North Korea Mega Thread

[TheSaint250]

Here's something that'll lighten up the mood (it'll do the exact opposite):

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/31/politics/north-korea-ejection-test-submarine-activity/index.html

So now even their sub tech is getting better.

[TheSaint250]

There's a good possibility that even if regime change happens the North Korean citizens won't go quietly. Many hate the regime but many are also brainwashed into loving it. Worst I can see is Vietcong-level resistance to a democratic North Korea or unified Korea.

[TheSaint250]

If North Korea attacks us, I don't see why fire and fury isn't appropriate.  We should avoid war at all costs, but if it comes down to it, as in North Korea attacks us, Trump is right.

People who are complaining about retaliatory strikes are wrong.

[TheSaint250]

If North Korea attacks us, I don't see why fire and fury isn't appropriate.  We should avoid war at all costs, but if it comes down to it, as in North Korea attacks us, Trump is right.

People who are complaining about retaliatory strikes are wrong.

Everyone knows this.

The issue is Trump's threat. He played into NK's hands with this kind of talk that he won't follow through.

He is to dangerous and stupid to be president. Get him the **** out of there.

We bombed Syria when no Americans were attacked. We will most certainly bomb North Korea if they, God forbid, attack us

[TheSaint250]

Its far too late to be planning a preventive war. As much as we hate it, the status quo seems like the best option. Let North Korea wall themselves off with nukes if it saves Seoul IMO.

Realistically, this seems like the most likely option imo. The US has lived with a hostile power having the capability to launch a nuclear weapon on the US mainland before, and North Korea is never going to launch a missile against any other country because they know that their regime won't survive the war. I don't see why some here are so ready for the US to start a war... 

Why Trump wants to is pretty obvious:

It's pretty sad that you think a President promising to protect Americans if Americans are attacked is for approval ratings. That's just what a president does.

[TheSaint250]

If North Korea attacks us, I don't see why fire and fury isn't appropriate.  We should avoid war at all costs, but if it comes down to it, as in North Korea attacks us, Trump is right.

People who are complaining about retaliatory strikes are wrong.

Has anyone said that we shouldn't retaliate if they attack us or our allies?

Some are complaining about the fire and fury thing

[TheSaint250]

Ok well in that case forgive me for misreading

[TheSaint250]

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lol.

Again, good luck walking back that rhetoric, Mr. President.

Yes let's blame the president of seven months for some madman planning something they had talked about for years.

[TheSaint250]

We need to let the North Koreans know that any direct attacks on civilians will result in some sort of retaliation (we kinda did already). Hopefully military bases in Guam are ready for anything.

[TheSaint250]

This board is literally insane right now. North Korean is threatening Americans and you shameless people are still complaining about trump

It never ends

[TheSaint250]

We need to let the North Koreans know that any direct attacks on civilians will result in some sort of retaliation (we kinda did already). Hopefully military bases in Guam are ready for anything.

There are well over 100,000 civilians in Guam, American citizens.

I know that. That's why I said based on Guam should be ready to retaliate if an attack happens.

[TheSaint250]

This board is literally insane right now. North Korean is threatening Americans and you shameless people are still complaining about trump

Yes, North Korea is threatening us and they have been for how many years now? A competent President would disregard their crying wolf and approach the issue through a process of attempted conflict resolution. Instead, Trump has escalated the situation by engaging them in their absurd and childish antics. Now they've escalated their threats to threats of pre-emptive strikes on American territory. That's what people on this board are complaining about in regards to Trump.

These strike threats are nothing new. 2013 was one of the worst that I remember.

Trump just essentially fought fire with fire by telling them to stop the threats.

This will most likely go away as usual

[TheSaint250]

From 2013:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/04/12/world/asia/north-korea-questions.html

You must be logged in to read this quote.

These threats of pre-emptive strikes happened under Obama as well. Nothing new.

[TheSaint250]

An intelligence estimate says that North Korea could have "up to 60" nuclear warheads. To me that says they don't even know for sure how many nukes North Korea has. So how could they all be taken out? And how do we know one won't get "lost" and be sold on the black market if the regime is collapsing?

The point is, this is an extremely dangerous situation and shouldn't be handled by emotions. As the more powerful party, we need to be the adults, and decisively deescalate the situation while strengthening our deterrent capabilities. Limiting military exercises would do a great deal to deescalate while costing nothing in terms of capabilities.

I could see the need for limiting military exercises, but right now they seem necessary. What we'd have to look for is to see if the North Koreans would strike instead of just threaten if the exercises continue. It's tricky politics to limit the exercises or to keep them. Hard choice to make

[TheSaint250]

They wouldn't strike Guam itself, but the statement said they would consider hitting the waters around Guam as a warning. That's also a crucial distinction that's not being made in a lot of the reporting. The point is we're currently in a cycle of escalation and it's something that has to be broken.

Would they strike in international waters or in Guam's waters?

[TheSaint250]

They wouldn't strike Guam itself, but the statement said they would consider hitting the waters around Guam as a warning. That's also a crucial distinction that's not being made in a lot of the reporting. The point is we're currently in a cycle of escalation and it's something that has to be broken.

