PA-SN 2022 megathread: Shrek vs. The Wizard of Oz

[Kung Fu Kenny]

Ok what prevents the republican from sticking that messaging to him, run ads about his wealthy background and about his left-wing policies, how will he respond to the ads calling him a phony ?

He didn’t have a “wealthy” background. He grew up middle class and has always been middle class. He can respond by saying it was easier for a kid like him to get into Harvard back in the 80s because he didn’t have to worry about going into extreme debt or choosing between college and supporting his family because college has become prohibitively expensive for kids without actually rich parents. He can even talk about the white privilege afforded to kids who grow up middle class who can go to good schools but not minority students because of systemic racism. There, I just knocked out 2 of his main campaign talking points in response to one (dumb) attack ad.

yeah because mentioning white privilege is going to go down so well in the WWC areas he's strong in.

Also, like the man literally did not have an income while being mayor of Braddock and was entirely supported by family money.  Imagine the ads accusing him of being a trust-fund baby, let alone attacks on him creating a welfare state in Braddock by giving away houses and a whisper campagin against his wife for being an undocumented immigrant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gisele_Barreto_Fetterman
https://www.post-gazette.com/local/east/2015/12/18/Fetterman-s-finances-attract-attention/stories/201512180168

I don’t fault you for assuming that Republicans will be racist and misleading in their attack ads, but you seem all too eager to write the ads for them.

[Zaybay]

I saw a thumbnail image of Fetterman on YouTube earlier today, and his appearance fits the stereotype of a tough, no nonsense, blue-collar, WWC miner, construction worker, contractor, or factory worker. I don't know that much about his background. Is this why many seem to have such confidence in his capabilities as a candidate for federal or statewide office?

He's got a master of public policy from Harvard and comes from a rich family.

That synopsis is basically like skipping over the entirety of a novel only to read the last chapter.

I know about his effort in Braddock to revitalize the depressed town but I'm honestly worried he's going to feel patronizing towards the WWC areas people expect him to be strong in. Like the democrats want your vote so nominate a rich educated elite who larps like one of you, and his politics is pretty left-wing and out of line with the area.

It's like when they nominated Lollefer in Georgia to win back the suburban woman only to have it fall completely on their face. Partisan dems love Fetterman but I don't think he's got much strength among indepdents or republicans.

And this fear that he would be patronizing is based off of?

Listen man, ignoring the fact that Fetterman's family isn't rich to begin with (in fact the actual story of his parent's financial status is itself very interesting), having a degree from Harvard or other prestigious universities is not something typically thrown against a candidate or even really ostracized by the electorate.

I mean, look at the halls of congress and previous politicians. Harvard University on its own has a large number of alumni that include:
- Barack Obama
- Ben Sasse
- Tom Cotton
- Russ Feingold
- Al Franken
- Dan Sullivan (GOP Senator)
- Joe Sestak
and probably one of the more important ones in the context of this conversation, Pat Toomey. And that's just looking at a couple from Harvard.

In all honesty, this fear appears to be largely unfounded. Fetterman may flub up and be considered patronizing during the campaign, but nothing about his profile would suggest that voters would find him a fake.

Also, Fetterman as a "rich educated elite"? Really? Come on man. By this definition almost any candidate the Democrats run would be considered a "rich educated elite".

Based on the fact that he hasn't actually won a remotely competitive race in PA before, he won a primary where the vote was split 4 ways on the back of strong regional support in Pittsburgh and Western PA. He was carried by tom wolf to an easy election in 2018 given they ran on the same ticket and has had no other electoral experience

He's an online left-wingers with standard progressive democratic policies except some moderation on guns, with his opening campagin pitch being about racial injustice and DACA. He's got a lot of fans among people partisan democrats who will always vote blue no matter what but not much other signs of crossover support.

Frankly the idea that just his appearance is enough to win back WWC votes is stupid and similar to the fantasies republcian have about their own minoirty candidates able to get them to overperform among minoirty voters.

