest in the future for all future governments, including ones whose political motives disagree from yours?

[StateBoiler]

In Canadian Electoral politics news, the Sasketchwan NDP yet again proves to be in total disarray. They lost a by-election to hold their northern seat of Athabasca which has never been won by a conservative party before. Much of this is down to turnout as Indegenious turnout traditional crashes during by-elections which due to the very strane polarization of northern Canada dooms the NDP chances. The Sask Party won the seat with 51% of the vote on 24% turnout .Nevertheless, it Scott Moe has decided to very much gloat about his victory.

https://twitter.com/PremierScottMoe/status/1493810155015884803

That tweet is hardly gloating. He acknowledged the result and congratulated the new MLA from his party.

[StateBoiler]

How far much of the progressive left has fallen that they are willing to sell their civil liberties birthright for a pottage of protection against a few hundred truckers.

Sign of the times. Conservatives and progressives have both become evil groups of people willing to throw their principles in the trash as long as it hurts people they don't like. Ends justify the means.