Should the US have a system for banning movies/video games?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No.

And of course, if anyone votes no and says something like "Hell no, it's a complete violation of free speech!", etc. then what makes it OK for places like Ireland and Australia to do so? Because I've noticed an attitude of "It's no big deal" toward bannings in those countries, while if anything was banned here there'd be holy hell.

Even though the first Manhunt wasn't a very good game, I feel like buying Manhunt 2, just as a way of saying "f**k you" to censors in other countries.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yes, but one that is rarely used.  Such as, movies of actual people being raped (for example) should be banned, as well as child pornography would definitely fall under than ban.

As Dibble pointed out, that's not what I'm asking about, as such material is already illegal.

I don't really care.  In the places where things do get banned, they're generally not without reason

That doesn't mean it's a GOOD reason. According to Gully Foyle, a movie I own, Spun, is banned in Ireland, and I didn't see anything offensive in that film at all. I also don't find it very fair that I would be prohibited from owning it if I lived in Ireland.

I saw an interview with the Irish guy in charge of the Irish censorship organization about his decision to ban Manhunt 2, and he seemed like a very sensible guy who honestly didn't like banning things.

Then why ban anything? Even if he has that power, he doesn't have to use it.

He wasn't exactly the type of jackbooted fascist that seems to get commonly associated with the topic of censorship.  I honestly thought he justified his position pretty well.

Not saying that my answer is that I do want something like that in North America, but I can understand why it happens.

Understanding something doesn't mean it's not a load of crap. I can understand why some municipalities are dry, but that doesn't mean it's a position I find logical and that I wouldn't be 100% opposed to happening in where I live.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yes, but one that is rarely used.  Such as, movies of actual people being raped (for example) should be banned, as well as child pornography would definitely fall under than ban.

As Dibble pointed out, that's not what I'm asking about, as such material is already illegal.

I don't really care.  In the places where things do get banned, they're generally not without reason

That doesn't mean it's a GOOD reason. According to Gully Foyle, a movie I own, Spun, is banned in Ireland, and I didn't see anything offensive in that film at all. I also don't find it very fair that I would be prohibited from owning it if I lived in Ireland.

Spun was originally denied a certificate; but was granted an 18 certificate on appeal.

Even if it was 'banned' (and I've already explained to you that I don't agree with the use of the word in this context), you wouldn't be prohibited from owning it - you would be prohibited from broadcasting it in a commercial cinema. I understand this level of nuance may be beyond you, but I think it's worth trying to clarify nonetheless.

Yes, I understand that, but it's still a ridiculous and repressive restriction.

Even though the first Manhunt wasn't a very good game, I feel like buying Manhunt 2, just as a way of saying "f**k you" to censors in other countries.

Yes, I heard that John Kelleher, the Irish Film Censor, had to cry himself to sleep when he found out about this.

He probably doesn't care, but people like the idiot who made this video might: http://youtube.com/watch?v=hdhDwtHnizs

He probably would care if I were smuggling copies into Ireland or importing them, since otherwise he wouldn't have banned it. I can't smuggle them but I would love to ebay one to an Irish person.

Which IIRC was one of only two things he has banned since coming to that office in 2003.. (and certainly Manhunt 2 was the first video game to be banned in Ireland.)

Doesn't matter. NOTHING should be banned. The ability to do so shouldn't even exist.

It was to be said though, that the level of Moral 'prudery' (as you put it) in Ireland is nothing like in America. For a start there is no religious right except for some tiny groups which only seem to appear everytime there is a referendum on Abortion or the EU or Divorce. There are many things I dislike about my country BRTD, but social conservativism is not it, at least not in the 2000s (social conformism on the other hand.. But then again with your Che Guevara t-Shirts and oh-so-cool "leftism" you would know alot about that wouldn't you?)

However:

1-The US doesn't ban media and has no mechanism for doing so.
2-I can't think of anywhere where the US is more socially repressive than Ireland. Sodomy laws back before 2003 I suppose, but that was only the south, and I sure as hell don't care about them.

Goddamn it BRTD why must you hate Ireland so must I have defend it every time you post?

It mostly comes from my anti-Catholicism.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

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Historically speaking it was English who imported Moral prudery into Ireland (Ireland was one of the most sexually liberal countries in Europe until the mid-16th Century.. and also one of the most religious in a devotional sense; though how seriously the church was taken is shown by the fact that the priesthood was often a hereditary positions). It was only forces of the Reformation, the Counter-Reformation and later Cultural nationalism and revival which created the stifling attitude towards sexuality which is commonly associated with Ireland. Which reached it's peak after independance, especially after WWII but eventually died down with Liberal Victory after the Cultural wars of the 80s and 90s. I would still not describe Ireland as a liberal country, because it's not, but it's attitude towards sex is alot less conservative than previous. Certainly apart from some very rural areas; I don't think there is much of a stigma against Homosexuality any more. It's not even an issue in a political sense anyway, everyone except one or two die-hards has accepted the liberal arguement. (51% of Irish approve of Gay Marriage.. Americans?)

