Europe-Middle East-Africa Refugee Crisis General Thread

[DavidB.]

Heat isolated for low energy use.

Has Jeb Bush become a refugee as well?

[DavidB.]

In the picturesque town of Oudenbosch, The Netherlands, ten people in a well-off neighborhood will be buying the entire land owned by a football club, which will cost 570,000 euros: the municipality had initially planned to build an asylum seeker center for 750 people on this land, but these people want to prevent this, fearing crime and a fall in the value of their houses.

In another town, Wezep, a "participation evening" - in which people can voice their opinion on controversial municipal plans - on the planned new asylum seeker center has been completely derailed. People became emotional or aggressive. PVV senatorial delegation leader Marjolein Faber attended the participation evening and wanted to speak, but was denied this opportunity since she doesn't live in Wezep and is not considered  a "party concerned". The participation evening was organized in a church. During the night before, the church got doubed with graffiti, saying "Nee AZC" ("no to the asylum seeker center") and a Star of David...

[DavidB.]

They could still be the same people - Jews afraid of the refugees or Neo-Nazis trying to frame the Jews?

Not sure why they use this symbol, but for several reasons it's clear that it definitely isn't Jews who did this, lol. Most likely either teenagers with a negative opinion of both migrants and Jews (they probably never saw either of those groups, considering this is Wezep...) or real neo-nazis.

[DavidB.]

Well, the Syrian refugees are Semites, so it's not the most idiotic symbol to use.

Yes, because a Star of David is generally associated with all Semites, rather than with only Jews. Good explanation...

That's also why Semites from some tribes might beat up Semites from another tribe for wearing a necklace with this particular symbol, which, of course, all Semitic tribes share.

[DavidB.]

Incidentally, the Star of David is a rather recent symbol, and is more a Zionist symbol than a Jewish one given its history.

I don't think it's up to you to decide what meaning the Star of David has for Jews, thank you very much.

[DavidB.]

Incidentally, the Star of David is a rather recent symbol, and is more a Zionist symbol than a Jewish one given its history.

I don't think it's up to you to decide what meaning the Star of David has for Jews, thank you very much.

I don't think that's what he was doing... but keep up the intentional self victimization. That's what your brand of Judaism is all about, is it not?

Strong words for a "Jew" who doesn't even seem to have a "brand of Judaism". Hope you did some tshuva before Yom Kippur, because boy, you really need it... This has nothing to do with victimization, I couldn't be any prouder of my heritage. Has everything to do with self-respect, something you lack.

But I don't think this is related to the migrant crisis, so let's get on topic again.

[DavidB.]

Ok. Let's get back on topic. This video will not contribute to the popularity of the "refugees" in Denmark...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ed6_1442172474

[DavidB.]

Send 'em all there then, lets see how it plays out.

I discussed this with a Swedish friend of mine and he was totally in favour of it. Sounds like a good deal.

[DavidB.]

After a weekend of extensive rioting and showdown in several German asylum centers Germany now starts debating dividing Muslims and Christians in separate camps.

Many of the fights is about religion, and the deputy chairman for the German police union Jörg Radek says it makes sense to divide people by their religion:

- "We must do everything to prevent further outbreaks of violence. And separate accommodation for religion, I think makes sense"

Dutch police officials immediately proposed to do this as well in the Netherlands, saying the situation has gone out of control. There has been much media attention for some instances last week when Christian asylum seekers in the Netherlands were threatened by Muslims, e.g. in Rotterdam. An absolutely incredible situation. If these people can't behave in asylum seeker centers then they will surely adapt just fine to Dutch society in which they will encounter non-Muslims every day...

SGP leader Kees van der Staaij said he wants to make sure that the law which says that people who misbehave in asylum seeker centers will be sent out (this already exists) will actually be enforced. A good first step, even if it's too little, too late.

[DavidB.]

Of course by that time, it might look like one big Malmo demographically and socially.

The Horror!!

Well, yes. A Swedish friend of mine from Malmö told me that quite some people he knew (illegally) possessed handguns in order not to get carjacked by thugs. Something tells me that these thugs don't have names like Andersson or Nilsson.

[DavidB.]

Last year 3,600 asylum seekers arrived in Finland. The estimate for this year is up to 30,000 asylum seekers.

The new estimate is 50,000 asylum seeker by the year's end. God knows how many next year.

