Alabama Megathread 2: Thou Shall Not Touch Teenage Girls

[UncleSam]

Jfc really

[UncleSam]

I mean even if it is forged (and I've not seen any conclusive evidence of this), there's no doubt that Moore harassed and stalked teenage girls repeatedly while both ADA and DA, and there's no denying that he was banned from his local mall over his conduct. While he may not have done anything technically illegal (though I believe the women who accuse him of attempted rape), that doesn't make him eligible for the US Senate.

I do wish Jones were a bit more moderate though - there would be a much better chance of an all-out embrace of his candidacy by Republicans like Collins, Murkowski, Gardner, and probably even McConnell after a point if he were pro-life and in the Heitkamp-Manchin wing of the party. Jones still is no better than even money imo, however, and even in the event he wins I see no real future for him as a senator from Alabama.

[UncleSam]

I mean if the choice were between a liberal who had done these things and a candidate who did not share their values I would not expect voters in, say, California to pick the Republican because it was 'the right thing to do' and then feign moral outrage and lambaste the citizens of that state for voting for their beliefs in a pragmatic fashion.

Now I personally hope this does not happen, but the attacks against the voters of Alabama by partisan hacks itt are the epitome of disingenuous. If Bob Menendez had been convicted no one here wanted him expelled immediately, and why should you have? Your party could've saved a seat by stalling for a few months, a seat critical to legislative successes in the coming year or so.

While I don't think corruption is on the same level as pedophilia, I also don't think a conviction for a crime is on the same level as being accused of a crime.

Basically stop calling people denigrating names for voting based on their beliefs and refusing to vote for someone who does not share those beliefs.

[UncleSam]

I mean if the choice were between a liberal who had done these things and a candidate who did not share their values I would not expect voters in, say, California to pick the Republican because it was 'the right thing to do' and then feign moral outrage and lambaste the citizens of that state for voting for their beliefs in a pragmatic fashion.

Now I personally hope this does not happen, but the attacks against the voters of Alabama by partisan hacks itt are the epitome of disingenuous. If Bob Menendez had been convicted no one here wanted him expelled immediately, and why should you have? Your party could've saved a seat by stalling for a few months, a seat critical to legislative successes in the coming year or so.

While I don't think corruption is on the same level as pedophilia, I also don't think a conviction for a crime is on the same level as being accused of a crime.

Basically stop calling people denigrating names for voting based on their beliefs and refusing to vote for someone who does not share those beliefs.

New Jersey Democrats would settle for a Christie appointee, who would lose in 2018 anyway. California Democrats would reluctantly vote for a Republican (if one makes it to a runoff, which is already unlikely, making it moot; the CA Democratic Party and DNC would even refuse to endorse their own candidate) Minnesota Democrats want Franken out. Do you get your news from Breitbart?

I never said Dems would support a pedophile. I'm saying Dems are pragmatic, and no way in hell would they settle for a Christie appointee who would repeal ObamaCare. I wouldn't expect them to, either, given the stakes of giving Republicans an extra senate seat and the damage that could cause.

But yes, just plug your ears and shout that anyone who dares say you shouldn't attack rural conservatives must be a dedicated Breitbart reader lol. Literally what is wrong with the left today: absolute dogmatism.

I personally am closer to Jones in beliefs and would vote for him anyway regardless of these scandals. However, I recognize that others are not and have the presence of mind not to mistake political pragmatism (like Kay Ivey's) for support for pedophilia. You apparently lack any such ability to apply basic critical thinking skills and separate someone's position on something like this from their personal views.

But yes, feel free to ignore the fact that Franken will not be expelled and Menendez would not have been expelled even if convicted until Murphy is governor. I feel that any of the above are reasonable moves from the perspective of those performing them, given the consequences legislatively should they not take them. You feel none of the above should happen. That's fine, but don't pretend that anyone with a thought towards consequences to the constituents in terms of laws against their will is evil.

[UncleSam]

I mean if the choice were between a liberal who had done these things and a candidate who did not share their values I would not expect voters in, say, California to pick the Republican because it was 'the right thing to do' and then feign moral outrage and lambaste the citizens of that state for voting for their beliefs in a pragmatic fashion.

Now I personally hope this does not happen, but the attacks against the voters of Alabama by partisan hacks itt are the epitome of disingenuous. If Bob Menendez had been convicted no one here wanted him expelled immediately, and why should you have? Your party could've saved a seat by stalling for a few months, a seat critical to legislative successes in the coming year or so.

While I don't think corruption is on the same level as pedophilia, I also don't think a conviction for a crime is on the same level as being accused of a crime.

Basically stop calling people denigrating names for voting based on their beliefs and refusing to vote for someone who does not share those beliefs.

The names people call Alabama Republicans on this forum are much nicer than the things said about liberals every day on Fox News.

Really what does Fox News call liberals?

You and others have called me a rapist a predator a right wing crazy and others.

Two of those three things are true.

