True or false: social conservatism is a form of collectivism
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  True or false: social conservatism is a form of collectivism
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Question: Just what the title says.
#1
True
 
#2
False
 
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Total Voters: 28

Author Topic: True or false: social conservatism is a form of collectivism  (Read 3892 times)
Gustaf
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« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2009, 12:29:07 PM »

So, Einzige I guess you missed the part where rich people vote more Republican than poor people, huh?

But then again, reality was never your strong suit, was it?
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Mint
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« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2009, 01:32:21 PM »

Depends on what you mean of course. The problem with the OP is he views society from a very extreme position. To believe that some law and order based on simple human morals is necessary to provide for a stable society is not always collectivist IMHO. The problem with some posters here is they look at society in a very childlike and from a simplistic point of view. Their are many individuals in this country who would simply be outright monsters if they were allowed to live under the type of country the OP desires to see. I do think people can be individualistic in nature while living under a country with some matter of l&o. Seatbelt and helmet laws are of course asinine and should be left up to the individual. For example, starting Jun 30 you can be pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt but also here in FL you can ride your motorcycle w/out a helmet. Silly if you ask me.

Who is supposed to pay for the medical care of some dude with no money riding a motorbike without a helmet who gets based in the head, and is a quad for the rest of his life?  Maybe the libertarians could set up a charity fund or something for the mass of "moral hazards" with medical problems due to doing their macho thing legally without a helmet or any assets.  That should take care of the issue nicely.

Forget that, what about the idiot who decided he was too cool to buckle up then wound up flying out of his windshield at 90 mph into incoming traffic? I can understand arguments about the effectiveness of that sort of law but it seems like common sense to ban that. It's the same thing as having speed limits pretty much.
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jokerman
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« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2009, 12:02:36 AM »

False.  Burkean conservatism, and also most forms of paleoconservatism are most definitely not collectivist in essence.  I'm taking social conservatism as meaning a high regard for traditional culture, and a general skepticism of modernity.  Such a broad phrase can mean other things as well, naturally.
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Einzige
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« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2009, 03:25:12 PM »

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But I'm not talking about "law and order" issues here, am I? Aside from the Drug War - which is collectivistic insofar as it denies me my rights of self-ownership, and hypocritical in that it commands me not to consume certain substances, but permits me to remain free to ingest other mind altering substances, such as e.g. the Trinity Broadcasting Network - the rest of the social conservative repertoire is highly collectivistic as well: I ought to be free, as a cognizant individual, to marry whom I so desire, or to control the functions of my own body. Both of these issues stem from the first right of ownership, which is the foundational notion that only the individual man, and him alone, is sole master of his own body.

Naturally, you'll retort to the slippery slope, the first ally of the intellectually deficient. And no, I do not believe, for instance, that a man ought to be free to marry a horse: the horse is not cognizant. John Locke, from whom Monroe, Madison, etc. derived the intellectual underpinnings for our entire system of liberal (rights-based) democracy, held that it was the act of cognition which gave rights to the individual man; and I see no reason to change that dogma now, when it suits your communistic purposes. 

So, Einzige I guess you missed the part where rich people vote more Republican than poor people, huh?

Ideology != voting habits, you dolt. There are many poor Democrats - for instance my grandmother - who still proudly remember casting their votes for, e.g., George Wallace. There are other reasons to vote for a Party than their social stances.

In many ways, the populist Dixiecrats had more integrity than their erstwhile "economically libertarian" Republican counterparts - they were at least honest enough with themselves to openly admit they were collectivistic. And I guarantee you that, e.g., StatesRights would smile on his way to the voting booth to pull the lever for one of those Dixiecrats, his economic philosophy gone with the wind, as it were.
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