1st Presidential Debate Megathread

[Calthrina950]

I have my television on, and I'm looking forward to the debate! It's going to be strange without an audience, but I'm eager nevertheless. If Biden retains any of how he handled himself against Paul Ryan in 2012, he should be able to blunt Trump's attacks.

[Calthrina950]

I have my television on, and I'm looking forward to the debate! It's going to be strange without an audience, but I'm eager nevertheless. If Biden retains any of how he handled himself against Paul Ryan in 2012, he should be able to blunt Trump's attacks.

Donald Trump is a whole another animal. There is no way he would let Joe treat him like that lmao.

True, but Biden will probably fight back against Trump much more so than Hillary Clinton did. She tried to ignore him as much as possible, and it didn't work out for her. But we'll see what happens.

[Calthrina950]

Judging from the responses by the left and the right….this debate isn’t going to significantly affect the polls.

[Calthrina950]

Judging from the responses by the left and the right….this debate isn’t going to significantly affect the polls.

No no, Calthrina, love: everybody here is judging the debate on a completely non-partisan and objective basis.  

I know (or hope) that you're being sarcastic.

[Calthrina950]

Biden is doing a much better job rebutting Trump's attacks and hitting at him directly than Hillary Clinton did. With someone like Trump, it's necessary for one to be aggressive. He's also specifically highlighting the flaws in Trump's record.

[Calthrina950]

I really liked Chris Wallace moderating the 2016 debate.

Too bad this will probably be the last debate he ever moderates

I'm not sure about this, but Wallace was much better in 2016 then he has been tonight. Trump and Biden constantly interrupting each other has made it a difficult task for him, and his pleas for them to keep within time constraints and to avoid interruptions are falling on deaf ears.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1311153378546905089

Count me as one of them. After tonight, I highly doubt that I am going to watch any of the remaining debates. I may still watch the VP debate though.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/EzraNBC/status/1311135496333135873

If you support Trump, you support explicitly expressly violent white supremacists.

Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

Trump, Aug. 15, 2017: I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.

Racism is evil': Trump condemns white supremacist groups after deadly protest in Charlottesville

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=emb_title&v=0qD47QFFkTU


Joe Biden Describes White Supremacists As Many "Fine People"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=emb_title&v=Nkbj1UgChAY

The right believes that Trump's Charlottesville comments were a "hoax" and the left thinks that they are emblematic of his very "problematic" (to put it mildly) views on racial issues. This is yet another reason why voters are so polarized and so fixed in their support for the two candidates.

[Calthrina950]

I'm glad i don't have to vote. Biden is unworthy of my vote. A bland, boring choice who offers nothing to America and change nothing, except for undo everything Trump did, which is arguably a net win compared to "four more years of Trump who hasn't grown into office". This debate showed that Democrats have learned nothing in the last four years. (Neither did Trump F.Y.I.) Either way, regardless of who wins, America has still a long road ahead of them before being a great country back again. Biden would've lost every election except for this one, where most people just want Trump to get out, instead of Uncle Joe getting elected. It's time to build a leftist opposition against president Biden after the election is over. That's what America needs, a huge leftist opposition movement, incl. Sanders, AOC, Yang, Warren, The Squad and more).

Imagine being on Atlas for the entire last year and still thinking that Biden is offering nothing for America.

This tired leftie talking point is just so damn ignorant.  Biden discussed, or at least tried to discuss, plenty of different policy proposals last night, and if you go to his website there's dozens more.  If you watch any of his speeches or town halls he has plenty that he is offering the country.

To still be sitting here on September 30, 2020 and believing (assuming you're not just trolling) that "Biden offers nothing to America" is just so astonishingly ignorant.  How can you comment on an election every day without having made even the slightest effort to pay attention to what Joe Biden says or stands for?

I don't think you appreciate the extent to which much of the support for Biden is a vote against Donald Trump, and not a vote of confidence in Biden himself, or his policy proposals. I'm not going to say that Biden offers nothing for America-as I've noted elsewhere, he pointed out the holes in Trump's record, and he has made substantive policy proposals on issues such as police brutality and the like. But most voters see this election as either a quest to "stop the radical left" (Trumpists) or as a mission to restore some basic decency to the country (Biden supporters). Progressives and Sanders supporters, on balance, dislike Trump just as much as the rest of the base, but have legitimate concerns about policy that extend back years, and were highlighted during the 2016 election.

[Calthrina950]

I'm glad i don't have to vote. Biden is unworthy of my vote. A bland, boring choice who offers nothing to America and change nothing, except for undo everything Trump did, which is arguably a net win compared to "four more years of Trump who hasn't grown into office". This debate showed that Democrats have learned nothing in the last four years. (Neither did Trump F.Y.I.) Either way, regardless of who wins, America has still a long road ahead of them before being a great country back again. Biden would've lost every election except for this one, where most people just want Trump to get out, instead of Uncle Joe getting elected. It's time to build a leftist opposition against president Biden after the election is over. That's what America needs, a huge leftist opposition movement, incl. Sanders, AOC, Yang, Warren, The Squad and more).

Imagine being on Atlas for the entire last year and still thinking that Biden is offering nothing for America.

This tired leftie talking point is just so damn ignorant.  Biden discussed, or at least tried to discuss, plenty of different policy proposals last night, and if you go to his website there's dozens more.  If you watch any of his speeches or town halls he has plenty that he is offering the country.

To still be sitting here on September 30, 2020 and believing (assuming you're not just trolling) that "Biden offers nothing to America" is just so astonishingly ignorant.  How can you comment on an election every day without having made even the slightest effort to pay attention to what Joe Biden says or stands for?

