Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[7,052,770]

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1442991723194425348

Hold the line, Joe!

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1442991723194425348
Hold the line, Joe!

What the knife and will she recognize that it’s being shown?

[LabourJersey]

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1442991723194425348
Hold the line, Joe!

What the knife and will she recognize that it’s being shown?

Who knows.

The most baffling thing is that Sinema and Manchin aren't even on the same page. They could each put out some detailed papers about what they would want a bill to look like and they don't--they have nothing but vague ideas of fiscal conservatism. It's getting to the point where this is hardly a negotiation

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1442991723194425348
Hold the line, Joe!

What the knife and will she recognize that it’s being shown?

Who knows.

The most baffling thing is that Sinema and Manchin aren't even on the same page. They could each put out some detailed papers about what they would want a bill to look like and they don't--they have nothing but vague ideas of fiscal conservatism. It's getting to the point where this is hardly a negotiation

Because they don’t have any ideas. They’re objection to the bill is that the donor class who bought them off want the bill to die as they stand to lose from it. So they put on a fact show of fiscal conservatism without giving ideas to change the bill to their liking because they want it to die

[KaiserDave]

Manchin's ramblings about entitlement culture really are gross. Bad (or sick!) guy!

[Matty]

This is what happens when a significant part of your party base now is well-to-do ex republicans

Pundits were warning about this from the day Biden was sworn in

The dem coalition is a bizarre coalition of rich suburban voters and hardcore urban progressives.

Those 2 groups have opposed each other for most of American history on policy

[Person Man]

This is what happens when a significant part of your party base now is well-to-do ex republicans

Pundits were warning about this from the day Biden was sworn in

The dem coalition is a bizarre coalition of rich suburban voters and hardcore urban progressives.

Those 2 groups have opposed each other for most of American history on policy

So have the various groups in the GOP. This isn’t important. At least not anytime soon.

[gerritcole]

This is what happens when a significant part of your party base now is well-to-do ex republicans

Pundits were warning about this from the day Biden was sworn in

The dem coalition is a bizarre coalition of rich suburban voters and hardcore urban progressives.

Those 2 groups have opposed each other for most of American history on policy

So have the various groups in the GOP. This isn’t important. At least not anytime soon.

GOP is the party of no, meaning that ppl don’t need to agree why they’re voting no, dems pass policy so you need to actually agree on specifics

[roxas11]

Manchin's ramblings about entitlement culture really are gross. Bad (or sick!) guy!

What annoys me is that he is talking about entitlement culture while trying to gut parts of the reconciliation bill that has nothing to do with entitlements like the parts of the bill that deals with climate change

It would one thing if he was just talking about being uncomfortable with the Medicare expansion. I disagree with him, but at least I could see where he's coming from on that issue, but in this case Manchin seems to also think that even people who simply want more action on climate change are also part of his ridiculous entitlement culture narrative that he has been pushing in the media

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Manchin and Sinema still says they're not in agreement with spending 3.5T in spending they're for a 1.5T dollar package..
The infrastructure has only passed the Senate not Reconciliation

[compucomp]

Terry McAuliffe says $3.5T reconciliation price tag is 'too high'

National politics seeped into Tuesday night’s Virginia governor debate, with the candidates weighing in on the reconciliation price tag, the Biden administration’s withdrawal from Afghanistan and a potential 2024 presidential run for former President Donald Trump.

Former Democratic Gov. Terry McAuliffe said he thought $3.5 trillion was “too high” for the Democrats‘ reconciliation bill.

“They got to stop their little chitty-chat up there, and it is time for them to pass it. Let’s get this infrastructure bill passed for America,” McAuliffe said, slamming lawmakers for this week’s chaotic back-and-forth on how to get President Joe Biden’s infrastructure package through Congress.

This is going to trigger some folks here. McAuliffe is basically the definition of an establishment Democrat. Either he believes what he is saying here, or he feels the need to say it to win a statewide election in Virginia. Neither is a good sign for the progressives.