Alright, let's respond to each one of these point by point.

1.Yes, he has not won a competitive statewide race before. This goes for most of our other possible candidates. Winning an election can be a positive to a candidate's overall profile, but never having won doesn't suddenly make the candidate bad. Hell, looking at the PA delegation, Lamb, Cartwright, and Houlahan never served in politics before running, and Wild was never elected to a position. Saying "he's never won a competitive election before" (which is false, he has. His first mayoral race was literally won by 1 vote), doesn't detract from him, just as it did not detract from Lamb or Cartwright when they ran.

2.Listen man, you're making two errors here. The first one being that you've created a rather obvious caricature of Fetterman that I'd bet no one in this thread will take seriously. The second one is that you don't actually have evidence of him lacking forms of crossover support.

3. The idea that a profile and appearance can win over more voters is widely known and tested. There is a reason Democrats tend to look for/recruit candidates with a military background, because said background is appealing and hits home for a lot of voters while also neutralizing some of the main attacks against Democrats. The speculative theory is the same for Fetterman's profile. It's hard to call the man a "rich, educated elite who will take your jobs" when he looks the way he does and has a profile that dis-arms the attack.

Now, maybe he doesn't do that well to win back rural, uneducated voter. But his profile, from a speculative standpoint, is a powerful one, and appeals to a huge mass of voters outside that demographic. So far, none of your reasons have been particularly powerful or carry such merit to suggest that his candidacy may be a flop or poor in choice.

[Horus]

I think Fetterman will win, but if he's facing Reschenthaler it'll be very close. Endorsed, of course.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Toomey and Ron Johnson won by the narrowest of margins, within the marrgin of error, of 3.5 percent, Biden flipped Kent, MI, WOW, WI and Erie, PA that's why the Midwest will go back D

[Blair]

Ok what prevents the republican from sticking that messaging to him, run ads about his wealthy background and about his left-wing policies, how will he respond to the ads calling him a phony ?

He didn’t have a “wealthy” background. He grew up middle class and has always been middle class. He can respond by saying it was easier for a kid like him to get into Harvard back in the 80s because he didn’t have to worry about going into extreme debt or choosing between college and supporting his family because college has become prohibitively expensive for kids without actually rich parents. He can even talk about the white privilege afforded to kids who grow up middle class who can go to good schools but not minority students because of systemic racism. There, I just knocked out 2 of his main campaign talking points in response to one (dumb) attack ad.

yeah because mentioning white privilege is going to go down so well in the WWC areas he's strong in.

Also, like the man literally did not have an income while being mayor of Braddock and was entirely supported by family money.  Imagine the ads accusing him of being a trust-fund baby, let alone attacks on him creating a welfare state in Braddock by giving away houses and a whisper campagin against his wife for being an undocumented immigrant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gisele_Barreto_Fetterman
https://www.post-gazette.com/local/east/2015/12/18/Fetterman-s-finances-attract-attention/stories/201512180168

Not true according to his wikipedia.

As the part-time mayor, Fetterman earned $110.22 a month in 2007. His full-time job, directing the Out-Of-School-Youth program, paid around $30,000 annually.

[Calthrina950]

I saw a thumbnail image of Fetterman on YouTube earlier today, and his appearance fits the stereotype of a tough, no nonsense, blue-collar, WWC miner, construction worker, contractor, or factory worker. I don't know that much about his background. Is this why many seem to have such confidence in his capabilities as a candidate for federal or statewide office?

He's got a master of public policy from Harvard and comes from a rich family.

I see, and this doesn't surprise me at all. Many politicians who portray themselves as "WWC populists" actually are not, with Trump himself being the most notorious example of this.

