What undermimes marriage more?

[Joe Republic]

Wait, are you still arguing that being gay is a conscious choice?  I thought we cleared that up for you several pages back?

[afleitch]

Sodom & Gomorah

Which is in the Old Testament, not the New. But I'll run with this anyway...

It seems to me that the sins of the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah were the fact that they tended to rape newcomers to their cities, rather than homosexuality...

That's how I interpret it. Again the key word is disputed, the Hebrew- 'yada' - which means to know, to have knowledge of. It doesn't really have much sexual connotation to it.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

If Joe abortion Dr. says unborn Sammy can be killed b/c he's not a life, but he can "decide" (i KNOW its the wrong word) that he's gay--there's a contradiction there.

What is the contradiction?  I am afraid what you are saying is not clear.

If the baby is psychologically deciding that he's gay (a major decision for his life), he's probably considered a life--shouldn't be aborted.  On the othe hand, if he doesn't psychologically decide that , according to the Dr. (not me) he can be aborted.  So any pro-gay abortion Dr. is contradicting himself

[Alcon]

Studies show that being gay is not a choice, that it has no correlation with anything that would suggest it is a choice.

What other Greek interpretations have you seen of that passage?  I have never seen Biblical scholars interpret it as not referring to prostitution.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Inks, you really ought to remember that not everyone is a Christian.  It's vitally important that you remember that, okay?

I know that--but how I believe, everybody was created by God.  I believ I'm right.  and if I'm right, the non-Christians are wrong.  We can't both be right.

[Alcon]

If Joe abortion Dr. says unborn Sammy can be killed b/c he's not a life, but he can "decide" (i KNOW its the wrong word) that he's gay--there's a contradiction there.

What is the contradiction?  I am afraid what you are saying is not clear.

If the baby is psychologically deciding that he's gay (a major decision for his life), he's probably considered a life--shouldn't be aborted.  On the othe hand, if he doesn't psychologically decide that , according to the Dr. (not me) he can be aborted.  So any pro-gay abortion Dr. is contradicting himself

Psychological decisions are all chemical.  Just because something is psychological does not mean it is conscious.  Otherwise, people could choose to be schizophrenic or not.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Sodom & Gomorah

Which is in the Old Testament, not the New. But I'll run with this anyway...

It seems to me that the sins of the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah were the fact that they tended to rape newcomers to their cities, rather than homosexuality...

It was both.  AND I KNOW IT's IN THE OT!

[afleitch]

or homosexual practices during idol worship--but drop it--we won't agree on the greek translation.

Do you actually know anything about the greek translation? (that isn't creamed from google) And yes homosexual practices were condemned during idol worship...as were heterosexual practices elswhere in the NT. It doesn't mean he sees them as wrong, but only wrong in context- ie idol worship and prostitution. Not long term, stable gay relationships.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

If Joe abortion Dr. says unborn Sammy can be killed b/c he's not a life, but he can "decide" (i KNOW its the wrong word) that he's gay--there's a contradiction there.

But Dr Joe can't actually tell if the baby in the womb will be gay or straight- he could take a guess, based on research and throw up a probability. Just the same way he can take a guess at whats it eye colour might be, or if it has his mothers or fathers nose. He may be spot on, he may be way off. You don't know until it is born.

It was an analogy, but Alcon's (i think it was his) article said that Dr.s think babies psychologically decide @ birth.  We don't know thier decision, but "they do" (I disagree w/ this--i'm explaining the article).

[Alcon]

Sodom & Gomorah

Which is in the Old Testament, not the New. But I'll run with this anyway...

It seems to me that the sins of the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah were the fact that they tended to rape newcomers to their cities, rather than homosexuality...

It was both.  AND I KNOW IT's IN THE OT!

Where in even the Old Testament did it say homosexuality was a sin?  You're arguing that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah proves homosexuality was a sin, but not saying how.   And, again, it's not relevant since it's the Old Testament.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Wait, are you still arguing that being gay is a conscious choice?  I thought we cleared that up for you several pages back?