The numbers coming to Finland per capita are now fully comparable to those coming to Germany and Sweden. Up to 70 percent of the asylum seekers are Iraqi. Very few are Syrians. It seems that the Syrians want to go to Germany and Sweden, while all the Iraqis want to come to Finland. They are well aware of the statistics which show that Finland has been much more lenient in granting asylum or another form of residence permit to Iraqis compared to the other Nordic countries. (For example, Finnish and Swedish officials disagree on how dangerous Baghdad is.) And while Sweden has a bilateral agreement with Iraq on returning rejected asylum seekers, Finland has no similar arrangements. (Thus we see that Finland's immigration policy has not really been less lax than that of  Sweden; there simply have been less asylum seekers wanting to come here, but now that has changed fast.) The government is now trying to tighten the policy with regard to Iraqis, but it'll take time and a lot of damage has already been done.

Last year Finland only had about 40,000 muslims living in the country, so the number of muslims is set to double in a single year.

Wow. I feel bad for you guys. I'd surely be mad as hell if I were a Finn who had voted for PS.

[DavidB.]

Malmö (or parts of it at least) is a hell hole, but it's a hell hole by Scandinavian standards (which mean that Rosengård (the worst area in Malmö) is less crime ridden than the average western city), so I personally think that the guys your friend knew was full of it.

Hmm, I think areas like Rosengård (and Rinkeby in Stockholm) are arguably worse than any Dutch "ghetto", and we have quite some problematic areas, especially in Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague. I think Rosengård is even quite bad by European standards.

The problem in Sweden is that these ghettos are situated in remote areas, a bit like the French banlieues (Skärholmen or Tenstå, for instance, are incredibly far away from Stockholm's city center). This adds geographical segregation to the cultural and economic segregation with mainstream society that many immigrants experience, and thus hampers integration. Dutch and Belgian "ghettos" are generally closer to the inner cities, although the Bijlmer in Amsterdam is a notable, infamous exception, far away from the city with huge commieblocks and dirty elevated subway stations (although they're trying to gentrify it).

That being said, yes, it could be that my friend (or his friends) said this just to sound cool / "gangster".

[DavidB.]

It's a good description of most Swedish ghettho's but Rosengård is a little different because it lies in Malmö, which are more compact than most Swedish cities. So Rosengård are more like Vollmose or Blågårds Plads in how it's part of the greater city than Rinkeby, which is like you describes.

You're of course right, Rosengård is actually an exception to this rule.

[DavidB.]

I can't see how any country could consider desertion as valid reason for granting asylum. If such a decision were made, how could any country punish its own deserters after that?

That entirely depends on the country and the context. There are countries in which there are many legitimate reasons to desert (not necessarily talking about Iraq now). Not every country is like Finland or the Netherlands, so deserting from one of our armies is morally different from deserting from an army in a country that mistreats its soldier or its people. For instance, I understand why people rather prefer to leave Eritrea and apply for asylum.

[DavidB.]

    Consider me old-fashioned, but if I were German I'd want to see the German electorate directly involved in deciding how they feel about this transformation of Germany, either through some type of national referendum, or a traditional election in which the parties announce clear policies about what Germany's stance should be.

Germany doesn't really do referendums, for obvious historical reasons. But yes, it is unfortunate that the current German population and even the next generations of Germans will become victims of a crime they themselves didn't commit. It is even more unfortunate (and ironic) that Gernany has bestowed this fundamental demographic change upon so many other European populations/countries, who don't have anything to say about this either.

[DavidB.]

Huge fight in a new asylum seeker facility in Overloon, the Netherlands, built in order to accommodate migrants who recently entered the country. Reportedly, many asylum seekers were intoxicated with alcohol. When people on Atlas are drunk they simply delete threads on elections in Southern Europe, but these asylum seekers had more damaging plans: they attacked each other with pipes, sticks and even knives. Windows and furniture got trashed. According to the Central Department for Asylum Seekers, the fight didn't stem from religious or cultural conflicts, but from the fact that "some people simply don't like each other". The asylum seekers involved hail from various countries.

[DavidB.]

Madness in the small Dutch village of Oranje, in the north of the country. Deputy Immigration Minister Klaas Dijkhoff (VVD) came all the way from The Hague to this tiny remote place in order to personally inform the villagers of the fact that 700 more asylum seekers will need to go to the asylum seeker center in the village. When Dijkhoff wanted to leave, villagers blocked the road and trashed his car, breaking its mirrors. The villagers are still blocking the road. They say they will make sure the asylum seekers can go to the center, but they will have to walk through the village, because the villagers won't accept the buses to enter.