Would they strike in international waters or in Guam's waters?

Would it matter? Not legally, necessarily, but that's a serious provocation

I was just trying to think about the limits of an attack back against NJ

[TheSaint250]

They wouldn't strike Guam itself, but the statement said they would consider hitting the waters around Guam as a warning. That's also a crucial distinction that's not being made in a lot of the reporting. The point is we're currently in a cycle of escalation and it's something that has to be broken.

Would they strike in international waters or in Guam's waters?

Would it matter? Not legally, necessarily, but that's a serious provocation

I was just trying to think about the limits of an attack back against NJ

Hasnt New Jersey suffered enough!?   /s

Lol sorry about that

*NK

[TheSaint250]

What I'm nervous about is that if war would occur, we would most likely seek to push for a democracy in North Korea or reunification, which is good, but I don't believe North Koreans would be so willing to transition.  Elements of the army would stay loyal, and guerrilla fighters imitating the Vietcong would most likely appear, made up of soldiers, ex-soldiers, and civilians.  There have been years of brainwashing at work, and a simple transition won't be so easy.

First and foremost, I hope I'm wrong about war.

Second, if war occurs and we do seek to change North Korea, I hope there is less resistance than I fear will appear.

[TheSaint250]

So what happens if North Korea attacks Guam with ballistic missiles? And the ideology of communism will not flourish much longer on the face of the planet. Trump is doing exactly what he needs to do IMO by issuing a warning and it means he's serious about it.

enjoy getting drafted little boy

Let's hope he's the first one to go given he's so enthusiastic about it.

I have been saying it and I would be proud to serve my country to defend it at all costs.

Then go ahead and sign up...what are you waiting for cuck?

Not everyone at Atlas loves America enough to put politics aside.

I'm not a big flag-waver, but I'm an American and I pray that our President (whether you like the fact or not) will succeed in his objectives for America in this matter.

This is exactly right. It's a fight to retain our freedoms and democracy. I'll be sure to wait for you to defend us while you cower in fear. And I'd also ask if everyone on this forum could exercise a degree of political tolerance for others' political beliefs. This isn't about our leanings, it's about the safety and security of our nation among others. If you won't protect it, you are inherently un-American.

"If you don't agree with my perception of this situation, you aren't a real American"

Sounds about right

Well, he was saying that if you don't want to protect America, then that's un-American.  

I certainly wouldn't call it pro-America, would you?

[TheSaint250]

So not wanting nuclear war means you hate America?

Literally no one said that.  If we went to war, God forbid, and you don't support America in that war, then that is standing against America.

Seriously people, this isn't a hard concept.

[TheSaint250]

Anyways Trump attempt to look tough has failed, NK has called his bluff so much for those 'balls' he has.

Yeah... I think you've got it. President Trump (Republican) is a bully, and like all bullies,  a coward as well. He's also lazy, much more inclined to stunts than any sort of real work. This is really just him spinning his usual line of BS trying to look like the toughest guy in the room.

While there's a small chance he'll stumble into something massively deadly, that doesn't go up or down based on something as insubstantial as what he says. I'm pretty sure even Kim and his regime know that Trump is full of BS.

Is there any point in mentioning that Trump is a Republican in every post? No one cares, and everyone knows already.

[TheSaint250]

So not wanting nuclear war means you hate America?

Literally no one said that.  If we went to war, God forbid, and you don't support America in that war, then that is standing against America.

Seriously people, this isn't a hard concept.

                                                                                                                                               But literally no one said they'd support North Korea in a war against America either, all they said is that this war shouldn't happen. You then said these people hate america. Seriously, this is the exact same rhetoric that was used in 2003.

I never said anyone did.  I was talking about what Fuzzy Bear said when he said that not supporting America in a war is being anti-America.  Is that not the proper terminology?  In a war against North Korea, we would all be anti-North Korea.  We would be un-North Korean in opposing North Korea's dictatorship and heinous actions.

And I would NEVER EVER say someone falsely hates America. At the end of the day, Americans need to be united.

[TheSaint250]

Can we all agree that it is not one party's fault for North Korea's growing nuclear program? Better action should have been taken for years now.

[TheSaint250]

I never said anyone did.  I was talking about what Fuzzy Bear said when he said that not supporting America in a war is being anti-America.  Is that not the proper terminology?  In a war against North Korea, we would all be anti-North Korea.  We would be un-North Korean in opposing North Korea's dictatorship and heinous actions.

And I would NEVER EVER say someone falsely hates America. At the end of the day, Americans need to be united.

Given a binary choice between America and North Korea, I think it's perfectly possible for Americans to side with America but still chastise the leadership for provoking or even initiating a war that could have (and should have) been avoided.

Yeah I definitely agree here.  It's fine to disagree with leadership and provocations leading to war.

In regards to Iraq, people disagreed with Bush over going in, but no one is hoping that the troops die there.

[TheSaint250]

Supposedly North Korea is thinking about striking Guam, can't imagine they're really that stupid.

I believe that it would just be the waters around Guam