France General Discussion

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's easy for Chirac to be seen as a great president now we can see what is Sarkozy as president.

Plus, "c'était mieux avant..." (for translation, in France the sentence is used to express the fact that the situation was always better in the past).

Yes. I personally find it a bit ridiculous how Chirac is overestimated. They just forgot that he was a liar and a corrupt, though Sarkozy is even worse...

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's easy for Chirac to be seen as a great president now we can see what is Sarkozy as president.

Plus, "c'était mieux avant..." (for translation, in France the sentence is used to express the fact that the situation was always better in the past).

Yes. I personally find it a bit ridiculous how Chirac is overestimated. They just forgot that he was a liar and a corrupt, though Sarkozy is even worse...

Ow, he wasn't only that. Plus that was more symptomatic of an epoch in which both sides were involved, you might know PS had its lot of corrupt.

Chirac was kinda awful at home, but concerning foreign policy, he was one of the best if not the best of his time.

Plus, it seems to be a guy of quality. And comparing personalities, values, I prefer Chirac way than Sarkozy.

That's sure. But I refuse to appreciate Chirac ( who had certainly a lot of qualities ) only because he is a fantastic politician compared with Sarko.

[Antonio the Sixth]

All Presidents since 1981 have been epic fails, with some redeeming qualities.

Mitterrand was not a Saint, but he was certainly a great President.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Had Mitterrand cheated in every election, had he did a French watergate, I would still admire him for having been the only french politician who had the courage to abolish death penalty.
But, furthermore, he perfectly incarned the "force tranquille" he promised : able to lead great social reforms, but also resolutely pro-American and pro-European, he was a very cultivated man, and intelligent in every sense of the word.

[Antonio the Sixth]

He was also a crook.

A swindling, but not a crook.

Giscard (whom I don't like for other reasons) led far greater "social" reforms.
Mitterrand, as Giscard and Chirac, was unable to trim health and pensions costs. He recruited many civil servants (I'm one of them...) who are a heavy financial burden now.
As Giscard, he broke down the education system, by dropping emulation and republican elitism.
He practiced the old "Françafrique" policy (as every president).
He had many corrupted friends (Pelat, Grossouvre, who committed suicide inside the walls of Elysée palace).
He supported (with John Major) Serbian regime, which was a real shame on France and UK.

Mitterrand of course had good points: "décentralisation" (devolution of some powers to local councils), a pro-American foreign policy during the Cold War and in the Gulf, a decisive boost of Euroepan integration (with Kohl and Delors).
But they are far overweighted by bad points.

Sorry, I stupidly meant "social" in the french sense of the term, that's "economically progressive". I spoke about 39 hours/week, 5th payd vacantions week, lower retirement age, etc...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, the Assembly adopted the Hadopi internet fascism law yesterday, after the humiliation in the last week or so.

Assembly

UMP 284 in favour, 6 against (Goulard, the official party rebel and Sarkozy-hater; Denis Jacquat; Franck Marlin, anti-NATO; Lionel Tardy, DVD; Christian Vanneste, the homophobe CNI; Michel Zumkeller, liberal), 17 abstaining (Jean-Paul Anciaux; Yves Bur; Olivier Carré; René Couanau, my MP ; Henri Cuq, villepiniste; Lucien Degauchy, quasi-villepiniste; Yannick Favennec, libertarian; François-Michel Gonnot; Jean-Pierre Grand, villepiniste; Christophe Guilloteau; Pierre Lang; Jacques Le Guen, Breton villepiniste; Lionnel Luca, pro-death penalty slavery-lover; Patrice Martin-Lalande; Jean-Frédéric Poisson, FRS/Christian right; Georges Tron, villepiniste; Marie-Jo Zimmermann, villepiniste), 1 non-voting (Accoyer)
Socialist, PRG, MRC 190 against, 1 in favour (Jack Lang, who probably votes with the government more often than Goulard, lolz), 6 abstaining (Montebourg; Jean Michel; 4 Left Rads)
GDR (Commies + Greenies) 24 against
NC 11 in favour, 6 against (Abelin, Dionis du Séjour, Folliot, Lagarde, Préel, Rochebloine), 5 abstaining (Thierry Benoit, de Courson, Hillmeyer, Le Moal, Leteurtre)
NI, MoDem, DLR 7 against (3 MoDem, 2 MPF, 2 DLR)

557 voting, 529 valid votes, majority of 265. 296 in favour, 233 against.