I've never seen anything on Fox News (admittedly I literally only see it briefly while visiting my parents) about liberals anywhere near as insulting as this particular statement. As far as I'm aware they typically describe liberals as things like 'anti-American' or 'crazies'. Never seen people called sexual predators though outside of Bill Clinton, who almost certainly was.

Anyway if you don't like Greedo's posts just put him on ignore, the notion that you'll do anything other than make things worse by bashing and borderline verbally abusing a 16 (?) year old on the internet is lunacy.

[UncleSam]

I mean if the choice were between a liberal who had done these things and a candidate who did not share their values I would not expect voters in, say, California to pick the Republican because it was 'the right thing to do' and then feign moral outrage and lambaste the citizens of that state for voting for their beliefs in a pragmatic fashion.

Now I personally hope this does not happen, but the attacks against the voters of Alabama by partisan hacks itt are the epitome of disingenuous. If Bob Menendez had been convicted no one here wanted him expelled immediately, and why should you have? Your party could've saved a seat by stalling for a few months, a seat critical to legislative successes in the coming year or so.

While I don't think corruption is on the same level as pedophilia, I also don't think a conviction for a crime is on the same level as being accused of a crime.

Basically stop calling people denigrating names for voting based on their beliefs and refusing to vote for someone who does not share those beliefs.

"There's nothing wrong with voting for a pedophile!!!"

We have reached peak Republican.

"You're an elitist and worse than pedophiles if you bash people that vote for pedophiles!" - Multiple Atlas users have said unironically.

No, you're not. Youre just the reason that liberals are despised by a vast swath of the country.

Obama never bashed folks who disagreed with him, he rallied his supporters to talk to them and try to give them hope for the future.

I think Clinton took the party to an unfortunate place that has shifted it from one distasteful based on policy to one despised based on culture by rural America. Maybe that will be enough to win given high liberal turnout next November; for the sake of those on Medicaid I hope so. But I have my doubts that Democrats will ever win anywhere near the majorities they won during the Obama years while they insist on treating those with different beliefs like universal trailer trash. In many ways, your self-defeatism in places like West Virginia is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[UncleSam]

I appreciate Jones' honesty in this matter, though. At least he isn't pretending to be pro-life like Manchin, Donnelly, Heitkamp, etc. even if it hurts him politically in a state like AL.

This is true. This makes him way better in my eyes than, say, Romney as MA governor, who gave lip service to being a moderate then flipped all of his positions once he decided to run for president. If Jones wins and votes as a mainstream liberal, he cannot be accused of flip-flopping. The parallels to Scott Brown are pretty strong minus the scandals.

[UncleSam]

I mean when people say teenager they do tend to mean pre-adult teenagers aka ~13-17

That being said I don't think you'll find happiness posting on this board Greedo. It's fairly left-leaning and no offense but you clearly don't understand how adult attraction or sexuality works yet. It'll sound patronizing as all hell but you might want to give yourself a few years before trying to post about that sort of thing in a forum with primarily people who disagree with you, or else you'll end up pretty much just getting attacked and mocked and called all sorts of disgusting things.

As for those of you abusing a 16 year old on the internet I mean I hope you're proud of yourself lol

Back to the topic at hand, I do think I agree with PredictIt that Moore is a slight favorite. The GOP will go radio silent on this and hope that the tilt of the state saves a senate seat, then excommunicate Moore the first chance they get.

Jones' spending advantage could carry the day though - he has so much money that you have to believe he will succeed in making this a negative campaign and therefore a low-turnout one. I actually think this is a race where going positive or standing for something would hurt Jones, since that only really works if at least some minimum threshold of the population agrees with you. Idk what that threshold needs to be (maybe 40% or so?) but it sure as hell isn't low-30s. Drive turnout down, remind voters who and what Moore is every single day until December 12th, then hope to god Republicans stay home in disgust. That's the play book here I think.

[UncleSam]

Part of me thinks Jones pro-choice stance is the sole thing costing him this race, but then I think if it wasn't abortion it'd be another issue people would use as an excuse. Gay marriage, taxes, Hillary, Obama people would look any excuse not to vote for a Dem.

Abortion is a much more powerful wedge issue though, particularly among religious women. Many of my mom's friends, for example, are not particularly right-wing and actually like a lot of the Democratic party's policies, but view abortion as an ongoing genocide of babies on the level of the holocaust or worst so vote Republican every single time (or at least they say they do).

Sure it's possible that in the absence of this reason there would be a different reason manufactured, but I am inclined to believe when someone says they vote based on one issue and feel very passionately about that issue.

Like sure MOST eventual Moore voters would have voted for him no matter what, but all it takes is one in ten defecting to cause a solid win to turn into a razor thin loss for a polarizing candidate like him. I do think Jones' pro-choice stance will hurt him to the time of at least five points in the final outcome if not more, and will probably be the deciding factor if he does not win.

[UncleSam]

Catholics are the original Christians lol

Also just because someone subscribes to a religion doesn't mean they believe all the same things as everyone else of that same faith.