I don't think you appreciate the extent to which much of the support for Biden is a vote against Donald Trump, and not a vote of confidence in Biden himself, or his policy proposals. I'm not going to say that Biden offers nothing for America-as I've noted elsewhere, he pointed out the holes in Trump's record, and he has made substantive policy proposals on issues such as police brutality and the like. But most voters see this election as either a quest to "stop the radical left" (Trumpists) or as a mission to restore some basic decency to the country (Biden supporters). Progressives and Sanders supporters, on balance, dislike Trump just as much as the rest of the base, but have legitimate concerns about policy that extend back years, and were highlighted during the 2016 election.

Oh that's fine, I absolutely love Joe but I would say that voting against Trump is of much greater consequences to me than voting for Biden.  I suppose that means my support for Joe is mostly a vote "against Trump."

But to try to act like Biden hasn't made any substantive policy proposals, or that he's running on nothing but "I'm not Trump", is just a tired old left-wing talking point that is 100% untrue.  It's 100% false.  And anyone repeating it is either ignorant or maliciously lying to smear Joe.

If you're a progressive and have policy disagreements with Biden, good for you.  That's not what Laki said.  What he said was:

"I'm glad i don't have to vote. Biden is unworthy of my vote. A bland, boring choice who offers nothing to America and change nothing, except for undo everything Trump did, which is arguably a net win compared to "four more years of Trump who hasn't grown into office". This debate showed that Democrats have learned nothing in the last four years. (Neither did Trump F.Y.I.)"

Complete lie.  Absolute, 100%, complete lie.

I'm not a progressive-I'm a moderate independent, as I've said many times on this forum (I've lost track of how many times). And Laki's criticism is precisely the criticism that many progressives and Sanders supporters have of Biden-that he will reverse what Trump has done (which is a good thing), but that his policy proposals aren't ones that will substantively advance policy goals that they consider to be of great importance-such as the implementation of universal healthcare and the elimination of student loan debt.

For many progressives, the Democratic and Republican establishments have both advanced policies that have been harmful to America over the past thirty years-whether it be the crime bill, NAFTA, welfare reform, or whatever else. I don't think it would be wise for Democrats to dismiss all of these criticisms, and fortunately, it seems like they are not doing so. Again, the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, for the most part, wants Trump out, but that doesn't mean that they will refrain from supporting candidates that advance their policy priorities in the future.

[Calthrina950]

If he's not going to advance your particular favorite policies, that's very different from saying he stands for nothing and has no policies other than undoing whatever Trump did.

Example:  Biden has a very comprehensive climate and green energy plan that reaches net-zero emissions by 2050.  This is a policy where he's gone into plenty of detail, both in debates and in speeches.  This policy was a key point of difference between him and Bernie -- they spent 15 minutes talking about in their debate (remember "good, but nowhere near enough"?)  This is a policy goal Biden has worked towards at previous points in his career, both in the Obama administration and as a senator.

I'm sorry that's not the Green New Deal.  I'm sorry Joe Biden doesn't want to completely dismantle the economy and spend $90 Trillion implementing a 28-year-old freshman representative's Mock Congress essay.  I'm sorry that he has his own plan that he came up with himself that achieves a green economy and net-zero carbon emissions much more efficiently and effectively.  But to act like, because he doesn't have your particular plan, that he "has no plan" or that there's "no reason for you to vote for him" or "he doesn't stand for anything" is just a complete lie.

Once again, you missed the points that I was trying to make, and your view that it is "my way or the highway" isn't one that will help mend the divides between moderates and progressives within the Democratic Party. But I think I've said enough here, and I'm not going to drag myself further into this debate.

[Calthrina950]

your view that it is "my way or the highway" isn't one that will help mend the divides between moderates and progressives within the Democratic Party.

Biden has adopted plenty of progressive policy positions, most notably the $15 minimum wage.  You guys just completely ignore those and focus on the ones he hasn't adopted, and then lie lie lie by mischaracterizing that as "my way or the highway."

If Biden were to come out tomorrow and say "I plan on implementing AOC's Green New Deal on my first day in office" the new talking point would be "I can't vote for Biden, he stands for nothing, why won't he adopt M4A, he isn't going to earn progressive votes with this my way or the highway approach."  And so it would continue on, forever and always, the long and winding road of bad-faith rhetoric that ends with everyone just wasting their time as usual.

"You guys"? For the last time, I am a moderate, independent voter in Colorado who is voting for Joe Biden in November and who disapproves of Donald Trump, and who did not vote for him in 2016! I am not a Berniecrat, and I have expressed my dislike of Elizabeth Warren-most recently today, as can be seen here: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=400494.msg7612944#msg7612944). I'm trying to communicate to you why people on the left aren't particularly enthused about Biden, and see this election as a vote for the lesser of two evils-a view, I suspect, which is held by many voters in this country (such as the focus group you maligned). Your tendency to ignore the points other people make, to insult users when they disagree with you, and to view yourself as the arbiter of "all that is right", is an irritating one, and one that thins my patience. This is all I have to say to you.

[Calthrina950]

I work in a 70% Trump county.  I came to work today and every one of my coworkers said the debate left them with bad impressions of both candidates, but mostly Trump. Some said it gave them anxiety.

These are Trump voters, who think he did poorly.

My wife reported a similar reaction from her coworkers, who are almost all MAGA and Qanon believers (also in Forsyth County, which I believe is where you said you worked).

*GASP* GeorgeModerate and TrumpVirus are the same person, confirmed!

And both are former Republicans who can no longer stand the Party they once aligned with-and exemplify the exact kind of voters which Trump has driven out of the Republican Coalition.