Well yeah duh, it's not like upward mobility is easy in this country. And it takes a lot of capital, including cultural capital to run for higher office

You always seem to get unnecessarily worked up by whatever I post, and I don't understand it. I still remember the response you gave to me several months ago when I was discussing how progressives and moderates fared in last year's House elections. But moving on from that, as I made clear above, I didn't know much about Fetterman's background, and I'm not trying to say that he would be a "terrible" candidate for Pennsylvania. I'm merely trying to understand why so many on this forum, and elsewhere, seem to have such an interest in his candidacy.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Part of the case for Fetterman doing better in small town America is that this is where his electoral career began and is probably the political territory he's most familiar with. Braddock is a heavily Democratic area, hardly rural and big asterisks about the advantages of incumbency and local vs federal politics apply, but the town has faced similar issues to much of Western PA and he did manage to increase his majority in the Democratic primary each time he ran for reelection (with no serious opposition in the GE).

I agree Cartwright is probably a better choice but there's no indication he's going to make a bid for it.

[retromike22]

The atlas poster drcynic wrote this up about Fetterman, a good read-

https://twitter.com/AtlasAfter/status/1356728488397402112

[ctherainbow]

I agree Cartwright is probably a better choice but there's no indication he's going to make a bid for it.

Per several members of his campaign staff, he would prefer to stay in the House, so they’re waiting to see whether redistricting screws him or Susan Wild over.  He has seniority on her, and could theoretically pick up the rest of Monroe and Northampton in redistricting, while Wild gets pushed further west.  But if Matt ends up adding Susquehanna, Wayne, Carbon, or the red portions of Luzerne, he’ll probably jump into the Senate race.

[The Mikado]

I agree Cartwright is probably a better choice but there's no indication he's going to make a bid for it.

Per several members of his campaign staff, he would prefer to stay in the House, so they’re waiting to see whether redistricting screws him or Susan Wild over.  He has seniority on her, and could theoretically pick up the rest of Monroe and Northampton in redistricting, while Wild gets pushed further west.  But if Matt ends up adding Susquehanna, Wayne, Carbon, or the red portions of Luzerne, he’ll probably jump into the Senate race.

Wait, why Senate and not Governor? Who's gonna replace Wolf?

[Roll Roons]

I agree Cartwright is probably a better choice but there's no indication he's going to make a bid for it.

Per several members of his campaign staff, he would prefer to stay in the House, so they’re waiting to see whether redistricting screws him or Susan Wild over.  He has seniority on her, and could theoretically pick up the rest of Monroe and Northampton in redistricting, while Wild gets pushed further west.  But if Matt ends up adding Susquehanna, Wayne, Carbon, or the red portions of Luzerne, he’ll probably jump into the Senate race.

Wait, why Senate and not Governor? Who's gonna replace Wolf?

Shapiro is the Democratic frontrunner for governor, and there's no reason to think he won't get the nomination. 

[politicallefty]

I can't say specifically why I think John Fetterman is the right candidate, but I just feel like he is. One truism about the American people is that a lot of people vote based on feeling. He has a background most Americans can relate to. He came from the common middle class and was fortunate enough to go to Harvard, something most parents in this country would love for their children (despite whatever attacks on the liberal elite some may say or believe).

All of the attacks I'm seeing are ones that will be levelled against the Democratic nominee no matter who it is. That shouldn't be the issue. What may be the issue is the response to those attacks. We'll have to see on that part.

I think the notion that Pennsylvania is an R-leaning state defies the truth. It took a massive Republican wave for Toomey to win in 2010 and Trump's inside straight to win again. The only impressive Republican wins in PA this century are the 2000 and 2004 Senate races and the 2010 gubernatorial election. All other major Republican wins were scraping by with no more than a 2% win.

[walleye26]

One thing I think might be interesting is that Fetterman is like 6’8” or something. He’s a huge guy. If the GOP tries some “he’s weak” line about crime or something I don’t see that sticking. The dude’s physical presence would make it appear the opposite. It would be like calling John Cena weak. Is this a petty thing? Sure. But politics is a performance art and optics matter.

