IDS Constitutional Change Discussion Thread

[Adam Griffin]

We have to start somewhere.

STARTING PROPOSAL FOR A NEW CONSTITUTION

There are a number of structural changes and elimination of inconsistencies - in current Article I, for instance, the discrepancies between Sections 1 & 10. Lieutenant Governor is restored (seeing as how I can't find anywhere where the office was actually abolished), as well as generic boring names (except for Lulu ). Eastern Time is adopted. Etc, etc.

[Zanas]

I stand on my Prefect instead of Governor, Praetor instead of Magistrate (what's Lulu by the way ?), and Tribune instead of Speaker. If we do have/establish a Lieutenant Governor, make it either a Sub-Prefect or a Vice-Prefect.

[Donerail]

We have to start somewhere.

STARTING PROPOSAL FOR A NEW CONSTITUTION

There are a number of structural changes and elimination of inconsistencies - in current Article I, for instance, the discrepancies between Sections 1 & 10. Lieutenant Governor is restored (seeing as how I can't find anywhere where the office was actually abolished), as well as generic boring names (except for Lulu ). Eastern Time is adopted. Etc, etc.

We abolished the position of Viceroy with Bacon King's amendment to the regional constitution, I believe.

-You drop the current Article I, Clause 3. I like that clause - it's testament to how we've maintained the same Constitution since the beginning.

-I'd prefer the elections to begin whenever and then run for 72 full hours, to keep it standardized and prevent elections of 60-72 hours - I'd also prefer that we resolve tie votes under the procedures in the CESRA (Sections 2-4) rather than go through having a runoff, so the government runs quicker and we don't have to wait on the results of runoff elections and such.

-Why scrap the rights, liberties, and interests bit? And doesn't it make more sense to just give the Governor-Emperor authority to put legislation directly into the legislative queue instead of holding initiative elections?

-I'd like to quantify "several citizens", preferably as a percentage.

-I think PiT has already explained the opposition to special elections.

-In your section 11, we passed Hash's procedures bill and any seat where they don't post for I believe 15 days is auto-vacant.

-Change "three citizens" (Article IV) to a percentage.

-I'd like to add more clauses to Article V (your article VI) to address the use of fixin to, figure, howdy, reckon, skedaddle, tarnation, and yankee.

-Change "or" in your Article VII, Clause 3 to "and".

-Do we need to change Clause 5 in Voting Regulations to be IRV? There also needs to be something under voting regulations (valid ballots) about 'unless there is only one contest on the ballot'.

-Where did our bill of rights go?

[Hash]

I will vote against any constitution or whatever which does not recognize and entrench Aliya Mustafina as Empress for Life.

[Napoleon]

just copy the northeast's and change the relevant titles

[Adam Griffin]

We have to start somewhere.

STARTING PROPOSAL FOR A NEW CONSTITUTION

There are a number of structural changes and elimination of inconsistencies - in current Article I, for instance, the discrepancies between Sections 1 & 10. Lieutenant Governor is restored (seeing as how I can't find anywhere where the office was actually abolished), as well as generic boring names (except for Lulu ). Eastern Time is adopted. Etc, etc.

We abolished the position of Viceroy with Bacon King's amendment to the regional constitution, I believe.

-You drop the current Article I, Clause 3. I like that clause - it's testament to how we've maintained the same Constitution since the beginning. - WE'LL ARGUE ABOUT THIS LATER

-I'd prefer the elections to begin whenever and then run for 72 full hours, to keep it standardized and prevent elections of 60-72 hours - I'd also prefer that we resolve tie votes under the procedures in the CESRA (Sections 2-4) rather than go through having a runoff, so the government runs quicker and we don't have to wait on the results of runoff elections and such.  - WE'LL ARGUE ABOUT THIS LATER

-Why scrap the rights, liberties, and interests bit? And doesn't it make more sense to just give the Governor-Emperor authority to put legislation directly into the legislative queue instead of holding initiative elections? - FLUFF

-I'd like to quantify "several citizens", preferably as a percentage. - DONE

-I think PiT has already explained the opposition to special elections.  - WE'LL ARGUE ABOUT THIS LATER

-In your section 11, we passed Hash's procedures bill and any seat where they don't post for I believe 15 days is auto-vacant. - DONE

-Change "three citizens" (Article IV) to a percentage. - DONE

-I'd like to add more clauses to Article V (your article VI) to address the use of fixin to, figure, howdy, reckon, skedaddle, tarnation, and yankee. - WE'LL ARGUE ABOUT THIS LATER


-Change "or" in your Article VII, Clause 3 to "and". - DONE

-Do we need to change Clause 5 in Voting Regulations to be IRV? There also needs to be something under voting regulations (valid ballots) about 'unless there is only one contest on the ballot'. PROBABLY

-Where did our bill of rights go? BURDENSOME WHEN EDITING; WILL LEAD TO SQUABBLING; RE-ADDED

Though we need to establish some form of order if we're seriously embarking upon this.

