Public Discussion on the Supreme Court Cases (Avoid Cluttering Case Threads)

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I would understand by what Authority, (I mean lawfull) I am brought hither. There are many unlawfull Authorities in the world, as Thieves and Plunderers in the high-wayes. I would know by what Authority I was taken from thence, and carried from place to place, I know not where? When I have understood the lawfulness of the Authority, I will make my Answer: In the mean time, re∣member that I represent your Government, your lawfull Government; and weigh well with your selves, what sins you heap on your own heads, and the anger and judgments of God which you will bring upon this land, I say seriously, weigh it before you further do proceed from one sin to a greater. Therefore declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I sit here, and I will not refuse to Answer you. In the mean time I will not betray my trust. I have a trust committed to me by God, by an ancient and lawfull succession, I will not betray that by answering to a new and an unlawfull Authority; wherefore satisfie me in this, and you shall hear further from me.

If you had but pleased to observe what the Court did suggest unto you, when you first came hither, you had under∣stood by what Authority you were brought hither; which Au∣thority doth require of you, in the Name of the People of Atlasia, by whom you are elected Attorney General, that you make answer to them.

Atlasia was never an Elective Commonwealthe, but collectivist, for almost, these two decades. Therefore declare unto me, by what Authority I am brought hither. I labour more for the liberty of my people then any of you, who pretend to be my Judges; and therefore I say, declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I am placed here, and I will answer you; otherwise, I shall make no answer at all.

You are brought hither by the authority of thou Supreme Court of Atlasia, which is authorized under thou constitution that thou have sworn to uphold.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I would understand by what Authority, (I mean lawfull) I am brought hither. There are many unlawfull Authorities in the world, as Thieves and Plunderers in the high-wayes. I would know by what Authority I was taken from thence, and carried from place to place, I know not where? When I have understood the lawfulness of the Authority, I will make my Answer: In the mean time, re∣member that I represent your Government, your lawfull Government; and weigh well with your selves, what sins you heap on your own heads, and the anger and judgments of God which you will bring upon this land, I say seriously, weigh it before you further do proceed from one sin to a greater. Therefore declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I sit here, and I will not refuse to Answer you. In the mean time I will not betray my trust. I have a trust committed to me by God, by an ancient and lawfull succession, I will not betray that by answering to a new and an unlawfull Authority; wherefore satisfie me in this, and you shall hear further from me.

If you had but pleased to observe what the Court did suggest unto you, when you first came hither, you had under∣stood by what Authority you were brought hither; which Au∣thority doth require of you, in the Name of the People of Atlasia, by whom you are elected Attorney General, that you make answer to them.

Atlasia was never an Elective Commonwealthe, but collectivist, for almost, these two decades. Therefore declare unto me, by what Authority I am brought hither. I labour more for the liberty of my people then any of you, who pretend to be my Judges; and therefore I say, declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I am placed here, and I will answer you; otherwise, I shall make no answer at all.

You are Thou art brought hither by the aAuthority of thou y^e Supreme Court of Atlasia, which is authorized under thou y^e constitution that thou have hast sworn to uphold.

Thankfully, illiterates cannot be lawyers. Even in fantasyland!

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I would understand by what Authority, (I mean lawfull) I am brought hither. There are many unlawfull Authorities in the world, as Thieves and Plunderers in the high-wayes. I would know by what Authority I was taken from thence, and carried from place to place, I know not where? When I have understood the lawfulness of the Authority, I will make my Answer: In the mean time, re∣member that I represent your Government, your lawfull Government; and weigh well with your selves, what sins you heap on your own heads, and the anger and judgments of God which you will bring upon this land, I say seriously, weigh it before you further do proceed from one sin to a greater. Therefore declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I sit here, and I will not refuse to Answer you. In the mean time I will not betray my trust. I have a trust committed to me by God, by an ancient and lawfull succession, I will not betray that by answering to a new and an unlawfull Authority; wherefore satisfie me in this, and you shall hear further from me.

