Kasich: GOP under Trump doesn't resemble the Republican Party

[Medal506]

Trump is more conservative than Kasich so he better represents the GOP than Kasich does.

[TheSaint250]

Oh, grow a pair and announce your primary challenge already!

Then run already.

This seems like a weird reaction, given that it's only 2018.  This isn't a parliamentary system, so Kasich can't force Trump out now, two years before the election.  Trump's term ends in more than two years whether Kasich announces now or six months from now.

It's just annoying to hear him go on and on about this but then just sit back and do nothing.

"Trump is not the GOP."
"So does that mean you're going to run for President, become a large figure who opposes Trump, and push voters in your direction?"
"I have no plans yet."

Does the same logic apply to the Dems who're presumed to be prepping for 2020?  E.g., "Why doesn't Martin O'Malley just announce his candidacy already?"  Or does it only matter for the potential Republican candidates?

Yeah, announcing 2 years early is kinda stupid, I guess (I was trying to fix that comment in the latest post). I just wish he would do something other than just grandstand every once in awhile and then fade away.

[IceSpear]

Trump is more conservative than Kasich so he better represents the GOP than Kasich does.

You really enjoy kicking an Atlas RINO when he’s down, don’t you?

Are Atlas RINOs ever not down?

[Mr. Morden]

The “Trump isn’t the true GOP” talking point always makes me roll my eyes. The party is whatever the base says it is, and they overwhelmingly approve of Trump, so yes, Trump is now the embodiment of the Republican Party. If truly a majority of Republicans really wanted to change the direction of the party, they could, but they clearly are not planning to do so.

Sure, but there are two mutually exclusive explanations for why "Trump is now the embodiment of the Republican Party".  One is that Republican voters support "Trump-ism" because they believe in it independently of whether Trump himself espouses it or not.  In that case, then there's no going back.  The party will remain Trumpy (and at odds with Kasich's vision for the party) even after Trump departs the scene.

The other is that GOP voters will support whatever policies are espoused by whoever is leading the party at the present moment.  Trump happened to win the nomination (with plurality support in a divided field) and became the current standard bearer, but if a different combination of candidates had run last time, then we might have gotten President Rubio or someone else who is Rubio-like.  And in that alternate world, GOP voters like Rubio as much as they like Trump in this one.  If *that's* the case, then Kasich just needs to wait until Trump leaves office, and then potentially some un-Trumpy GOP candidate would become the new standard bearer for the party, and it would be defined by that new person.  It wouldn't be the case that party is at its roots hostile to Kasich.  It would just be that Kasich has a personality conflict with the person who currently happens to occupy the White House and has an (R) by his name.

[Hammy]

Oh, grow a pair and announce your primary challenge already!

Then run already.

This seems like a weird reaction, given that it's only 2018.  This isn't a parliamentary system, so Kasich can't force Trump out now, two years before the election.  Trump's term ends in more than two years whether Kasich announces now or six months from now.

It's just annoying to hear him go on and on about this but then just sit back and do nothing.

"Trump is not the GOP."
"So does that mean you're going to run for President, become a large figure who opposes Trump, and push voters in your direction?"
"I have no plans yet."

Does the same logic apply to the Dems who're presumed to be prepping for 2020?  E.g., "Why doesn't Martin O'Malley just announce his candidacy already?"  Or does it only matter for the potential Republican candidates?

Yeah, announcing 2 years early is kinda stupid, I guess (I was trying to fix that comment in the latest post). I just wish he would do something other than just grandstand every once in awhile and then fade away.

He could still try mounting some sort of sustained campaign against Trumpism, maybe stumping for candidates or trying to get some sort of grassroots support.

He almost seems more interested in keeping his name out there so he doesn't become just another forgotten politician.

[Torrain]

Just run already!

Seriously, if Kasich is so concerned by the state of your party, he should get it over with and primary Trump.
Even if it’s a hopeless task, he’d finally do something concrete to try and impede him. Especially given that presidents who face primary challenges struggle to win relection.