Very disappointing. But in fact, there is most worse laws ( LRU, HSPT ) against which we need to fight.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, the Assembly adopted the Hadopi internet fascism law yesterday, after the humiliation in the last week or so.

I consider it as a bad law, but we can't really say that's fascist.

Personally I root for "License globale", which seems to be, by far, the most interesting regulation we could have here, it could develop a totally new economic model for creation, that could be pretty interesting.

Yes, that's a great idea that government just predend to ignore.

[Antonio the Sixth]

A poll on regional attitudes in Bretagne.

Attachment to Bretagne
Very much attached 65.2%
Relatively attached 29.1%
Attached 94.3%
Relatively unattached 4.4%
Not at all attached 1.1%
Unattached 5.5%

...France
Very much attached 49%
Relatively attached 42.1%
Attached 91.1%
Relatively unattached 6%
Not at all attached 2.8%
Unattached 8.8%

...Europe
Very much attached 28.5%
Relatively attached 38.5%
Attached 67%
Relatively unattached 25.3%
Not at all attached 8.7%
Unattached 34%

Self-description
Breton only 1.5%
More Breton than French 22.5%
French=Breton 50%
More French than Breton 15.4%
French only 9.3%
Others 0.8%

Institutional future (Region, CR)
Region/CR is useless 1.4%
Region/CR should have less power 1.6%
Region/CR has sufficient powers 31.1%
Region/CR should have more devolved powers 51.9%
Region/CR should become an independent nation 4.6%
NSP 9.4%

http://www.agencebretagnepresse.com/pdfs/15280_2.pdf

Good results.

Yeah, I'm only worried by relatively low european attachment, though it isn't very surprising.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Bayrou, you won't get my vote.

I'm not speaking about European elections, since I'm 16. Obviously I'm speaking about the only election who really counts for Bayrou : the 2012 presidential. I'm disappointed, terribly disappointed by his pathetic attacks against Cohn-Bendit. Cohn-Bendit is a great candidate, strongly socially liberal, but also intelligent, moderate and deeply european. He is leading a great and passionating campaign and his good performance in poll don't astonish me. If Monsieur Bayrou wants to be ahead of him, the only thing he has to do is doing a better campaign ( I don't know, for example, speaking about Europe instead of Sarkozy ? ). But no, he chose to attack in the stupidest and ugliest way he could : conspiracy theory and mud-digging personal attacks. I feel really stupid to have believed it could be honest : once again, Hashemite and co were right.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Heard a political debate yesterday on France Inter. To be honest, I have to say that the one I prefered was Mélenchon. I don't parrticularly agree with his political positions, I'm a strong supporter of European Constitution, but it doesn't change that he was really great yesterday. Jean-François Kahn didn't convince me when he defended Bayrou. The most noteworthy was the horrible confusion, with everybody speaking at the same moment during all the debate.

[Antonio the Sixth]

An interessant article about what we discussed about some time ago, Sarkozy's attitude on secularism. See Marianne #634 page 37-39. Always interesting...
By the was, you can also follow the many articles of Charlie Hebdo, particularly those of Agathe André, Caroline Fourest and Fiammetta Venner. Bad news for secularism...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, personally I won't go in this again, I said all what I had to say in the other thread.

But the bumping of this thread makes me thinking to speak about an other topic.

I just took the train today, a regional one, a "ter", between Castres and Toulouse. We're about 9h56 am, the thing is on time, not much people, a beautiful day is coming. Just fine, I go in the train. And what do I see in it? Well, on all the sits, at least all those of my wagon, there was a very nice flier of several pages which incited to you to invest your money in "nexity", the big real estate stuff. Well, I didn't know that the tax of citizens with which is paid the national railroad company was also here to serve the private interests of that company, or that's just a part of the "plan de relance" (our stimulus bill)?? I didn't think to ask the controller how these fliers came on here, if it was the railroad company who did it, or if it was a guy paid by nexity to do that from their own initiative.