Btw, The Magdalene launderies were originally formed in Calvinist Scotland. But like everything else once Imported into Ireland it was rebranded in a particularly Irish way.

Somewhat interesting, but not really relevant to the modern day.

Ridiculous? Yes. Repressive? There are some monks in Burma who would disagree with that...

There's different levels of repression. It's not on Burma's level, but it's still repression.

From experience I can tell you that Irish people are way ahead of you at that. It's only illegal to supply it with intent to sell.

Then what's the whole point of a ban?

NC-17 Rating anyone?

NC-17 movies are banned? That's interesting. I must've imagined the countless ones I've seen in rental places, or the ads I saw for Showgirls, The Dreamers and A Dirty Shame when they were playing in theaters. Much of this was in the middle of North Dakota by the way.

NC-17 ratings, or any moving ratings for that matter, are not imposed by the government either.

You have no clue, do you? Ireland was never much of conservative place; it was always a conformist place. But not now, The area I live in (when I'm in Dublin) is far, far from conservative in the American sense. Yes I know about the law, but I'm talking about what people actually do, which is important.

The law's what matters most.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

1-The US doesn't ban media and has no mechanism for doing so.

The US isn't exactly a free speech utopia.  Even if certain things aren't banned by statute, government and media pressure censors a lot of legitimate news and opinion.

Frankly, I think it is within the Qwest CEO's rights as a citizen to utilize free speech and freedom of the press to explain what the Bush administration requested of his company.  But the federal government has prohibited him from doing so.

True, but that's a completely different area than banning video games and movies.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

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Contradicting your Anti-Catholicism..

Howso?

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Perhaps so that people in Officialdom will be seen not to be endorsing controversial products. Those who want Manhunt 2 and have the means to do so (ie. Connection to the Internet or knowledge of the Black market), will get it. Morality is not the only reason behind a potential ban, you know.

Or they could simply not deal with the regulation of such products at all and put an end to this idea of being "seen" doing so. In the US the idea that not banning such a product is the equivalent of endorsing it would be seen as hilarious in even the most conservative areas.

In Mainstream movie theatres it has the same effect of restricting access.

All of the movies I mentioned above were playing in mainstream movie theaters. Hell I remember how my friend's brother (15 at the time) bragged about how he got into Showgirls at the theater.

And I said already rental video stores tend to flount the banning rules (Showgirls is "banned" here but able to rent on DVD at my nearby store.)

And possibly the edited version.

The law is only what the Elite\Officialdom thinks; not what the rest of the population do. A law without being followed by a good majority of the population is essentially useless and bound to fail. (And has). Plus even so Ireland's laws on sexuality aren't much more conservative now than those in the States and perhaps more liberal than those in the south.

I don't care about the south, I wish they would secede again.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The law's what matters most.

In America, perhaps; in other places where some laws are rarely enforced, it really matters very little.

Except it is enforced, even if you can still easily import Manhunt 2, it's still not available for sale. Most countries that ban movies/video games do take them seriously, in Melbourne, Australia a public showing of Ken Park was shut down.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well it's a bit more complicated than *THAT* but it is rather complicated and can really only be understood by people who know Irish culture fairly well (ie. Lived here for quite a while.) It should be pointed out here that most Irish people (if they have at all) only heard of Manhunt 2 after it was banned; I suspect Kelleher banned it in order to counter some the Maternalist moaning over Video Games that occurs in certain parts of this country which he knew would ensue should the game be released generally.

Ah, well that proves there is a much more hangup over this sort of thing in Ireland than here.

Plus it should be noted that here Censor ratings (the Irish Equivalents of R, PG-13, etc) are not followed at all and it used to be quite easy for my 12-year old brother to rent out GTA3.

12 year olds here can also easily rent GTA games. I rented countless M-video games before I was 17. States have tried to pass laws against this, but they NEVER last 5 minutes in court.

It was also extremely easy to rent or get into R rated movies as long as you looked like you were at least in high school, and I've already told th story of the local rental place whose boss specifically told employees to rent to kids who looked underage.

I also note the "used to" in that statement. So 12 year olds can't get GTA games now? If so, Ireland is certainly more repressive than the US in that respect.

Still part of your country; Ireland has some VERY traditionalist parts as well (I will refrain from the word "conservative" though as it means something different in Ireland than in America.) such as well, most of Ireland west of the River Shannon, South Kerry, West Cork, etc. But they are still part of the country. Though under American defintions I would say easily nowadays the Republic of Ireland is much more liberal than Northern Ireland. Especially in Rural areas.

But the south doesn't affect the laws here. The only thing they do is elect horrible politicians to the national level. Which is quite awful, but I can still ignore that when talk about local issues.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

100% say no. That pretty much explains how dominant the 18-24 age bracket is on this forum right there.

I doubt this would have much support among any age bracket, since such blatant censorship is so frowned upon here (even by most conservatives)