[McGarnagle]

If he really wants to torpedo Trump's chances in 2020, he should not only primary him, but continue running in the general. He and Flake could run together and peel off enough support to make a difference. A Democratic White House might leave a bad taste in his mouth, but he may calculate that it is worth it if it diverts the GOP from going further down the road of Trumpism in the long run. I think he realizes that he probably will never be president at this point, and 2016 could have been his year if Trump had never run. It could be a mixture of revenge and "Look at it this way, I'm doing you guys a favor. You'll see."

[twenty42]

Sorry John, its time to leave, give it up.  The party went crazy and all the sane people have jumped ship. Join us 😊

Problem is the Dems are terrible to and are getting much worse .


If only the Blue Dogs were still there

People like you really need to make up your mind.

If the Democrats are THAT bad, THAT awful, then stop demonizing Trump.  He may be a yucky-yucky, but he believes  in the vast majority of what you believe in.

If they're not, join them.  Or be an independent like me.  I'm a registered Republican, but an independent voter, and I'm certainly not voting for Rick Scott for anything.

Trump did the hard work of actually offering Republicans a choice as to what it meant to be a Republican, and a number of protectionist Perot-voters and their families that had abandoned the party in 1992 (but voted GOP in downballot races) were still there, and now, they were being counted.  The biggest businessman in the race made his cause with them, and not with the Business Roundtable.  And he won.  That indicates to me that guys like Kasich really didn't have an idea as to who was exactly in their party.

I don’t understand why more people don’t see it this way. I cringe at a lot of things Trump says and he is certainly no Reagan, but at the end of the day I agree with more of his political stances than I disagree with.

Even if you’re a Republican who despises Trump personally, I still don’t understand why you’d be happier right now with Clinton in office. We would’ve never gotten the tax cut, the mandate would’ve never been repealed, and we would be on our way to the second Hillary-appointed SCOTUS judge in the less than two years. You could argue that we’d probably win the 2018 midterms under President Clinton, but so what? Having a lock on Congress doesn’t mean much when you continue to keep losing presidential elections...the Democrats of the 80s taught us that.

The fact is that the neocon, Queensbury rules type of Republicanism that Kasich espouses isn’t calibrated to win 270 EV’s in 2010s America. We nominated moderate conservatives who took the high road in 2008 and 2012, and we lost both times. A lot of Republicans don’t seem to appreciate that they have the White House now because Trump did what McCain and Romney couldn’t do, and that he is still 100 times better for their agenda than Obama or Clinton.

[mvd10]

A lot of Trump cultists are cucks and traitors who voted for loads of f**ing Democrats in the past. When Trump loses in a landslide the purge is coming .

(tbh I would have voted Hillary in 2016 but before that it's straight Republican since the 1910s, maybe I would have voted for Johnson in 1964 though, but I'm not sure about that)

[DavidB.]

Perhaps Kasich should consider that there is a reason that Trump won the GOP primary and the presidency. It's Trump's party now. Movement conservatism is dead. Kasich's ideas do not resemble the Republican Party.

[mvd10]

Perhaps Kasich should consider that there is a reason that Trump won the GOP primary and the presidency. It's Trump's party now. Movement conservatism is dead. Kasich's ideas do not resemble the Republican Party.

So dead that Trump has been busting unions, slashing regulations and cutting taxes . Trump's drawbacks are the trade wars and his deranged behaviour, otherwise I'd totally be supporting him (and so would nearly all morally outraged NeverTrumpers or suburban Romney-Clinton voters, they'd gladly jump on the anti-immigration bandwagon if Mitt Romney was leading it). At this stage Trump probably loses in 2020 and by 2024 all NeverTrumpers will be rooting for Tom Cotton even though he'd be running as Trump minus the trade wars and the deranged behaviour.

[Use Your Illusion]

That's right, the Republican Party is whatever Kasich says it is, even if 90% of Republicans voted for Trump.

Because he had the R next to his name on the ballot.

Exactly. That's literally all that matters to most Republican voters.

QFT. You can run while being decried by a fellow senator, accused of various degrees of sexual assault to children and minors enough questionable rhetoric to fill out a book and they'll still vote for you as long as there's an elephant. It just makes Doug Jones' win in Alabama that much more unbelievable

[Fuzzy Bear]

Oh, grow a pair and announce your primary challenge already!