The mayor of the municipality had declined to accept the fact that 700 more asylum seekers would go to this facility, a doubling of the current amount of asylum seekers in the facility. This has been the first time that Dijkhoff simply forced a municipality to take in asylum seekers: Dijkhoff stated that this was necessary because he couldn't accept that asylum seekers would end up on the streets. The CDA is angry about this in parliament (for electoral reasons), and so is the "governor" of the province of Drenthe, who is a Labour member.

I have to admit that this is rather surreal to me. It feels like I'm living in another country than these people.

[DavidB.]

Crosspost from my Dutch politics thread:

Last night, a sickening coordinated attack on an emergency accommodation facility for asylum seekers has been perpetrated in Woerden (in the province of Utrecht). The facility, housing 148 people (amongst whom 51 children), has been attacked by a group of twenty people (possibly FC Utrecht hooligans), who hurled heavy firework bombs (like nitrates) to the asylum seekers, leading to extreme panic and sometimes to traumatizing experiences considering the fact that many people had fled war zones.

Mayor Victor Molkenboer (PvdA) stated that the government doesn't seem to have a plan to coordinate the situation and that there isn't a real debate on the migrant crisis, only people voicing their opinions in a loud way. He said "this could have happened everywhere" and that he isn't surprised about it: "the debate on the refugee problem has been heading in the wrong direction", leading to a "horrifying atmosphere." Deputy immigration minister Klaas Dijkhoff (VVD) comdemned the attack, stating he was horrified: "This violence is unacceptable. The perpetrators need to be punished. Refugees and neighborhood residents need to be safe." Prime Minister Mark Rutte visited the asylum seekers today, to buck them up and to show solidarity.

[DavidB.]

I'm on the side of those concerned about the number of immigrants coming in, but that's funking disgusting.

Exactly.

[DavidB.]

400 Syrian and Iraqi asylum seekers will temporarily stay in an empty office building in the only remotely Jewish neighborhood in the Netherlands which is situated in Amstelveen, an Amsterdam suburb. Together with Amsterdam South, the adjacent area, it is the only place in the Netherlands where one will see Jews who dress "traditionally": pretty much all of Dutch Jewish life happens there. All of this doesn't seem like an extremely good idea to me, given the already problematic situation regarding security of the Jewish community, and that's what Ron Eisenmann, leader of the VVD in the district of Amsterdam South, thought as well, voicing his strong opinion of this. However, since the housing facility is located in the municipality of Amstelveen, Eisenmann's views mean nothing in terms of policy. Meanwhile, some left-wing people who don't live in this area themselves go bananas over the fact that some Jews are concerned about their security, making all kinds of insane comparisons. The VNL parliamentary group will ask the responsible minister questions about this unfortunate situation.

[trigger warning: rant starts here] To me, it seems like there are many politicians who live in some sort of a dream world while not having to live with the very ugly consequences. On the basis of Dutch history one could argue that the government has a special responsibility to protect the remnants of the once numerous Jewish community, but apparently this argument doesn't seem to be worth anything anymore in the eyes of many. People simply don't give a fyck if something happens, or they'll act like it was totally unexpected. [/end rant]

[DavidB.]

Well, Turkey obviously didn't deserve any of this, but I suppose that's the price we have to pay. A positive development indeed.

[DavidB.]

Exactly what I hoped for. I wish the honorable (ahem) people of Lviv and its surroundings good luck with this

[DavidB.]

Wow. That's some disgusting sh**t.

[DavidB.]

Cry me a river. Clearly racist first-worlders are the people we should sympathize with.

Because everyone who wants to uphold the idea of a nationstate and believes in limiting immigration is automatically racist

[DavidB.]

^ This is basically the debate between the old European left-winger and the new European left-winger.

The old European left-winger worked for the well-being of his people, attempted to uplift the working class, and introduced a welfare system based on solidarity in a homogeneous society.

The new European left-winger has given up on the white working class and instead belittles them and their lifestyle, either doesn't really care about maintaining the welfare state or simply believes things about the productivity of non-Western immigrants that are not true, and thinks solidarity based on traditional nation-state patterns is racist and should be eradicated, just as the nation-state itself should be eradicated.