[Velasco]

Your initiative is welcome, Griffin

A few questions and remarks:

- Regarding new names for offices, I'm neutral at first. I really don't care if we call our top executive authority Governor or Prefect. I just want to get rid of the current nomenclature so people, please, if you agree with me on that, try to find some consensus.

- What means 'Lulu'? Why that name? I think the bloody 'Viceroy' title was actually abolished in BK's fixer upper amendment.

- The Article 1 Section 3 of our current Constitution states:  "At the time of ratification of this Constitution, an election shall be held for the Office of Emperor. The elected officer shall serve until August, 2004". That's pretty meaningless in 2013, I don't see another thing making sense but its suppression.

[Bacon King]

i'll be making a few proposals, check in here tomorrow

[Dereich]

Your initiative is welcome, Griffin

A few questions and remarks:

- Regarding new names for offices, I'm neutral at first. I really don't care if we call our top executive authority Governor or Prefect. I just want to get rid of the current nomenclature so people, please, if you agree with me on that, try to find some consensus.

- What means 'Lulu'? Why that name? I think the bloody 'Viceroy' title was actually abolished in BK's fixer upper amendment.

- The Article 1 Section 3 of our current Constitution states:  "At the time of ratification of this Constitution, an election shall be held for the Office of Emperor. The elected officer shall serve until August, 2004". That's pretty meaningless in 2013, I don't see another thing making sense but its suppression.

While BaconKing DID get rid of the Viceroy/LG position's roles, there are still a few mentions of the position in the constitution. If we wanted to recreate the position and give it a role now would be the time. Lulu is just a dumb way to say "lieutenant governor" I'm pretty sure

[Associate Justice PiT]

     What role would we give the Viceroy? The position was abolished because it was largely a less efficient and less interesting cousin of the Imperial Speaker. I tried to introduce new statutes that would make Viceroy a better position, but they proved to be altogether ineffective.

[Velasco]

I don't see the utility of recreating a Viceroy/LG position. I'll be waiting for additional proposals.

[Dereich]

I don't see the utility of recreating a Viceroy/LG position. I'll be waiting for additional proposals.

One proposal is to make the Viceroy/LG a member of the legislature, maybe even have them be the default speaker. It'd make the election for Emperor/Governor even more relevant.

[Velasco]

I don't see the utility of recreating a Viceroy/LG position. I'll be waiting for additional proposals.

One proposal is to make the Viceroy/LG a member of the legislature, maybe even have them be the default speaker. It'd make the election for Emperor/Governor even more relevant.

Making the LG member of the Legislature would increase the governmental majority. I'm opposed.

[Velasco]

We have to start somewhere.

STARTING PROPOSAL FOR A NEW CONSTITUTION

There are a number of structural changes and elimination of inconsistencies - in current Article I, for instance, the discrepancies between Sections 1 & 10. Lieutenant Governor is restored (seeing as how I can't find anywhere where the office was actually abolished), as well as generic boring names (except for Lulu ). Eastern Time is adopted. Etc, etc.

I'm really more interested in this question than the outcome of the regional elections, so I'll try to detail what would change of Adam's offers, at least in some points.

Preamble:

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Article I, Section 1:

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Major changes are replacing People's Republic of the South for Republic of the South. I've always advocated for simplification, replacing "Imperila Dominion" for just "the South". I think this option is the most capable to generate some consensus.

Also, I think "Prefect" is not a bad idea, though I don't care if we use the "Governor" title. The first title has resemblances with the old Republican Rome and it's used in the Republic of France. In addition the nature of the title of the top executive authority in the "Republic of the South" must be Republican, obviously.

Another addition is "inside the Republic of Atlasia", this one is a mention to the federal nature of our state and it's loosely inspired on some Catalan proclaim in the 30's.

(I will continue, but feel free to dabate)

[Velasco]

Well, I will have to postpone my plans of going away to the exile, I was thinking in some place of Washington, not far from the Montana border. Now, I'm not sure if I have to call the natives of Washington State "fellow citizens".

I think it would be suitable to make coincide the regional elections with the federal ones, as far as possible. If it's possible to make coincide both elections, I think we should make coincide the hour. In the last election the South's polling booth closed hours later, with regard to the Federal booth. I think a mention might be included in Article I, section 2.

Also, if we want to make coincide Federal and Regional elections, adopting EST instead of CST (Article I, Section 3) would make sense. In other case, I'd advocate for keeping CST.

I'd suppress Article I, Section 11 and all mentions to 'Lulu'   I think we don't need a LG or 'Lulu'. We can't afford more regional offices, given the level of activity.

Before going into Article II, Adam, what do you think about the names suggested by Zanas?

[Donerail]

I think it would be suitable to make coincide the regional elections with the federal ones, as far as possible. If it's possible to make coincide both elections, I think we should make coincide the hour. In the last election the South's polling booth closed hours later, with regard to the Federal booth. I think a mention might be included in Article I, section 2.

It closed an hour after the federal one because of Central time.

[Wisconsin+17]

I'm in favour of SJoyce's amendments. It's overall working well, so I don't see the need for drastic changes.