[StateBoiler]

So let’s just remember where we are, because I think it’s helpful and certain posters are forgetting or being dishonest about it.

Biden rolled out an omnibus infrastructure package. Republicans being Republicans, immediately rallied to oppose it out reflex. The argument they came up with is ‘infrastructure is only road and bridges’, one of the all time dumbest takes I’ve seen in a sea of them. Meanwhile, Manchin and Sinema, being Manchin and Sinema, wanted to publicly be obstacles to President Biden. What they came up with they don’t think reconciliation should be used and wanted a bill through regular order. That their instance on keeping archaic procedures that have made regular order impossible is the whole reason that we need giant omnibus reconciliation packages was quietly sidestepped. What they did was went to the GOP to negotiate a package from the starting point of the GOP’s nonsensical stand that only roads count, hacking off the other 75-80% of the program. The rest of the caucus agreed to let them go forward on their compromise bill in exchange for beginning the reconciliation process, with both bills, comprising a single package, being slated for a house vote at the same time.

My main point here is that it’s not reconciliation and infrastructure, it’s a single package split out into two bills at the demand of two Senators, and calling the BIF ‘the infrastructure bill’ give an incorrect impression.
The other thing that is important to note is the sequence of events, because it’s of what comes next.

Immediately after the Sinema portion passed the Senate, Manchin and Sinema immediately balked at bringing up a reconciliation bill and began demanding that the smaller end of the package be passed before they would do anything. I’m not exaggerating when I say immediately here, literally the same day that the agreement was reached between them and the 48 Senate Dems, they began saying either that their bill wasn’t linked and insisting that it be decoupled from reconciliation. 9 (of 220) house reps then forced Pelosi to schedule a vote on the Sinema bill by threatening to kill reconciliation before it started. These same 9 (down to about four now as best I can tell) and a larger group of house Dems are refusing to approve the BIB until a reconciliation package is brought forward.

Pelosi pushed the vote back to Thursday and that’s where they are at. This isn’t about the merits of either bill, we are watching a power play from 11 congressmen attempting to drive the entire agenda.

This post ignores a simple reality; the reconciliation bill in its current form cannot pass Congress. The votes aren't there. This would still be true even if it were combined with the infrastructure bill. It's actually a work of genius to split the two bills, so that there is a chance that something got done even in the likely event that the reconciliation negotiations collapse.

Let's put it this way, if Manchin switches parties tomorrow, then the reconciliation vanishes, and what will Democrats do? They'll vote for BIF or they'll get nothing. Progressives can acknowledge this reality or they'll get nothing in the end, just like the Freedom Caucus got nothing in their quest to repeal Obamacare.

Silence, Republican!

Haha.

The ultimate measure of competence when it comes to politics is knowing how to count. There's a lot of people in this thread that don't know how to count.

[Bootes Void]

This is what happens when a significant part of your party base now is well-to-do ex republicans

Pundits were warning about this from the day Biden was sworn in

The dem coalition is a bizarre coalition of rich suburban voters and hardcore urban progressives.

Those 2 groups have opposed each other for most of American history on policy

How does this effect how the politicans vote on the bill.

[Torie]

Here is a thought experiment. Pretend that Manchin is a Republican, say a Portman type. You are a progressive Dem. You have two choices. The first is to refuse to vote for the infrastructure bill because there is no prospect of getting very much of what you want in a reconciliation bill, if anything, and thereby end up with nothing passing, or voting for and enacting into law the infrastructure bill, the idea being that something is better than nothing. What are you going to prefer?  There is zero chance you can bully or persuade Manchin to change his mind, zero. He has said down the road the contents of a reconciliation bill can be discussed over time, without any preconditions or time gun to his head, and that it would be wise to see what happens to the economy and inflation and so forth for a few months in any event, to wit, yes, that reset button.

There seems to be all this sound and fury going nowhere because Manchin is who he is, from a state that is what it is, that is generated simply because it is Manchin (D), rather than Manchin (R). You just don't have the votes, or the leverage to get them. All you have is the power to tank the infrastructure bill, I guess the idea being to punish Manchin for being Manchin by denying him the infrastructure bill that he wants. I don't think his behavior is subject to change via progressive spankings.  Why should it be, when it did not change as a result of a Biden spanking, with whom he is on far better terms personally than with the progressive people?

