Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) in critical condition, 6 others killed in Arizona

[Ban my account ffs!]

I think people like Michele Bachmann and Glenn Beck really need to think twice before blurting out any more of their extremist rhetoric without taking serious steps to discourage the kind of extreme behavior that can lead to tragedies like this.  There are sick people out there who take it very seriously and things like this happen.  That goes for all extremist political personalities out there.  Freedom of speech is a basic tenant of being American... but with free speech comes responsibility for such speech.

To purposely ignore the fact that this was a very politically motivated event by a sick person who subscribed to many of the beliefs that the Tea Party holds would be dangerous and naive.  There are elements of the Tea Party that are dangerous and they need to be stopped.  Of course I'd hope the vast majority of Tea Party people out there could do this themselves.. there's no need for censorship.. just a universal rejection of the kind of extremism that leads to such tragedies.

Of course it's a tragedy regardless of who did it and who was hurt.  But this just helps to confirm my own belief that the fringes of the right wing are dangerous and steps need to be taken to stop this perennial form of domestic terrorism.

And don't respond with "BUT THE LEFT WING EXTREMESISTS SDOES IT TOO LOLULUZ"

The number of political shootings in this nation by right wing extremists has been on the rise for a while now.  

[xavier110]

Sheriff Dupnik, in a press conference, just said that there is reason to believe he was not acting alone.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I agree, gun rights and politics are not completely unassociated with assassination attempts on political figures, although it certainly muddles the discussion on a board like this one!

I suppose that's true. At least very true in this specific thread.

[Joe Biden 2020]

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor has said the House has postponed all legislation for next week, including the symbolic health-care repeal vote.

I'm working on getting a link, but I got it on a tweet text from Politico.

[cinyc]

Look the Tea Party may not have been directly responsible, but with someone like the shooter who most likely has mental problems, rhetoric from people like Palin, Angle, Paul, and others about the second amendment, and freedom of speech, and immigration must have had some effect on the individual to carry out the attack. The Tea Party does have indirect responsibility and shouldn't be acting as if they don't.

Words don't kill people.  Political rhetoric usually doesn't kill people.  The myth that the political rhetoric today is worse than it has ever been is just that - a huge myth.  It was much worse in the 1800s, and has ebbed and flowed through American history.  A sitting vice president actually shot and killed a former Secretary of the Treasury not so long ago in the grand scheme of history.

And if you want to talk about the supposed rhetoric against Giffords raised by the right, you can't ignore that the darling of the left, Kos, put her on his "target list" and put a "bulls eye" on her district.  One poster on his site also claimed Giffords was "dead to me".  Oh no!  That's violent imagery, if taken at face value, which of course, it was never meant to be.  

Trying to ordain a political motive from this particular shooter's actions isn't possible.

[Free Palestine]

I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

It'd clearly be absurd to try and ban guns because of this, that would be going too far, but Arizona has particularly lax gun laws. You don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon there, and I can't imagine the regulations on who is buying the guns are very tight.

[Phony Moderate]

The last time a British Prime Minister was shot dead was nearly 200 years ago.

[Lunar]

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor has said the House has postponed all legislation for next week, including the symbolic health-care repeal vote.

I'm working on getting a link, but I got it on a tweet text from Politico.

http://twitter.com/politico

"Next week's health repeal vote (and all other legislation scheduled for next week) postponed, Cantor's office says in a statement"

[Joe Biden 2020]

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor has said the House has postponed all legislation for next week, including the symbolic health-care repeal vote.

I'm working on getting a link, but I got it on a tweet text from Politico.

http://twitter.com/politico

"Next week's health repeal vote (and all other legislation scheduled for next week) postponed, Cantor's office says in a statement"

Thanks!!!

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Sheriff Dupnik, in a press conference, just said that there is reason to believe he was not acting alone.

Sorry, but I can't resist.

Dupnik is Polish for an "ass person".

[Free Palestine]

I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

It'd clearly be absurd to try and ban guns because of this, that would be going too far, but Arizona has particularly lax gun laws. You don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon there, and I can't imagine the regulations on who is buying the guns are very tight.

Still, it is absurd to try and restrict guns every time some crazy person gets a gun and shoots people.  We don't make it harder to get a driver's license every time someone runs a red light and runs over ten people.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Absolutely terrible that this happened.

[MaxQue]

I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

Well, but does people really need semi-automatic weapons to defend themselves?

I still wonder what is the use of semi-automatic weapons. Please someone, inform me!

[Free Palestine]

I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

Well, but does people really need semi-automatic weapons to defend themselves?

I don't think that's something for the government to decide.

[politicalchick20]

I don't know if this was posted already or not, but a staffer of hers was among those killed.

