Trump Jr./Russian lawyer meeting: Jr. knew info was part of Russian Gov effort

[EnglishPete]

Interesting story

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https://jackposo.wixsite.com/home/single-post/Soros-Don-Jr

[EnglishPete]

Interesting story

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https://jackposo.wixsite.com/home/single-post/Soros-Don-Jr

If you're going to post fake news at least post from a site that can afford a domain name.

What's fake? This is the statement from the Trump spokesman



So someone from a Dem oppo research company sets up a meeting with DJT Jr on the pretext of offering oppo research to the Trump campaign (something which is normal practice in political campaigns) whilst actually trying to gather oppo research against them. A complete non story.

[EnglishPete]

Pete just tape out man these citing of illegitimate RW sources trying to cover Donald's ass aren't interesting at all

LOL, you were so uninterested in my post that you felt you had to tell me you found it uninteresting (although I see you are interested in citing illegitimate LW sources like the Carlos Slim Blog).

Let me return the favour and say that I'm uninterested in whether or not you personally find my posts interesting.

[EnglishPete]

Ok, so you're citing Don Jr.'s own statement as verification of a fake news post from a website with no domain name.

Look, I can go online and find both a statement from Alex Jones that Sandy Hook was a false flag operation and a post on a blog making the same comment. None of that would actually be salient.

The connection with Fusion GPS is disputed. what is not disputed is that the meeting was set up following an offer of oppo research info on Clinton, the person in question turned out not to have the oppo research info and talked about something else, the meeting ended.

I'm really not sure what the fuss is about. You do know gathering oppo research is standard operating proceedure for campaigns.

[EnglishPete]

There are so many nothingburgers floating around DC these days that they can solve any world hunger problem that exists. 

Of course. The Dems have to keep cooking them up in order to keep their Russia conspiracy theory going.

[EnglishPete]

This could end-up becoming a big revelation for Mueller and his investigation.
Hopefully 1 or all 3 of them get the slammer !

Why stop at prison? Why not something more traditional?

[EnglishPete]

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/341372-gop-rep-i-would-have-met-with-russian-national-for-opposition-research

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Translation: I have no principles and of course in politics you want to win at any cost, even if that means colluding with the enemy.

Rep. Yoho, from the party of the self-proclaimed "patriots"

Its terrible. What kind of election campaign would seek out opposition research from a foreign citizen to attack a domestic opponent.

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http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

I trust you'll be condemning such 'principle free' behaviour from the Clinton campaign.

[EnglishPete]

Ew, that is disgusting, but sorry, "both sides do it" doesn't really cut it for me:

1. Russia was our biggest enemy for almost the entire latter half of the 20th century, and since the USSR dissolved they have been quietly working to undermine liberal democracy across the western world. They are still our enemy, and this is a big part of why Trump's possible connections were bad.

2. Russia attacked our presidential election and was involved in numerous attack vectors meant to tilt the election towards one candidate (I don't care if you don't believe that, because your opinion vs intelligence agencies and other information is worthless to me)

3. Ukraine is just "some country" compared to Russia. They are not really even a threat - except maybe if Russia absorbed them again.

But most of all:

4. Most of my post was directed at the GOP's incessant "patriotic" theme, where they constantly try and portray themselves as the "real Americans" who care about America above all else, all while calling Democrats literal spawns of Satan or unpatriotic commies at best, yet here they are, drinking from the Russian teet because they are desperate to win elections, having cast aside their morals and principles long, long ago. And they have the gall to waltz around, chests puffed high, acting like the only real patriots. Give me a break.


So don't give me that, EnglishPete. Anyone working with a foreign power to hurt their political opponent is pretty sleazy, but don't try and act like all sleaze comes in the same potency or flavor.

The Eighties called, they want their foreign policy back

We're at war with Eastasia, we've always been at war with Eastasia.

[EnglishPete]

He literally got an email saying something to the effect of: If you meet with me, I'll give you some damaging Clinton information that came from the Russian government, because they want your dad to win. And he went to the meeting.

Is that LITERALLY true? The Carlos Slim Blog publishes an article written by four people, none of whom has seen this alleged e-mail but which reports that three other people 'with knowledge' of the e-mail report that it said the info was coming from thee Kremlin. None of the Carlos Slim Blog bloggers who put together the article claim to have seen the alleged e-mail, its not even clarified if the people they claim are 'with knowledge' of the e-mail have seen it.

Perhaps it might easier to comment on this when we have something other than second or third hand gossip to go on.

[EnglishPete]

Can I please have a bowl of borscht to go with my nothingburger?