If you had but pleased to observe what the Court did suggest unto you, when you first came hither, you had under∣stood by what Authority you were brought hither; which Au∣thority doth require of you, in the Name of the People of Atlasia, by whom you are elected Attorney General, that you make answer to them.

Atlasia was never an Elective Commonwealthe, but collectivist, for almost, these two decades. Therefore declare unto me, by what Authority I am brought hither. I labour more for the liberty of my people then any of you, who pretend to be my Judges; and therefore I say, declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I am placed here, and I will answer you; otherwise, I shall make no answer at all.

You are Thou art brought hither by the aAuthority of thou y^e Supreme Court of Atlasia, which is authorized under thou y^e constitution that thou have hast sworn to uphold.

Thankfully, illiterates cannot be lawyers. Even in fantasyland!

Ye Supreme Court of Atlasia hast recongized me before, and even ruled in my favor. Thou shalt be impeached before long regardless.

[Continential]

I would understand by what Authority, (I mean lawfull) I am brought hither. There are many unlawfull Authorities in the world, as Thieves and Plunderers in the high-wayes. I would know by what Authority I was taken from thence, and carried from place to place, I know not where? When I have understood the lawfulness of the Authority, I will make my Answer: In the mean time, re∣member that I represent your Government, your lawfull Government; and weigh well with your selves, what sins you heap on your own heads, and the anger and judgments of God which you will bring upon this land, I say seriously, weigh it before you further do proceed from one sin to a greater. Therefore declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I sit here, and I will not refuse to Answer you. In the mean time I will not betray my trust. I have a trust committed to me by God, by an ancient and lawfull succession, I will not betray that by answering to a new and an unlawfull Authority; wherefore satisfie me in this, and you shall hear further from me.

If you had but pleased to observe what the Court did suggest unto you, when you first came hither, you had under∣stood by what Authority you were brought hither; which Au∣thority doth require of you, in the Name of the People of Atlasia, by whom you are elected Attorney General, that you make answer to them.

Atlasia was never an Elective Commonwealthe, but collectivist, for almost, these two decades. Therefore declare unto me, by what Authority I am brought hither. I labour more for the liberty of my people then any of you, who pretend to be my Judges; and therefore I say, declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I am placed here, and I will answer you; otherwise, I shall make no answer at all.

You are Thou art brought hither by the aAuthority of thou y^e Supreme Court of Atlasia, which is authorized under thou y^e constitution that thou have hast sworn to uphold.

Thankfully, illiterates cannot be lawyers. Even in fantasyland!

Ye Supreme Court of Atlasia hast recongized me before, and even ruled in my favor. Thou shalt be impeached before long regardless.

"recongized"

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I would understand by what Authority, (I mean lawfull) I am brought hither. There are many unlawfull Authorities in the world, as Thieves and Plunderers in the high-wayes. I would know by what Authority I was taken from thence, and carried from place to place, I know not where? When I have understood the lawfulness of the Authority, I will make my Answer: In the mean time, re∣member that I represent your Government, your lawfull Government; and weigh well with your selves, what sins you heap on your own heads, and the anger and judgments of God which you will bring upon this land, I say seriously, weigh it before you further do proceed from one sin to a greater. Therefore declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I sit here, and I will not refuse to Answer you. In the mean time I will not betray my trust. I have a trust committed to me by God, by an ancient and lawfull succession, I will not betray that by answering to a new and an unlawfull Authority; wherefore satisfie me in this, and you shall hear further from me.

If you had but pleased to observe what the Court did suggest unto you, when you first came hither, you had under∣stood by what Authority you were brought hither; which Au∣thority doth require of you, in the Name of the People of Atlasia, by whom you are elected Attorney General, that you make answer to them.

Atlasia was never an Elective Commonwealthe, but collectivist, for almost, these two decades. Therefore declare unto me, by what Authority I am brought hither. I labour more for the liberty of my people then any of you, who pretend to be my Judges; and therefore I say, declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I am placed here, and I will answer you; otherwise, I shall make no answer at all.