She's a favorite Congresswoman of mine, and I sincerely hope she pulls through!

[Ban my account ffs!]

I sincerely hope she pulls through as well.  From the sounds of it, there is hope.  The brain is a truly miraculous thing. 

I'm also glad that the house has postponed business in this time of mourning. 

[MaxQue]

I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

Well, but does people really need semi-automatic weapons to defend themselves?

I don't think that's something for the government to decide.

Given than the only use of semi-automatic weapons to me, is making war, yes, it is to government to decide.

A simple weapon is enough for defending yourself and hunting, I think.

[Lief 🗽]

I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

It'd clearly be absurd to try and ban guns because of this, that would be going too far, but Arizona has particularly lax gun laws. You don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon there, and I can't imagine the regulations on who is buying the guns are very tight.

Still, it is absurd to try and restrict guns every time some crazy person gets a gun and shoots people.  We don't make it harder to get a driver's license every time someone runs a red light and runs over ten people.

We do, however, restrict drivers licenses from people who, by driving, would endanger themselves or others. A paranoid schizophrenic, who failed an army psychological exam, given a gun is clearly a threat to himself and others.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Can people reading this thread please not report posts just because they find the political angle of them distasteful and/or stupid? Obviously emotions are running high (and that's fine; normal even) but, you know. I mean, within reason of course. Trolling is trolling.

[Free Palestine]

I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

Well, but does people really need semi-automatic weapons to defend themselves?

I don't think that's something for the government to decide.

Given than the only use of semi-automatic weapons to me, is making war, yes, it is to government to decide.

A simple weapon is enough for defending yourself and hunting, I think.

If the people are going to be banned from having semi-automatic weapons, the government should be as well.

I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

It'd clearly be absurd to try and ban guns because of this, that would be going too far, but Arizona has particularly lax gun laws. You don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon there, and I can't imagine the regulations on who is buying the guns are very tight.

Still, it is absurd to try and restrict guns every time some crazy person gets a gun and shoots people.  We don't make it harder to get a driver's license every time someone runs a red light and runs over ten people.

We do, however, restrict drivers licenses from people who, by driving, would endanger themselves or others. A paranoid schizophrenic, who failed an army psychological exam, given a gun is clearly a threat to himself and others.

Grr...you may have a point there.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

It'd clearly be absurd to try and ban guns because of this, that would be going too far, but Arizona has particularly lax gun laws. You don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon there, and I can't imagine the regulations on who is buying the guns are very tight.

Still, it is absurd to try and restrict guns every time some crazy person gets a gun and shoots people.  We don't make it harder to get a driver's license every time someone runs a red light and runs over ten people.

We do, however, restrict drivers licenses from people who, by driving, would endanger themselves or others. A paranoid schizophrenic, who failed an army psychological exam, given a gun is clearly a threat to himself and others.

Grr...you may have a point there.

Grr? Are you actually debating in good faith or are you trying to maintain a character? You shouldn't react with "grr" to someone who has a good point even in your mind. We're human beings here, not caricatures.

[Free Palestine]

I think it would be a bit insulting to her to use her shooting as an excuse to ban guns, because she is -- apparently -- a supporter of Second Amendment rights.  Plus, it's just generally absurd to take every isolated situation like this and say "oh noes, we should ban guns."  Far more people's lives are saved every day because they defended themselves, or were defended by someone else, with a gun.  Yet we never hear about those situations.

It'd clearly be absurd to try and ban guns because of this, that would be going too far, but Arizona has particularly lax gun laws. You don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon there, and I can't imagine the regulations on who is buying the guns are very tight.

Still, it is absurd to try and restrict guns every time some crazy person gets a gun and shoots people.  We don't make it harder to get a driver's license every time someone runs a red light and runs over ten people.

We do, however, restrict drivers licenses from people who, by driving, would endanger themselves or others. A paranoid schizophrenic, who failed an army psychological exam, given a gun is clearly a threat to himself and others.

Grr...you may have a point there.

Grr? Are you actually debating in good faith or are you trying to maintain a character? You shouldn't react with "grr" to someone who has a good point even in your mind. We're human beings here, not caricatures.

I was just being silly.  As in, "oh sh-t, I'm agreeing with Lief, grrrr."

[CatoMinor]

Apparently McCain has released a statement. I don't think I've ever seen such an empty-worded insincere statement filled with useless references to God and all that stuff.

Dude, have you even read his statement?


And what is with so many people here turning a very tragic event into "omgz teabaggers! bla bla bla 2nd amendment! bla bla!" hackfest? This thread is about Giffords and the others who lost their lives, not about Palin and others being idiots, seriously STFU already.

[Niemeyerite]

Giffords is my favourite congressperson from the west... I wish her the best