Honest question do you keep saying "nothingburger" to convince us or are you trying to convince yourself?

My answer to that question. I'm stating my honest opinions. This is a discussion board and, like most of the people in this thread, I enjoy discussing my opinions on these type of political questions.

[EnglishPete]

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/884767093673144321

LOL

[EnglishPete]

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https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884751036614946816

[EnglishPete]

Russian lawyer: Trump aides "so badly" wanted damaging info on Clinton.

Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer who is at the center of the controversial Trump Jr. meeting, told NBC's Today show that Trump aides wanted damaging information about Hillary Clinton "so badly."
"It's quite possible that maybe they were looking for such information, they wanted it so badly," Veselnitskaya said through a translator.

Here's that clip: http://snpy.tv/2uek4X6

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

That's your 'smoking gun'. Hold the front page, political campaign operatives 'badly wanted' oppo research info on a political opponent

[EnglishPete]

So politics and whether the lawyer was actually a representative of the Russian government aside, is it illegal to work with a foreign government on a campaign if no favors are exchanged? Is it illegal to receive information from a foreign government for a campaign?

If all the people pretending to be outraged over Don Jr's 'treason' over trying to get oppo research from a foreign national were sincere in their beliefs they'd be outraged at Hillary Clinton working with the Ukrainian government in the course of the campaign. Instead they pretend 'that's different because muh reasons'

[EnglishPete]

Schiff says that the House Intel committee has much more info on the Russia investigation that has not been made public: http://thehill.com/homenews/house/341417-top-intel-dem-warns-trump-jr-we-have-much-more-intel-than-what-public-knows

2020 candidate Schiff will have it leaked.  No worries.

I'm shocked. Democratic pol who, more than any other, has spent months ramping this Russia conspiracy theory is ramping the Russia conspiracy theory. Clearly an important development.

[EnglishPete]

Trump Jr. just confirmed he solicited a contribution from a foreign entity. He admitted it. Wtf is he doing and where is his lawyer?

Oppo research info isn't a 'contribution', if it was you'd be seeing outrage over the Clinton campaign working with the Ukrainians. Instead the reaction to that is tumbleweed.

[EnglishPete]

NYT - Russian Dirt on Clinton? ‘I Love It,’ Donald Trump Jr. Said

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

They have the*gasp* emails

This cannot be real. It has to have been a set up.

Of course its a set up. You wouldn't put 'this is part of the Russian government's support for Mr Trump' if it really was.

[EnglishPete]

NYT - Russian Dirt on Clinton? ‘I Love It,’ Donald Trump Jr. Said

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

They have the*gasp* emails

This cannot be real. It has to have been a set up.

Of course its a set up. You wouldn't put 'this is part of the Russian government's support for Mr Trump' if it really was.

Its also obvious that it was a set up because the meeting produced absolutely no useful info.

[EnglishPete]

So politics and whether the lawyer was actually a representative of the Russian government aside, is it illegal to work with a foreign government on a campaign if no favors are exchanged? Is it illegal to receive information from a foreign government for a campaign?

If all the people pretending to be outraged over Don Jr's 'treason' over trying to get oppo research from a foreign national were sincere in their beliefs they'd be outraged at Hillary Clinton working with the Ukrainian government in the course of the campaign. Instead they pretend 'that's different because muh reasons'

What would you say if it was Germany in 1936 vs Poland or Czechoslovakia?

That's really all in the eye of the beholder and irrelevant in a legal sense

Oh I dunno. How do people feel about all the Saudi ahem 'donations' to the Clinton Foundation?

[EnglishPete]

NYT - Russian Dirt on Clinton? ‘I Love It,’ Donald Trump Jr. Said

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

They have the*gasp* emails

This cannot be real. It has to have been a set up.

Of course its a set up. You wouldn't put 'this is part of the Russian government's support for Mr Trump' if it really was.

Its also obvious that it was a set up because the meeting produced absolutely no useful info.

If your last defense is "this must have been a setup!" then you're likely cornered already.

No the defense is that there's absolutely nothing in the e-mail chain that is remotely criminal. Whether the same can be said of the various DNC/Crowdstrike/Ukrainian cooking up of this bogus narrative is another matter altogether.

[EnglishPete]

So politics and whether the lawyer was actually a representative of the Russian government aside, is it illegal to work with a foreign government on a campaign if no favors are exchanged? Is it illegal to receive information from a foreign government for a campaign?