[Pollster]

I went to college in Boston and socialized quite a bit with folks at Harvard, and I’m genuinely confused by this “Harvard makes you out of touch with working people” idea. Granted it was quite some time ago, but I found virtually all of them to be genuinely good and well-meaning people, many from modest backgrounds who viewed their place at Harvard as being a big deal for their families and a major reason why they believed their futures would be brighter than their pasts.

I’m sure there were plenty of trust-fund children, legacy admissions, and students outright bribed in, and I’m sure that the cost of education/student loan nonsense of today has changed some things, but it’s broadly generalistic and out of touch in its own right to suggest that a Harvard education makes one unable to understand the issues of working families.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

I went to college in Boston and socialized quite a bit with folks at Harvard, and I’m genuinely confused by this “Harvard makes you out of touch with working people” idea. Granted it was quite some time ago, but I found virtually all of them to be genuinely good and well-meaning people, many from modest backgrounds who viewed their place at Harvard as being a big deal for their families and a major reason why they believed their futures would be brighter than their pasts.

I’m sure there were plenty of trust-fund children, legacy admissions, and students outright bribed in, and I’m sure that the cost of education/student loan nonsense of today has changed some things, but it’s broadly generalistic and out of touch in its own right to suggest that a Harvard education makes one unable to understand the issues of working families.

But, but fox said Harvard bad! Coaster elitism!!! Rich! Harvard make people Kennedy!

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I went to college in Boston and socialized quite a bit with folks at Harvard, and I’m genuinely confused by this “Harvard makes you out of touch with working people” idea. Granted it was quite some time ago, but I found virtually all of them to be genuinely good and well-meaning people, many from modest backgrounds who viewed their place at Harvard as being a big deal for their families and a major reason why they believed their futures would be brighter than their pasts.

I’m sure there were plenty of trust-fund children, legacy admissions, and students outright bribed in, and I’m sure that the cost of education/student loan nonsense of today has changed some things, but it’s broadly generalistic and out of touch in its own right to suggest that a Harvard education makes one unable to understand the issues of working families.

Politics is about perception not reality, Fetterman can be framed as an elitest using things like his Harvard education and reliance on family funds. His politics is also pretty left-wing and leaves him vulnerable to whisper campaigns.

I don't know why people are assuming he's a strong candidate in rural Pennsylvania other than his appearance. He won the LT governor primary when the vote was split between 3 eastern PA canidates.He has no other statewide success and mayor of Braddock was more a social experimenting/philantrophy experiment than something that shows his electoral strenght.

[mikhaela]

He is now officially in.

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/02/08/politics/john-fetterman-pennsylvania-senate-race-2022/index.html

[warandwar]

[
Politics is about perception not reality...

I don't know why people are assuming he's a strong candidate in rural Pennsylvania other than his appearance.

Asked and answered

[Not Me, Us]

https://twitter.com/JohnFetterman/status/1358776958042181635

Fetterman officially IN! Endorsed!

[KaiserDave]

hmmmm

[Zaybay]

I went to college in Boston and socialized quite a bit with folks at Harvard, and I’m genuinely confused by this “Harvard makes you out of touch with working people” idea. Granted it was quite some time ago, but I found virtually all of them to be genuinely good and well-meaning people, many from modest backgrounds who viewed their place at Harvard as being a big deal for their families and a major reason why they believed their futures would be brighter than their pasts.

I’m sure there were plenty of trust-fund children, legacy admissions, and students outright bribed in, and I’m sure that the cost of education/student loan nonsense of today has changed some things, but it’s broadly generalistic and out of touch in its own right to suggest that a Harvard education makes one unable to understand the issues of working families.

Politics is about perception not reality, Fetterman can be framed as an elitest using things like his Harvard education and reliance on family funds. His politics is also pretty left-wing and leaves him vulnerable to whisper campaigns.