You are Thou art brought hither by the aAuthority of thou y^e Supreme Court of Atlasia, which is authorized under thou y^e constitution that thou have hast sworn to uphold.

Thankfully, illiterates cannot be lawyers. Even in fantasyland!

Ye Supreme Court of Atlasia hast recongized me before, and even ruled in my favor. Thou shalt be impeached before long regardless.

As I recall, y^e court recognized thee for the purpose of declaring thee mentally unfit to serve on a jury! I trust thy weak mental faculties are again represented in thy forecast of y^e criminal travesty of y^e so-called "trial."

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I would understand by what Authority, (I mean lawfull) I am brought hither. There are many unlawfull Authorities in the world, as Thieves and Plunderers in the high-wayes. I would know by what Authority I was taken from thence, and carried from place to place, I know not where? When I have understood the lawfulness of the Authority, I will make my Answer: In the mean time, re∣member that I represent your Government, your lawfull Government; and weigh well with your selves, what sins you heap on your own heads, and the anger and judgments of God which you will bring upon this land, I say seriously, weigh it before you further do proceed from one sin to a greater. Therefore declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I sit here, and I will not refuse to Answer you. In the mean time I will not betray my trust. I have a trust committed to me by God, by an ancient and lawfull succession, I will not betray that by answering to a new and an unlawfull Authority; wherefore satisfie me in this, and you shall hear further from me.

If you had but pleased to observe what the Court did suggest unto you, when you first came hither, you had under∣stood by what Authority you were brought hither; which Au∣thority doth require of you, in the Name of the People of Atlasia, by whom you are elected Attorney General, that you make answer to them.

Atlasia was never an Elective Commonwealthe, but collectivist, for almost, these two decades. Therefore declare unto me, by what Authority I am brought hither. I labour more for the liberty of my people then any of you, who pretend to be my Judges; and therefore I say, declare unto me, by what lawfull Authority I am placed here, and I will answer you; otherwise, I shall make no answer at all.

You are Thou art brought hither by the aAuthority of thou y^e Supreme Court of Atlasia, which is authorized under thou y^e constitution that thou have hast sworn to uphold.

Thankfully, illiterates cannot be lawyers. Even in fantasyland!

Ye Supreme Court of Atlasia hast recongized me before, and even ruled in my favor. Thou shalt be impeached before long regardless.

As I recall, y^e court recognized thee for the purpose of declaring thee mentally unfit to serve on a jury! I trust thy weak mental faculties are again represented in thy forecast of y^e criminal travesty of y^e so-called "trial."

Since that time, y^e Supreme Court hast ruled in my favor on at least two separate occasions (legality of my actions during my short-lived PUP chairmanship and the Lincoln Abortion Ban)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=492849.0

This is a case study in the break down of communication in this game. The funny thing is with all of the supposed gained abilities that discord was suppose to bring, this was one of them, yet this dynamic has actually gotten worse.

[Sestak]

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=492849.0

This is a case study in the break down of communication in this game. The funny thing is with all of the supposed gained abilities that discord was suppose to bring, this was one of them, yet this dynamic has actually gotten worse.

I’ve been off discord chats for a week and a half other than PMs; thought it had been brought up with the Secretary by someone else. My bad on that front. I do need the court case though.

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

Supreme Court of Atlasia

Nyman, DC

Dwarven Dragon vs the South

Opinion of the Court.

(Chief Justice Windjammer delivered the opinion of the Court)
After consideration of the submitted briefs and the facts of the case, the Court has come to a unanimous decision.
It’s the opinion of the Supreme Court "Promoting Holy Courts Act" relies explicitly on religious references (for example, « pursuant to leviticus ») and can not be implemented without it. Thus, it is a clear violation of the following clause of the Atlasian Constitution :

The Senate shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor obstructing the freedom of worship.