If all the people pretending to be outraged over Don Jr's 'treason' over trying to get oppo research from a foreign national were sincere in their beliefs they'd be outraged at Hillary Clinton working with the Ukrainian government in the course of the campaign. Instead they pretend 'that's different because muh reasons'

What would you say if it was Germany in 1936 vs Poland or Czechoslovakia?

That's really all in the eye of the beholder and irrelevant in a legal sense

Oh I dunno. How do people feel about all the Saudi ahem 'donations' to the Clinton Foundation?

You mean donations that weren't a personal slush fund?

Perish the thought!

[EnglishPete]

This has the feel of an impending statement that goes, “I, Michael Richard Pence, do solemnly swear I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States…”

You and I both know Trump isn't going to go down willingly.

In addition, there's a sizable percentage of the country who just doesn't care. Remember that poll saying that 43% of Americans trust Trump more than CNN/the media? That's going to come into play here.

That's a big difference between now and the days of Watergate (another set up, but that's another story). When Nixon was President the US had no right wing talk radio to speak of, no Murdoch press, no Washington Times, no Fox News, no Drudge, no Breitbart and of course no right wing social media. The liberal media in the US had an effective monopoly on shaping the narrative .

[EnglishPete]

This has the feel of an impending statement that goes, “I, Michael Richard Pence, do solemnly swear I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States…”

You and I both know Trump isn't going to go down willingly.

In addition, there's a sizable percentage of the country who just doesn't care. Remember that poll saying that 43% of Americans trust Trump more than CNN/the media? That's going to come into play here.

That's a big difference between now and the days of Watergate (another set up, but that's another story). When Nixon was President the US had no right wing talk radio to speak of, no Murdoch press, no Washington Times, no Fox News, no Drudge, no Breitbart and of course no right wing social media. The liberal media in the US had an effective monopoly on shaping the narrative .

Lol

Really? You don't think that that the liberal media's then monopoly on shaping the narrative made a big difference to the way Watergate turned out. If liberal media had had the same monopoly on shaping the public narrative in 2016 as it had had in 1964 Trump would have lost by as big a margin as Goldwater.

[EnglishPete]

This has the feel of an impending statement that goes, “I, Michael Richard Pence, do solemnly swear I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States…”

You and I both know Trump isn't going to go down willingly.

In addition, there's a sizable percentage of the country who just doesn't care. Remember that poll saying that 43% of Americans trust Trump more than CNN/the media? That's going to come into play here.

That's a big difference between now and the days of Watergate (another set up, but that's another story). When Nixon was President the US had no right wing talk radio to speak of, no Murdoch press, no Washington Times, no Fox News, no Drudge, no Breitbart and of course no right wing social media. The liberal media in the US had an effective monopoly on shaping the narrative .

Lol

Really? You don't think that that the liberal media's then monopoly on shaping the narrative made a big difference to the way Watergate turned out. If liberal media had had the same monopoly on shaping the public narrative in 2016 as it had had in 1964 Trump would have lost by as big a margin as Goldwater.

You know Bob Woodward was and is a Republican, right?

Doesn't seem to stop him being a shill for the liberal media does it.

[EnglishPete]

One major reason GOP operatives will not let Trump stay in power past 2019...

But what can they do about it? Unless Trump's base abandons him, impeachment will be a bloodbath where Trump fights them every step of the way, and he isn't stepping down on his own from the most powerful position in the country.

something tells me Trump does not want this to be a bitter junta like fight. The GOP leadership has ways to signal to the base this is over and start turning on trump and indicating this is no longer a viable situation.

also, new question - are we really sure the base wants to die on this hill? My suspicion, if Ryan starts validating the NYT, if McConnell, and a bunch of GOP high profile people start validating, the base starts wavering, and starts wondering who to listen to, the man in the White House or the other validators? Remember, the GOP united front si essential to telling the base what to think ...

Trump will go if there is a way for him to go peacefully without his family being indicted and tried for crimes. He won't care if Manafort and Flynn go to jail. He will care if it's Jared and Don Jr. I think ironically now would be the best time to issue a pardon and resign. The crimes are still "light' enough.

But it's really getting to the point where the implications and the crimes are really getting to the point where even Pence doesn't have the power to pardon without severe blowback. I don't think at this point with Don Jr's revelations that there is no longer a debate on whether collusion was attempted or not. Collusion most definitely was attempted.

Functionally, politically, it's the working definition of treason.

Did you read the e-mail chain. Nothing in that chain comes close to being 'treason' or even criminal. Don Jr just published it because it corroborates his statements on the matter.

If its 'treason' then presumably you think Hillary Clinton's campaign's collaberation with the Ukrainians was also treason.