I don't know why people are assuming he's a strong candidate in rural Pennsylvania other than his appearance. He won the LT governor primary when the vote was split between 3 eastern PA canidates.He has no other statewide success and mayor of Braddock was more a social experimenting/philantrophy experiment than something that shows his electoral strenght.

If that's true, then Fetterman is clearly the one to benefit.

[brucejoel99]

I went to college in Boston and socialized quite a bit with folks at Harvard, and I’m genuinely confused by this “Harvard makes you out of touch with working people” idea. Granted it was quite some time ago, but I found virtually all of them to be genuinely good and well-meaning people, many from modest backgrounds who viewed their place at Harvard as being a big deal for their families and a major reason why they believed their futures would be brighter than their pasts.

I’m sure there were plenty of trust-fund children, legacy admissions, and students outright bribed in, and I’m sure that the cost of education/student loan nonsense of today has changed some things, but it’s broadly generalistic and out of touch in its own right to suggest that a Harvard education makes one unable to understand the issues of working families.

Politics is about perception not reality, Fetterman can be framed as an elitest using things like his Harvard education and reliance on family funds. His politics is also pretty left-wing and leaves him vulnerable to whisper campaigns.

I don't know why people are assuming he's a strong candidate in rural Pennsylvania other than his appearance. He won the LT governor primary when the vote was split between 3 eastern PA canidates.He has no other statewide success and mayor of Braddock was more a social experimenting/philantrophy experiment than something that shows his electoral strenght.

If that's true, then Fetterman is clearly the one to benefit.

Yeah, if the supposed reality is that Fetterman's actually some rich elitist who got a Harvard education & was able to live without an income thanks to money from his rich family, then he's done a great f**king job thus far of ingraining this perception into all of our minds that he's just your run-of-the-mill tough, no-nonsense, blue-collar member of the WWC.

[GALeftist]

https://twitter.com/Laurenjmayk/status/1358862149859311616

Just a wonderful candidate. Enthusiastically endorsed, obviously.

[Kung Fu Kenny]

https://twitter.com/Laurenjmayk/status/1358862149859311616

Just a wonderful candidate. Enthusiastically endorsed, obviously.

I love this guy so much. Signed up this morning for volunteer opportunities.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I went to college in Boston and socialized quite a bit with folks at Harvard, and I’m genuinely confused by this “Harvard makes you out of touch with working people” idea. Granted it was quite some time ago, but I found virtually all of them to be genuinely good and well-meaning people, many from modest backgrounds who viewed their place at Harvard as being a big deal for their families and a major reason why they believed their futures would be brighter than their pasts.

I’m sure there were plenty of trust-fund children, legacy admissions, and students outright bribed in, and I’m sure that the cost of education/student loan nonsense of today has changed some things, but it’s broadly generalistic and out of touch in its own right to suggest that a Harvard education makes one unable to understand the issues of working families.

Politics is about perception not reality, Fetterman can be framed as an elitest using things like his Harvard education and reliance on family funds. His politics is also pretty left-wing and leaves him vulnerable to whisper campaigns.

I don't know why people are assuming he's a strong candidate in rural Pennsylvania other than his appearance. He won the LT governor primary when the vote was split between 3 eastern PA canidates.He has no other statewide success and mayor of Braddock was more a social experimenting/philantrophy experiment than something that shows his electoral strenght.

If that's true, then Fetterman is clearly the one to benefit.

Yeah, if the supposed reality is that Fetterman's actually some rich elitist who got a Harvard education & was able to live without an income thanks to money from his rich family, then he's done a great f**king job thus far of ingraining this perception into all of our minds that he's just your run-of-the-mill tough, no-nonsense, blue-collar member of the WWC.

Are you an actual swing voter or somebody from rural PA who voted for Trump ? being loved among partisan democrats doesn't translte into direct appele to trump receptive rural areas of the pensyvania.