When on earth did I ever say that it's not a conscious choice?

[Alcon]

If Joe abortion Dr. says unborn Sammy can be killed b/c he's not a life, but he can "decide" (i KNOW its the wrong word) that he's gay--there's a contradiction there.

But Dr Joe can't actually tell if the baby in the womb will be gay or straight- he could take a guess, based on research and throw up a probability. Just the same way he can take a guess at whats it eye colour might be, or if it has his mothers or fathers nose. He may be spot on, he may be way off. You don't know until it is born.

It was an analogy, but Alcon's (i think it was his) article said that Dr.s think babies psychologically decide @ birth.  We don't know thier decision, but "they do" (I disagree w/ this--i'm explaining the article).

Dude, again, not everything psychological is decided.  There are also chemical brain functions that occur at birth.  I never, ever said the baby decides.  That's ridiculous!

Wait, are you still arguing that being gay is a conscious choice?  I thought we cleared that up for you several pages back?

When on earth did I ever say that it's not a conscious choice?

That's exactly what Joe is saying.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Sodom & Gomorah

Which is in the Old Testament, not the New. But I'll run with this anyway...

It seems to me that the sins of the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah were the fact that they tended to rape newcomers to their cities, rather than homosexuality...

That's how I interpret it. Again the key word is disputed, the Hebrew- 'yada' - which means to know, to have knowledge of. It doesn't really have much sexual connotation to it.

men prostitutes could be written as gay men (I don't know the word).

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Studies show that being gay is not a choice, that it has no correlation with anything that would suggest it is a choice.

What other Greek interpretations have you seen of that passage?  I have never seen Biblical scholars interpret it as not referring to prostitution.

http://www.newdirection.ca/a_interpret.htm

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" (I Cor 6:9-10, NIV).

People who accept gay theology say that a different word should really be used where this Bible translation says "homosexual offenders." They say that the original Greek word that Paul uses, arsenokoite, refers to male prostitutes, not to two homosexual adults in a committed relationship.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

If Joe abortion Dr. says unborn Sammy can be killed b/c he's not a life, but he can "decide" (i KNOW its the wrong word) that he's gay--there's a contradiction there.

What is the contradiction?  I am afraid what you are saying is not clear.

If the baby is psychologically deciding that he's gay (a major decision for his life), he's probably considered a life--shouldn't be aborted.  On the othe hand, if he doesn't psychologically decide that , according to the Dr. (not me) he can be aborted.  So any pro-gay abortion Dr. is contradicting himself

Psychological decisions are all chemical.  Just because something is psychological does not mean it is conscious.  Otherwise, people could choose to be schizophrenic or not.

Fine.  Bad analogy.  I admit it--now nobody bring it up again--there are too many posts to keep up w/.

[afleitch]

men prostitutes could be written as gay men (I don't know the word).

Not really as they are vastly different terms. The Greeks for example already had a word for a gay man, same sex attraction and so forth. It stemmed from 'homophilia.' They could have used this word if they meant gay men, but they didn't, they used 'arsenokoiten' - meaning male prostitute

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

or homosexual practices during idol worship--but drop it--we won't agree on the greek translation.

Do you actually know anything about the greek translation? (that isn't creamed from google) And yes homosexual practices were condemned during idol worship...as were heterosexual practices elswhere in the NT. It doesn't mean he sees them as wrong, but only wrong in context- ie idol worship and prostitution. Not long term, stable gay relationships.

We discussed this in Bible class, but no, I don't have my personal Greek translation as I'm debating here.

[Joe Republic]

Wait, are you still arguing that being gay is a conscious choice?  I thought we cleared that up for you several pages back?

When on earth did I ever say that it's not a conscious choice?

..... Uh.  Read my post again...

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Sodom & Gomorah

Which is in the Old Testament, not the New. But I'll run with this anyway...

It seems to me that the sins of the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah were the fact that they tended to rape newcomers to their cities, rather than homosexuality...