Then run already.

This seems like a weird reaction, given that it's only 2018.  This isn't a parliamentary system, so Kasich can't force Trump out now, two years before the election.  Trump's term ends in more than two years whether Kasich announces now or six months from now.

Yeah, people here mock Delaney for announcing way too early, yet are now saying Kasich should?

Kasich is in a different situation; he is now well-known and a national figure, whereas Delaney is a total unknown.

Kasich is the #NeverTrump guy that has surprised me the most.  I thought he'd be one of the first GOP contenders to endorse Trump.  At a minimum, I thought Kasich would come around and endorse Trump in the last month, even if it was only a "I'm supporting the GOP ticket!" without actually appearing with Trump or campaigning for him.

I don't see Kasich as a Democrat the way I can see Zell Miller as a Republican.  Kasich is well-suited to the GOP, all things considered.  He's not a Democrat at heart, and he really doesn't take any issue positions that reflect him as being significantly out of sync with the GOP.

[SingingAnalyst]

One thing that might happen if Kasich runs as an Independent in 2020, that I haven't seen anyone mention yet, is that in getting, say, 10% of the PV, he might pull more votes from 2016 Clinton voters than 2016 Trump voters (akin to the effect John Anderson had in 1980). This would probably result in Trump winning, and possibly even winning the PV.

[twenty42]

One thing that might happen if Kasich runs as an Independent in 2020, that I haven't seen anyone mention yet, is that in getting, say, 10% of the PV, he might pull more votes from 2016 Clinton voters than 2016 Trump voters (akin to the effect John Anderson had in 1980). This would probably result in Trump winning, and possibly even winning the PV.

I don’t see it happening. As much as libs want to kiss McCain and Kasich’s rear ends when it comes to trashing Trump, they’re voting straight D on Election Day.

[RINO Tom]

Trump is more conservative than Kasich so he better represents the GOP than Kasich does.

You really enjoy kicking an Atlas RINO when he’s down, don’t you?

RINOs >>>>>> IINOs

[IceSpear]

If he really wants to torpedo Trump's chances in 2020, he should not only primary him, but continue running in the general. He and Flake could run together and peel off enough support to make a difference. A Democratic White House might leave a bad taste in his mouth, but he may calculate that it is worth it if it diverts the GOP from going further down the road of Trumpism in the long run. I think he realizes that he probably will never be president at this point, and 2016 could have been his year if Trump had never run. It could be a mixture of revenge and "Look at it this way, I'm doing you guys a favor. You'll see."

Spoiler: More Democrats like John Kasich in 2018 than Republicans do. Check the crosstabs in his Ohio approval rating. The idea of a third party ticket hurting Trump is wishful thinking.

[RINO Tom]

If he really wants to torpedo Trump's chances in 2020, he should not only primary him, but continue running in the general. He and Flake could run together and peel off enough support to make a difference. A Democratic White House might leave a bad taste in his mouth, but he may calculate that it is worth it if it diverts the GOP from going further down the road of Trumpism in the long run. I think he realizes that he probably will never be president at this point, and 2016 could have been his year if Trump had never run. It could be a mixture of revenge and "Look at it this way, I'm doing you guys a favor. You'll see."

Spoiler: More Democrats like John Kasich in 2018 than Republicans do. Check the crosstabs in his Ohio approval rating. The idea of a third party ticket hurting Trump is wishful thinking.

Regardless of what that says about the GOP, those are some mighty dumb Democrats.

[Green Line]

Trump is more conservative than Kasich so he better represents the GOP than Kasich does.

You really enjoy kicking an Atlas RINO when he’s down, don’t you?

RINOs >>>>>> IINOs

But that is you.

[RINO Tom]

Trump is more conservative than Kasich so he better represents the GOP than Kasich does.

You really enjoy kicking an Atlas RINO when he’s down, don’t you?

RINOs >>>>>> IINOs

But that is you.

Many types of IINOs, friend.

[Xing]

Trump is more conservative than Kasich so he better represents the GOP than Kasich does.

You really enjoy kicking an Atlas RINO when he’s down, don’t you?

RINOs >>>>>> IINOs

In the eyes of Republican primary voters, though, RIMTNOs > RINOs. Sorry.