Well, anyways, I have been a bit surprised...

I hope it's the second option...

[Antonio the Sixth]

An interessant article about what we discussed about some time ago, Sarkozy's attitude on secularism. See Marianne #634 page 37-39. Always interesting...
By the was, you can also follow the many articles of Charlie Hebdo, particularly those of Agathe André, Caroline Fourest and Fiammetta Venner. Bad news for secularism...

Please just note that these 3 are the climax of absolute laïcism... They are arch-"laïcardes" !

Would you say "bad news for values" just with articles from Valeurs Actuelles and Figaro-Magazine by François d'Orcival, Henry de Lesquen and Philippe de Villiers  ?

Unlikely, to say the least. So, take a more balanced viewpoint on the subject.

Sorry, could you explain me better what "laïcard" exactly means ? I didn't have the impression they were against the practice of religion in the private domain. So they are just secularists.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Le roi a parlé...

Today in Versailles Castle... The President is now able to speak before the parliament, without any possibility of reply. What a republican symbol !

[Antonio the Sixth]

Wow...

Hear this ! Online Sarko-bashing on France Inter...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Frédéric Mitterrand is rumoured to become Minister of Culture tommorrow, replacing the snob Albanel (who reminds me of the snob lady in Les Visiteurs). Mitterrand is the crook's gay nephew who used to do stupid shows for TV5 and is now director of the Villa Medicis in Rome.

Fred supported Jacquouille in 1995, but was an early supporter of the MRG.

Depressing...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Where goes Xavier Bertrand ?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Martine Billard, a Green MP for Paris from the ecosocialist wing of the Greenies, has left the Greens to join the PG. She criticizes the party's shift towards the centre under DC-B and apparently the PG is also a ecologist party now.

Interestingly, a number of ecosocialists from the Greenies seem to be on the verge of following suit. We could see some important members of the Green left moving to the PG and the Greenies re-orienting towards the centre as a result under DC-B's leadership.

Interesting trend... will that hurt or favor the Greens ?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Maybe a small secretary of state for the MPF soon... When I say that it's a Mitterrand-like government...

Horrible... I thought getting rid of Boutin meant finally stopping the social regression...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Maybe a small secretary of state for the MPF soon... When I say that it's a Mitterrand-like government...

Horrible... I thought getting rid of Boutin meant finally stopping the social regression...

Who the hell cares? The MPF is irrelevant and always will be. It's not some Villiers hack who will influence government policy in the State Secretariat for Sewer Systems and Dog Catchers.

I know, but that make me feel very uncomfortable to see these people considered as "normal politicians" and people you can work with, and not as the crazy reactionnaries they are.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I spoke about Villiers then. You're right, Boutin is not crazy, just ridiculously old-fashionned...

[Antonio the Sixth]

I respect many political positions and am ready to debate on economic and social issues, until people doesn't start to want us to get back into the Middle Age, hating anyone that refuses the "moral values", destroying individual freedom and starting crusades against the Evil Muslims. Sorry, but I'm not supposed to respect this sort of political views.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I respect many political positions and am ready to debate on economic and social issues, until people doesn't start to want us to get back into the Middle Age, hating anyone that refuses the "moral values", destroying individual freedom and starting crusades against the Evil Muslims. Sorry, but I'm not supposed to respect this sort of political views.

I never asked you to agree with them, but atleast to recognize that some people hold these views, however demented they may be. Not everybody can fit into sane political ideologically, so let's not try to make it so.

That's exactly what I said. Some people hold these views. I call them "crazy reactionnaries" because I think that's what they are. I didn't say anything more.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I know Christian ideology also has a "social" aspect. But any solidarity principle is not necessarily a Christian one. Christians generally tend to prefer things like charity instead of institutionnal redistribution. And charity is not social justice.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Then, of course, the Christian principles can inspire some people who make some politics, their views views, their way to govern, but they should never act in the name of Christianity, they should never justify their act because of Christianity, because here they would break the basic principle that the Christ wanted to stay out of politics. That's all what I meant.

Moreover, the fact you are a Christian and maybe you think that society should respect "moral values", etc... doesn't allow you to impose this view to all the society, because people is not forced to share these views. That's what means "separation of Church and State".