It was both.  AND I KNOW IT's IN THE OT!

Where in even the Old Testament did it say homosexuality was a sin?  You're arguing that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah proves homosexuality was a sin, but not saying how.   And, again, it's not relevant since it's the Old Testament.

It was destroyed b/c of it's sexual practices (including homosexuality).  I gave you a NT example, and you don't like it.

[Alcon]

Sodom & Gomorah

Which is in the Old Testament, not the New. But I'll run with this anyway...

It seems to me that the sins of the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah were the fact that they tended to rape newcomers to their cities, rather than homosexuality...

That's how I interpret it. Again the key word is disputed, the Hebrew- 'yada' - which means to know, to have knowledge of. It doesn't really have much sexual connotation to it.

men prostitutes could be written as gay men (I don't know the word).

I suggest you read this; it will clear up the misconceptions regarding the Greek translation.

Your New Testament example is flawed, and the language translation that is most commonly accepted by Biblical scholars (even many conservative ones!) does not state that homosexuality is wrong.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

If Joe abortion Dr. says unborn Sammy can be killed b/c he's not a life, but he can "decide" (i KNOW its the wrong word) that he's gay--there's a contradiction there.

But Dr Joe can't actually tell if the baby in the womb will be gay or straight- he could take a guess, based on research and throw up a probability. Just the same way he can take a guess at whats it eye colour might be, or if it has his mothers or fathers nose. He may be spot on, he may be way off. You don't know until it is born.

It was an analogy, but Alcon's (i think it was his) article said that Dr.s think babies psychologically decide @ birth.  We don't know thier decision, but "they do" (I disagree w/ this--i'm explaining the article).

Dude, again, not everything psychological is decided.  There are also chemical brain functions that occur at birth.  I never, ever said the baby decides.  That's ridiculous!

Wait, are you still arguing that being gay is a conscious choice?  I thought we cleared that up for you several pages back?

When on earth did I ever say that it's not a conscious choice?

That's exactly what Joe is saying.

OK, it was a bad analogy--i was wrong there.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

If Joe abortion Dr. says unborn Sammy can be killed b/c he's not a life, but he can "decide" (i KNOW its the wrong word) that he's gay--there's a contradiction there.

But Dr Joe can't actually tell if the baby in the womb will be gay or straight- he could take a guess, based on research and throw up a probability. Just the same way he can take a guess at whats it eye colour might be, or if it has his mothers or fathers nose. He may be spot on, he may be way off. You don't know until it is born.

It was an analogy, but Alcon's (i think it was his) article said that Dr.s think babies psychologically decide @ birth.  We don't know thier decision, but "they do" (I disagree w/ this--i'm explaining the article).

Dude, again, not everything psychological is decided.  There are also chemical brain functions that occur at birth.  I never, ever said the baby decides.  That's ridiculous!

Wait, are you still arguing that being gay is a conscious choice?  I thought we cleared that up for you several pages back?

When on earth did I ever say that it's not a conscious choice?

That's exactly what Joe is saying.

but it's still conscious

[afleitch]

or homosexual practices during idol worship--but drop it--we won't agree on the greek translation.

Do you actually know anything about the greek translation? (that isn't creamed from google) And yes homosexual practices were condemned during idol worship...as were heterosexual practices elswhere in the NT. It doesn't mean he sees them as wrong, but only wrong in context- ie idol worship and prostitution. Not long term, stable gay relationships.

We discussed this in Bible class, but no, I don't have my personal Greek translation as I'm debating here.

In took Theology for six years and we encountered this They are not covering the issues well, or not wanting to delve into controversy.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

men prostitutes could be written as gay men (I don't know the word).

Not really as they are vastly different terms. The Greeks for example already had a word for a gay man, same sex attraction and so forth. It stemmed from 'homophilia.' They could have used this word if they meant gay men, but they didn't, they used 'arsenokoiten' - meaning male prostitute

But 'arsenokoiten' can mean gay men.

[Joe Republic]

Does anybody else here feel like we talking to a brick wall?