Is spanking Manchin, because he is a (D), more important than getting the infrastruture bill passed, that is the question.

And then there is Sinema who does not want any tax increases it seems. Maybe she will go for "creative accounting." But there is no need to go there since I suspect what is in her mind is essentially moot. The Manchin man is the thing.

Addendum:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/29/us/politics/republicans-infrastructure-bill.html

If I were Portman, I would be trying to cut a deal wherein Manchin pledges to defer reconciliation until say next year in exchange for the Pubs delivering enough votes for infrastructure to offset the progressive defections.

[Sir Mohamed]

$2 to 2.5T is acceptable.

Also why is Pelosi trying to pass the bipartisan bill?? Once that happens the reconciliation bill will possibly be toast.

Nah, 3.5 trillion was already a compromise. Doesn't have to be 6 as proposed by Sanders initially, but just making it smaller and smaller isn't good policy. We already did that with 2009 stimulus package, which - everyone today agrees - was too small and prolonged the recession. Situation today is for sure somewhat different, but it's out of question we need big investments in "human infrastructure" and green energy.

[wbrocks67]

The $3.5T price tag isnt even that bad when you remember what should be said every single time it's brought up - that it's OVER 10 YEARS

[compucomp]

Addendum:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/29/us/politics/republicans-infrastructure-bill.html

If I were Portman, I would be trying to cut a deal wherein Manchin pledges to defer reconciliation until say next year in exchange for the Pubs delivering enough votes for infrastructure to offset the progressive defections.

This is very unlikely to happen, but it would be like winning the lottery. The BIF passes, the reconciliation vanishes, both Trump and the progressives get owned.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

They have 1 full day to get Govt from Shutting down and users are worried about a Reconciliation package that's not even a Stimulus check, its just Medicare Expansion and it doesn't even take effect til 2028 anyways

People on Disability and Seniors already have Dual coverage in Medical and Medicare and get Dental paid for


If you need additional coverage you can always pay a premium that pays for everything and it cost 75 a month


False teeth is mostly out of pocket unless it's a front tooth and molars are the ones that break not front teeth, all my cavities are on molar's

Insurance mostly cover front teeth not back teeth unless PPO and implants are better than Dentures everyone don't miss a whole set of teeth

[KaiserDave]

Addendum:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/29/us/politics/republicans-infrastructure-bill.html

If I were Portman, I would be trying to cut a deal wherein Manchin pledges to defer reconciliation until say next year in exchange for the Pubs delivering enough votes for infrastructure to offset the progressive defections.

This is very unlikely to happen, but it would be like winning the lottery. The BIF passes, the reconciliation vanishes, both Trump and the progressives get owned.

Get the blue avatar, I know that's played out but the sports-like glee and equivocation is terrible.

[Comrade Funk]

Obama got slaughtered with his watered down health care bill. Imagine how bad the Dems will do if all they have to show is a watered down infrastructure bill after all the effort which came with getting them elected.

Some "moderates" in this thread are content with achieving as little as possible while in power. What do they even stand for? Is it just a game between blue vs. red for them? Do they fetishize third way politics so much they find doing nothing to be exciting?

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

From yesterday.

King Manchin
https://twitter.com/JulieNBCNews/status/1442933974087528450

And Shummer didn't even get notice from Pelosi.
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1442920481011605508

Dems are in disarray!

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/MollyJongFast/status/1443215941270179842

[KaiserDave]

That video helped me understand the situation a lot more

[7,052,770]

https://twitter.com/MollyJongFast/status/1443215941270179842

Terrible. The optimist in me says she probably knows she's backed herself into a corner and wants a way out while still saving face, and it's up to Biden etc. to give that to her.

The pessimist in me says she's just torpedoing it for spite.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/JacquiHeinrich/status/1443261388265246733