[mvd10]

If he really wants to torpedo Trump's chances in 2020, he should not only primary him, but continue running in the general. He and Flake could run together and peel off enough support to make a difference. A Democratic White House might leave a bad taste in his mouth, but he may calculate that it is worth it if it diverts the GOP from going further down the road of Trumpism in the long run. I think he realizes that he probably will never be president at this point, and 2016 could have been his year if Trump had never run. It could be a mixture of revenge and "Look at it this way, I'm doing you guys a favor. You'll see."

Spoiler: More Democrats like John Kasich in 2018 than Republicans do. Check the crosstabs in his Ohio approval rating. The idea of a third party ticket hurting Trump is wishful thinking.

They like him because he's criticizing Trump. But if he ran he'd probably still mostly win Republicans (or former Republicans actually) since Democrats don't like his policies at all and would vote for their own nominee. Kasich getting 10-15% of people who identify as Republican (or Republicans + R-leaning indies) should pretty much finish Trump off. Unless the Democratic ticket also is hurt by third parties lol.

[JA]

Perhaps Kasich should consider that there is a reason that Trump won the GOP primary and the presidency. It's Trump's party now. Movement conservatism is dead. Kasich's ideas do not resemble the Republican Party.

[Fuzzy Bear]

If he really wants to torpedo Trump's chances in 2020, he should not only primary him, but continue running in the general. He and Flake could run together and peel off enough support to make a difference. A Democratic White House might leave a bad taste in his mouth, but he may calculate that it is worth it if it diverts the GOP from going further down the road of Trumpism in the long run. I think he realizes that he probably will never be president at this point, and 2016 could have been his year if Trump had never run. It could be a mixture of revenge and "Look at it this way, I'm doing you guys a favor. You'll see."

Spoiler: More Democrats like John Kasich in 2018 than Republicans do. Check the crosstabs in his Ohio approval rating. The idea of a third party ticket hurting Trump is wishful thinking.

They like him because he's criticizing Trump. But if he ran he'd probably still mostly win Republicans (or former Republicans actually) since Democrats don't like his policies at all and would vote for their own nominee. Kasich getting 10-15% of people who identify as Republican (or Republicans + R-leaning indies) should pretty much finish Trump off. Unless the Democratic ticket also is hurt by third parties lol.

Dems want Kasich to run a kamikaze mission against Trump, either as a 3rd party candidate or as a primary challenger.  Kasich would not prevail in either of these contests, but he'd aid the Democrats greatly if he did.

I don't see many Democrats yearning for Kasich to switch parties and run as a Democrat for President.  Just what standard Democratic Party positions does Kasich adhere to now, and how many could he credibly adhere to if he made the switch?

Kasich had big dreams about making over the GOP thinking Trump would go down in flames.  Then, horror of horrors, Trump was elected.  I can only imagine how Kasich's "The Future Of The Republican Party" meeting on the Friday after Election Day 2016 went.  Kasich is a Republican, he's a Republican at heart, he's really OK with Republican policy, he just can't stand being preempted by Trump.  He can't recognized a party which has rejected him as throughly as the current GOP has, but it's the same party he's been part of for a while now.

[Mr. Morden]

Dems want Kasich to run a kamikaze mission against Trump, either as a 3rd party candidate or as a primary challenger.  Kasich would not prevail in either of these contests, but he'd aid the Democrats greatly if he did.

I have doubts about that on both counts.  I don't know that a Kasich primary run would actually hurt Trump at all in the GE.  It might actually help him.  Trump benefits from the perception that "the establishment" is out to get him, and that he himself isn't really the establishment (despite the fact that he's the sitting president of the United States).  So if an establishmentarian figure like Kasich is Trump's main primary rival, then that feeds that narrative.  It could actually help him to have Kasich to beat up on in the primaries.  (In contrast, I think if Trump was challenged by another outsider in the primaries, *that* could be damaging to him.)

And as for a 3rd party run by Kasich....I don't know that he'd do any better than Gary Johnson 2016.  And he could very well draw from the Romney-Clinton pool at least as much as he's drawing votes from people who might otherwise vote Trump.