Mayor Boris backs Barack. (user search)
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  Mayor Boris backs Barack. (search mode)
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Author Topic: Mayor Boris backs Barack.  (Read 3418 times)
Dan the Roman
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« on: August 03, 2008, 07:32:18 PM »

Not a huge surprise that he supports Obama. When I was over at Cambridge for a year, and took part in the Conservative Association , probably half to two-thirds of the membership preferred the Democrats over here. McCain is not the type of figure who would have much appeal in the UK(or anywhere in Europe really, except maybe Denmark).
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Dan the Roman
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« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2008, 10:34:15 PM »

David Cameron also had some nice things to say about Obama; he gave him a Gorillaz CD, if I remember correctly. Smiley

Yeah, typical Cameron - playing every single side to every issue/doing anything that seems popular. Or at least how he's portrayed and seems to be to me. As you can tell, I'm not a fan.

But, in all fairness, you can say plenty of nice things about someone (especially such a high profile guest from America) but still prefer someone else. I still don't know why Obama met with Cameron though. I don't even recall Bush meeting with Cameron or any other Tory leader during his time in office.

The Bush Administration actually has as a general matter shown a cold shoulder to the Conservatives. This is due both to the friendly relations the Administration has enjoyed with Blair, and even to a lesser extent Brown, and the fact that a number of Conservatives have very critical of Administration policies ranging from Iraq to Guantanamo, to detention, to Israel Palestine. I believe Bush explicitly refused to meet with Ian Duncan Smith when he was in the country, and the same applied to Howard. I doubt they are much more enamored of Cameron than he is of them

Actually, I think at least until Blair left, Bush probably actually preferred a Labour government in England. I can't really see how anyone could have been more Pro-American than Blair, and his religious faith probably appealed to Bush.
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Dan the Roman
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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2008, 11:02:29 PM »

probably half to two-thirds of the membership preferred the Democrats over here. McCain is not the type of figure who would have much appeal in the UK(or anywhere in Europe really, except maybe Denmark).

Which is kind of odd since McCain was invited to speak and was well received (as far as I could tell) at a Tory convention of some sort about a year ago.

I figured that McCain would have some appeal in Europe at the very least because of the perception that he's center-right and not exactly from the more extreme wing of the party.



From what I saw, It really depends which faction of the Conservatives you are talking about. Ever since 1997 there has been a split between those on the left wing of the party who believed everything bad that happened between 1992-1997 was the result of Margaret Thatcher poisoning the party's politics, and that if the party would move back to the center and elect Ken Clarke leader everything would be better. This tended to be the view of those who were "in" with John Major's government. This wing is the one that both Boris Johnson and Cameron are from, and tends to be Pro-American in orientation, but to believe that while it can be improved, the British system of social support is preferable to anything in the United States, and that the Tories have nothing to learn from the US or the Republican Party. This faction tends to also dominate the elite university Tory groups(or at least Cambridge), but has little grassroots support, sort of like how College Republicans in the US tend to be much more socially liberal than the grassroots.


On the other side were those who believed that everything went wrong because Major abandoned Thatcher's confrontational style, and that what was needed was stand tall in favor of free-market reforms, capitalism, anti-socialism, and generally all things Conservative. This group tends to idolize America, and is enormously impressed with how the US Republicans managed to take positions that would have been unpopular in England, and make them
mainstream. This group also tends to maintain strong social links with US conservative groups.
were both in this wing. John O'Sullivan, the National Review Editor is a good example. William Hague and Ian Duncan Smith

The second faction ran the party from 1997-2004 and ran it into the electoral ground. in 2004 the Party's elder statesman came together and ousted Smith, and replaced him with Michael Howard, who while part of the second group, built up a coalition leadership. He also came to the conclusion after the 2005 elections that Thatcherites-Toryism was a non-starter, especially because it meant that the Tories were unable to take advantage of the Labour governments unpopular policies like Iraq, and public sector reform, because the Tories also supported them. Therefore he did everything in his power to ensure that Cameron succeeded him as leader.

I remember distinctly when McCain came over for the 2006 conference partially because I was over there. A lot of the applause for him was as much a hit on Cameron by Thatcherites as support for McCain himself. Second, most of what McCain said was inoffensive anyway. He barely dwelled on Iraq, and talked about Aids in Africa, and hit the Republicans in congress for spending too much, and quite frankly I applauded too. I doubt he would have gotten anywhere near that applause, even from the Thatcherites if he had made the type of speech he is making this year which is usually at least 70% Iraq. Britain is pulling out of Iraq this year, and no one except for the extreme right wing of the Conservative party and Tony Blair is upset about that.

I think the big thing that suprised me, and I think surprises a lot of Americans, is the position of Thatcher in the Conservative party. Most Republicans draw a line between her and Reagan and assume she occupies a similar role in the Conservative party. She doesn't. She was far more divisive and a lot less popular while in office, and she inflicted enormous damage on her reputation with her behavior towards her successor. As a result she is far more controversial within the Conservative party, and invoking her outside the party is a good way to lose votes.

Now this was my impressions from a year there as an undergraduate in politics and another as a graduate student, so our British posters are welcome to correct me, but this was the impression I got.
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Dan the Roman
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2008, 10:18:55 AM »

probably half to two-thirds of the membership preferred the Democrats over here. McCain is not the type of figure who would have much appeal in the UK(or anywhere in Europe really, except maybe Denmark).

Which is kind of odd since McCain was invited to speak and was well received (as far as I could tell) at a Tory convention of some sort about a year ago.

I figured that McCain would have some appeal in Europe at the very least because of the perception that he's center-right and not exactly from the more extreme wing of the party.

To put things into perspective, there was a YouGov poll on which American candidate Britons preferred. Tory supporters split evenly between Obama and McCain while Labour was something like 90-10 for Obama, and the survey found no Lib Dem voters who preferred McCain (must not have polled Montgomeryshire).

Well, that suggests that he has at least some appeal within Europe, though it is mainly with conservative voters. I have a feeling that Obama's support among Tories has a lot to do with McCain's strong support for the war and the fact that even McCain is more vocal about social issues than European conservatives.

I think undoubtedly it comes down to foreign policy, and I have little doubt if this were 2000, McCain would have overwhelming support. Its just that his rightward shift in the last two years has gone over less well with Britons. Luckily for him, they can't vote, and it did get him the nomination, even if I think he could still have pulled that off with slightly less pandering than he ended up engaging in.
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