UK General Discussion: 2019. Blackadder goes Brexit.

[Zinneke]

TIN and CHUK would be very uncomfortable with the man who basically ran them out of Labour Party being PM.

My only response to that is "diddums" quite frankly.

If the likes of Leslie and Gapes enable a Johnson no deal, they will be vilified by history.

Its their call.

The idea that these two MPs would be remembered for being *the* reason No Deal happened is laughable. People will have forgotten about Change UK, and historians will highlight that Corbyn's leadership is what led to the desertion of MPs that eventually stopped him becoming PM.

[Zinneke]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/queen-approves-order-to-prorogue-parliament-for-one-month-until-october-14-a4223326.html

No deal is pretty much locked in at this point, even if there is a successful no confidence motion immediately upon parliament coming back into session a new election would take place after 10/31 and all plans of a caretaker government have fallen through

Parliament can vote to force the government to go for an extension I think. Its a constitutional deadlock if Johnson refuses, but I think there's still time.

But yeah no chance of a GE now which is a shame as I think its the only way out of this. May's crazy GE was not explicitly about Brexit, this one would be.

[Zinneke]

Buzz Feed says that Boris and his team are considering additional grossly un-democratic moves to force no deal, such as adding bank holidays, packing the House of Lords, and refusing to step down in case of no confidence

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-brexit-extreme-measures

Like I said above, can he not just do nothing even if Parliament passes a motion to demand an extension on the deadline? Just pretend he was incapacitated or something?

[Zinneke]

Was kicking out 21 members of your party on the same day you lost your working majority the... um... right strategy here?

Jokes aside it is actually because I don't think there will be more rebels.

[Zinneke]

So if I'm a soft Brexiteer Tory what party do I vote for next election?

That's where BJ's gamble may pay off. He can play it as Corbyn vs his hard Brexit and polls showed us in the last leadership election that Corbyn is what unites the Tory party, and probably electorate.

[Zinneke]

In some strange irony, perhaps the worst thing to happen to the eurosceptic movement in a generation was the UK voting to leave 3 years ago.

It was always going to take one member to be made an example of for the rest of the eurosceptic movements to be put off by the whole process.

The sad thing is Britain, despite its difficulties, its reluctance, its rebate, was a pretty invaluable member of the Union as it was a rule follower better than most (hence why it was so tough on accepting certain rules), a fierce defender of the Single Market of equals against FrancoGerman corporatism and as a foreign policy and military power could have led the EU's new competences. I question the added value of Italy, Greece or Hungary, but make no mistake, the UK leaving is a massive blow to the EU, and a massive failure of the EU.  

I imagine a lot of euroscpetics would have much rather seen France fall first because they would have tried to renegotiate the Treaties accordingly.

[Zinneke]

That was comprehensively damning for Boris Johnson and the Government.

Given the unanimous decision, how can there be such a massive chasm in judgement between the High Court in England and Supreme Court?

[Zinneke]

That was comprehensively damning for Boris Johnson and the Government.

Given the unanimous decision, how can there be such a massive chasm in judgement between the High Court in England and Supreme Court?

Quoting from today's verdict:

On 11th September, the High Court of England and Wales delivered judgment dismissing Mrs Miller’s claim on the ground that the issue was not justiciable in a court of law. That same day, the Inner House of the Court of Session in Scotland announced its decision  that  the  issue  was justiciable, that it was motivated by the improper purpose ofstymying Parliamentary scrutiny of the Government, and that it, and any prorogation which followed it, were unlawful and thus void and of no effect.

...

The first question is whether the lawfulness of the Prime Minister’s advice to Her Majesty is justiciable. This Court holds that it is. The courts have exercised a supervisory jurisdiction over the lawfulness of acts of the Government for centuries. As long ago as 1611, the court held that “the King [who was then the government] hath no prerogative but that which the law of the land allows him”. However, in considering prerogative powers, it is necessary to distinguish between two different questions. The first is whether a prerogative power exists and if so its extent. The second is whether the exercise of  that power, within its limits, is open to legal  challenge. This second question may depend upon what the power is all about: some powers are not amenable to judicial review while others are. However, there is no doubt that the courts have jurisdiction to decide upon the existence and limits of a prerogative power. All the parties to this case accept that. This Court has concluded that this case is about the limits of the power to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament.

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2019-0192-summary.pdf

Thanks. It still wouldn't sit easily with me if my Supreme Court had such a radically different view to my regional court of the courts power as a whole over parliamentary procedure. I know this a win for Remain but yet again I think it shows deep seated vulnerabilities in an outdated political system, that is crying out for a federal Constitution.

[Zinneke]

Boris' luck is really something. The news cycle is all about Labour embarrassing themselves at Conference and then suddenly this comes along and puts all the embarrassment onto him. I'd feel sorry for him if it wasn't hilarious. And he wasn't him.

This feeds into his narrative if anything. Him with the referenfum mandate Vs the Remain establishment.

[Zinneke]

You know, I'm beginning to get the impression this might not be a very good government

I was, but then I saw Johnson's speech at the UN and I quite like this government.

[Zinneke]

So why does the opposition not want an election? They are that confident they would lose?

Because, assuming they win an outright majority, which is unlikely, it would leave them very little time to avoid no deal or a sh**t deal. If they get elected just before the summit, they'll have a week to settle on a policy.

Johnson wanted election day to be the Monday after Brexit IIRC. Which is also a ballsy move but his whole leadership campaign is about October 31st and getting Brexit over with. And judging by the polls most people are fed up too, so the opposition, particularly Labour's, contorted idea of yet another extension is not appealing.

[Zinneke]

One of the things this mess has taught is the astonishing level of constitutional and legal ignorance on the part of political journalists and many actual politicians in this country. No, it is not permitted for the government of the day to simply ignore the law. Yes, there will be consequences if that happens. No, the government of the day does not have the right or even the capacity to override any such consequences.

A common talking point has been that the problem at present is largely constitutional in nature; that it reflects a broken constitutional system. While there are a few issues there, that argument is nonsense: this is not, not yet, a constitutional crisis. It is a political crisis, caused primarily by reckless, stupid and stupidly reckless behaviour from politicians and their advisors.

Next question is : can you blame the politicians and political journalists? Or do you really want a political class entirely populated by lawyers?
This also has to do with the fact that the constitutional fabric itself amounts to a bunch of post-its on key legislations and century year old rulings...still think the exit from the EU is a great opportunity for UK to modernise its constitution (including electoral system).