By passing legislations relying on the Bible’s scriptures, « Promoting the Holy Courts Act » de facto establishes Christianity as the religion of the South. For that reason, « Promoting the Holy Courts Act » shall be struck down in its entirety.
The Supreme Court would like to thank Wulfric and Blackraisin for their full cooperation.

LOL, what a joke. Would make more sense to argue that it established Judaism based solely on the scripture referenced in that bill.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Supreme Court of Atlasia

Nyman, DC

Dwarven Dragon vs the South

Opinion of the Court.

(Chief Justice Windjammer delivered the opinion of the Court)
After consideration of the submitted briefs and the facts of the case, the Court has come to a unanimous decision.
It’s the opinion of the Supreme Court "Promoting Holy Courts Act" relies explicitly on religious references (for example, « pursuant to leviticus ») and can not be implemented without it. Thus, it is a clear violation of the following clause of the Atlasian Constitution :

The Senate shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor obstructing the freedom of worship.

By passing legislations relying on the Bible’s scriptures, « Promoting the Holy Courts Act » de facto establishes Christianity as the religion of the South. For that reason, « Promoting the Holy Courts Act » shall be struck down in its entirety.
The Supreme Court would like to thank Wulfric and Blackraisin for their full cooperation.

LOL, what a joke. Would make more sense to argue that it established Judaism based solely on the scripture referenced in that bill.

Re-pass it with all the scriptural references moved to a non-binding findings section at the beginning and there you go. I would not challenge again in that case. As I outlined in the case and as even your region's appointee appears to agree, the way you did it in the overturned legislation at best created confusion as to whether one should refer to scripture or to other existing law (which would create establishment of religion if scripture was chosen at any point), and at worst (more likely) mandated the use of scripture to radically change the rule of law.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

BUMP.

Strongly disappointed in the Chief Justice's decision to not grant certorari in the twitter case. This basically means that the GM team can have "characters" do whatever they want to damage players, even actions contradicting in-game law, and face zero repercussions. I urge the Cao administration to explore the possibility of rescinding the twitter bans via executive order or explicit legislation.

This is the latest in a line of several actions from Windjammer with which I have disagreed, and I would emphasize that if we had retention elections in Atlasia, I would not vote to retain him.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Joke court.

Also, Elon Musk is not a "fictional character" LOL. But since the Court has chosen to essentially ignore a GM story, Cao is within his right to rescind the bans at will and in accordance with existing law.

[NewYorkExpress]

BUMP.

Strongly disappointed in the Chief Justice's decision to not grant certorari in the twitter case. This basically means that the GM team can have "characters" do whatever they want to damage players, even actions contradicting in-game law, and face zero repercussions. I urge the Cao administration to explore the possibility of rescinding the twitter bans via executive order or explicit legislation.

This is the latest in a line of several actions from Windjammer with which I have disagreed, and I would emphasize that if we had retention elections in Atlasia, I would not vote to retain him.

My complaint is of the use of the term "fictional character" rather than "NPC" in the decision. Musk is very much a real person, he's just an NPC for Atlasia purposes.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

Yeah this is highly disappointing and defeats the purpose of trying to have any legal issues brought up in GM stories.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

Honestly, if I didn’t know (not think) that it would cause chaos and strife, I’d say that if the court does not want to do it’s job they could resign. But I will leave that as a purely hypothetical line of reasoning.

[Sirius_]

I agree, this is a poor decision. Although the case would have likely been lopsided and uninteresting, this doesn't set a good precedent. I also must take objection to the description of this relating to actions of a "fictional character"; such statements undermine the canon status of the game engine and also don't make sense considering that all of this is fictional.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Don't break kayfabe!

[windjammer]

I agree, this is a poor decision. Although the case would have likely been lopsided and uninteresting, this doesn't set a good precedent. I also must take objection to the description of this relating to actions of a "fictional character"; such statements undermine the canon status of the game engine and also don't make sense considering that all of this is fictional.

I guess I will explain more in detail my decision.


I do not believe the Supreme Court can simulate fantasy court case like that. The main reason being  basically due process. How could this fictional character "Elon Musk" be represented realistically? He's not even a real person in this game.

