SENATE BILL: Pacific Deconstruction Resolution (Passed)

[President Tyrion]

Oops, I totally intended to go back and edit this. The constitution requires the consent of the regions and Senate for regional borders to be changed, which is why we're discussing this.

At first, my thought was to just take all the continental states and give them to the Midwest, while leaving Alaska, Hawaii, and Oceania to comprise the new Pacific, which can later dissolve (or remain a personal fiefdom without Senatorial representation) without really affecting the game dynamic.

However, just leaving those non-continental territories off seems like it would be a pretty aesthetically unpleasing move, so I'm going to make an amendment.

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The Pacific and Midwest are the two regions most in support of consolidation in the first place, so I figure this is worthy of discussion.

[President Tyrion]

Would this precipitate a situation where we'd have two regions, two Senators, and 1 regional government?

It's possible, but we'd need to pass an amendment allowing that to be the case.

[President Tyrion]

Well, regions are established for both governmental and electoral purposes. I don't know that I agree with Fritz's interpretation, but allow me a moment to collect my thoughts on the matter.

[President Tyrion]

Well, any such plan, as Fritz pointed out, requires Senatorial consent, so I suggest we give it, on the condition that the regions actually want it

[President Tyrion]

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Does this work?

[President Tyrion]

That seems to work, and it meets the constitutional requirement that regions have to provide consent for their boundaries to be "altered", even if this is not exactly what is happening in that case. A "two region, 1 government" solution seems fine to me.

Yeah, regardless, the regions must provide consent.

[President Tyrion]

Is there a way to include language about it must be approved by a referendum of the two regions, if a majority of citizens in one region object, then the union will not go through.

Presumably, the regions can approve it however they want. The Senate I think should not interfere because this is a process explicitly left to the regions once we give consent.

[President Tyrion]

However, Tyrion, surely as Senator of the Pacific you are aware of the risks associated with such a ironically, "conservative" (in the judicial sense of the word) approach, no? 

Yeah, but I feel as though it's the only path.

[President Tyrion]

Tyrion, your thoughts on what I said on Saturday?

We are required to give consent before they can enter into such an agreement, and there is no obligation for us to grant such. It is up to our discretion. As long as it is so, then we have a means to extract what we want. The Constitution doesn't prohibit us from setting conditions on such consent being present.  

The amendment is adopted.

Well, I'm certainly not averse to some conditions. Did you have something in mind?

[President Tyrion]

Maybe I'm a bit rusty here, but:

What exactly is the purpose of creating a single government while leaving two regions in existence?

Is "we don't know what to do with an extra Senate seat" the main argument for such an approach?

Isn't the consent process identical whether this proposal is adopted or the regions are merged (the consent of the Senate is required for any change in regional boundaries; the consent of the Regions being changed is required)?

Furthermore (with the exception of the Senate seat), what tangible difference is there between two regions with one government and one region with one government?

I'm supportive of the overall goal here, but am not exactly pleased with this seemingly bubble-gum patchwork solution as-is. More than 60% of Atlasians supported three regions (let alone four) when I left, and I'm only assuming that the Right was able to steer the message away from that and dilute sentiment in the mean time. Still, both regions in question approved the Fix the Regions amendment, so it's pretty obvious where these constituents fall on the broader issue - the Senate should oblige them. The regions certainly haven't become healthier in the interim, as best I can tell.

The reason is quite simple, AG. This wouldn't require a constitutional amendment. Changing the Senate structure would. It makes no sense to allow the Mideast, IDS, and Northeast, beyond their duly elected representative(s) to the Senate, have much of a say in the maintenance of the two other regions.

[President Tyrion]

Maybe I'm a bit rusty here, but:

What exactly is the purpose of creating a single government while leaving two regions in existence?

Is "we don't know what to do with an extra Senate seat" the main argument for such an approach?

Isn't the consent process identical whether this proposal is adopted or the regions are merged (the consent of the Senate is required for any change in regional boundaries; the consent of the Regions being changed is required)?

Furthermore (with the exception of the Senate seat), what tangible difference is there between two regions with one government and one region with one government?

I'm supportive of the overall goal here, but am not exactly pleased with this seemingly bubble-gum patchwork solution as-is. More than 60% of Atlasians supported three regions (let alone four) when I left, and I'm only assuming that the Right was able to steer the message away from that and dilute sentiment in the mean time. Still, both regions in question approved the Fix the Regions amendment, so it's pretty obvious where these constituents fall on the broader issue - the Senate should oblige them. The regions certainly haven't become healthier in the interim, as best I can tell.

The reason is quite simple, AG. This wouldn't require a constitutional amendment. Changing the Senate structure would. It makes no sense to allow the Mideast, IDS, and Northeast, beyond their duly elected representative(s) to the Senate, have much of a say in the maintenance of the two other regions.

Doesn't Article IV Section 2 allow for a clean merger without a constitutional amendment, or was that one of the purposes of the Fix the Regions Amendment?

Another article (too lazy to look it up) specifies that there be 5 Senators elected from the Regions in the Class A Senate elections. You are technically correct, but this would cause a constitutional crisis if I'm interpreting it correctly.

I'm all for crises. In reality, though, wouldn't we simply need a constitutional amendment to deal with the extra Senate seat? If this is the case, I see no reason why comprehensive consolidation or reform should be held hostage because of any such worries. I'm guessing the VP might not like there being only 9 Senators for a period of time, but it seems like an issue that Atlasia as a whole could and would address separately and in a timely fashion. If not, then oh well: at least the biggest crisis (weak, ineffective regions) will have been mostly addressed.

Well, preferably, we could keep things going as smoothly for the other regions as possible. I'd definitely support an amendment, but I'm not sure the public will be so supportive.

[President Tyrion]

I think we can give it a day, and move forward with the bill as written.

[President Tyrion]

You guys can pass the original bill if you wish, and I would not mind if you did, but all we require is permission to form a merger. The Constitution forbids an "alliance" without Senate permission, but "alliance" would be open to interpretation because the Constitution does not define it. Look, a permission to form a merger or alliance at least would be an excellent trade-off to having the stimulus embraced on my end. So! We could approve the stimulus and then work for a merger. Everybody happy? Yes, I think so. It would be good to proceed that way, I think.

However, if you demand that the stimulus be accepted but then deny a merger / alliance request, it looks like you have a one-way street as opposed to a two-way street. You know?

We're pretty much doing exactly that. The amended version of the bill satisfies the vagaries of the constitution. Don't worry; I got your back.

[President Tyrion]

Aye

I enjoy how Labor has turned things on its head and is now very consistently voting early and all the time.

[President Tyrion]

It does not appear that the President's signature is required for this. It just says "consent of the Senate".

Yeah, Duke isn't required for this.