I'm not even against this kind of "fun stories", it's just to me the Supreme Court isn't going to host court cases where the accused person doesn't exist.

It's main point against it.

[Sirius_]

I agree, this is a poor decision. Although the case would have likely been lopsided and uninteresting, this doesn't set a good precedent. I also must take objection to the description of this relating to actions of a "fictional character"; such statements undermine the canon status of the game engine and also don't make sense considering that all of this is fictional.

I guess I will explain more in detail my decision.


I do not believe the Supreme Court can simulate fantasy court case like that. The main reason being  basically due process. How could this fictional character "Elon Musk" be represented realistically? He's not even a real person in this game.

I'm not even against this kind of "fun stories", it's just to me the Supreme Court isn't going to host court cases where the accused person doesn't exist.

It's main point against it.

Elon Musk is, by the laws which established the game engine, a real person in the game. This is not a disputable fact. And constitutionally, being that Elon Musk acted in violation of federal law, his case falls under the jurisdiction of the supreme court. Presumably, his case would be represented by a player. Maybe a volunteer, or maybe there would have to be some sort of lottery system, there's several ways of potentially doing it. But a lack of creativity isn't my problem.

[windjammer]

Elon Musk isn't a player and the court isn't going to do a court case about someone who doesn't exist and who cannot represent himself

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

So putting the mudslinging aside now, I want to get the official position of the Chief Justice and/or other members of the Court so that this problem won't come up again: should the GM Team assume de facto jurisdiction over NPC cases? We need to address the existence of lower NPC courts (like the Delaware Court of Chancery) for future lawsuits that can be appealed directly to the Engine if they are inappropriate for the regional or Supreme courts. This needs to be in the form of a constitutional amendment or statute, and it's something that we'll need to know for future GM nominees if that's the route we're going.

[windjammer]

So putting the mudslinging aside now, I want to get the official position of the Chief Justice and/or other members of the Court so that this problem won't come up again: should the GM Team assume de facto jurisdiction over NPC cases? We need to address the existence of lower NPC courts (like the Delaware Court of Chancery) for future lawsuits that can be appealed directly to the Engine if they are inappropriate for the regional or Supreme courts. This needs to be in the form of a constitutional amendment or statute, and it's something that we'll need to know for future GM nominees if that's the route we're going.

Honestly yes definitely. NPC court trials aren't the Supreme Court Juridiction. NewYorkExpress can simulate it.

I'm not trying to block you from doing your things. It's not our prerogatives simply.

[NewYorkExpress]

So putting the mudslinging aside now, I want to get the official position of the Chief Justice and/or other members of the Court so that this problem won't come up again: should the GM Team assume de facto jurisdiction over NPC cases? We need to address the existence of lower NPC courts (like the Delaware Court of Chancery) for future lawsuits that can be appealed directly to the Engine if they are inappropriate for the regional or Supreme courts. This needs to be in the form of a constitutional amendment or statute, and it's something that we'll need to know for future GM nominees if that's the route we're going.

I'm not sure it even requires a new law, quite frankly.

[windjammer]

So putting the mudslinging aside now, I want to get the official position of the Chief Justice and/or other members of the Court so that this problem won't come up again: should the GM Team assume de facto jurisdiction over NPC cases? We need to address the existence of lower NPC courts (like the Delaware Court of Chancery) for future lawsuits that can be appealed directly to the Engine if they are inappropriate for the regional or Supreme courts. This needs to be in the form of a constitutional amendment or statute, and it's something that we'll need to know for future GM nominees if that's the route we're going.

I'm not sure it even requires a new law, quite frankly.

^^

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Spectacular legislative prowess to pass an ultimately pretty meaningless ”reform” and somehow completely ignore the consequences of said bill! Hopefully the Supreme Court doesn’t take their usual leisurely pace with deliberations otherwise the next senate may never be seated! Given it’s taken the NPC case more than 2 months to select a jury, an interregnum till fresh elections may be on the cards.