Why did Putin invade Ukraine? It's not what you think.

[BigSerg]

We all know that the prelude to the invasion of Ukraine started when Bill Clinton mocked Putin when he asked to join NATO in the 1990s, then with the totally blatant coup in 2014 and finally with Biden's Dementia.

[BigSerg]

The reason Putin invaded Ukraine is his desire to prevent the spread of Western democracies in his presumed "sphere of influence" (which doesn't exist anymore, though he still has a cold war mindset). The Western and European model scares him to the bone because he's afraid that a successful Ukraine prompts an uprise in Russia once his own people see that Ukrainians are way better off with a free-market economy and the rule of law. The concern over NATO was always nonsense and it was always obvious. It's just Kremlin shills and other apologists who continue to live in denial. Putin almost certainly is more afraid of the EU than he is of NATO.

Furthermore, he justifies the war with an obscure obsession over history, in which he believes - what has factually been debunked by all serious academics - that Russia, Belarus and Ukraine belong together in a "Greater Russian Empire" or union state. Subsequently he doesn't respect their own sovereignty as he sees himself on a mission to restore said empire.

Challenge: mention these so-called "academics".

Difficulty: Impossible

[BigSerg]

Macron said that Ukraine joining NATO was out of the question before the invasion began.


And even if it was about NATO, why would Putin launch a full scale invasion of a another country ?

If this was the US, OP would be the first one to condemn it, but somehow Russian imperialism is good.

Are you serious, why believe a puppet like Macron when his own predecessor openly stated that the Minsk agreements were theater and that they never intended to carry them out? Give it some thought

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

[BigSerg]

The reason Putin invaded Ukraine is his desire to prevent the spread of Western democracies in his presumed "sphere of influence" (which doesn't exist anymore, though he still has a cold war mindset). The Western and European model scares him to the bone because he's afraid that a successful Ukraine prompts an uprise in Russia once his own people see that Ukrainians are way better off with a free-market economy and the rule of law. The concern over NATO was always nonsense and it was always obvious. It's just Kremlin shills and other apologists who continue to live in denial. Putin almost certainly is more afraid of the EU than he is of NATO.

Furthermore, he justifies the war with an obscure obsession over history, in which he believes - what has factually been debunked by all serious academics - that Russia, Belarus and Ukraine belong together in a "Greater Russian Empire" or union state. Subsequently he doesn't respect their own sovereignty as he sees himself on a mission to restore said empire.

Do you have information to back this up? In the article I posted, the author took us through step by step events as they happened, and scoured for evidence into the reasoning behind the actions of all the players in the scenario. So I ask you, where did your information come from and do you have evidence to back it up?

Numerous publications and interviews from established history professors on Eastern Europe, mainly from Germany. Like this report on DW or this Eastern Europe history professor. It's in German, but I'm sure with some research you find additional material in English like this: NATO Enlargement didn't cause Russia's aggression or One. More. Time. It’s not about NATO. Heck, even Prigozhin admitted the war wasn't about NATO.

Furthermore, it's just common-sense. NATO's forces in Europe are far, far too small to pose any serious threat to Russia at all. In the Baltics, there were like 5k soldiers before the wars, which is nothing against the size of Russia's military. There was also the NATO-Russia founding act established in 1997 to launch a closer military cooperation and build up mutal trust. NATO never broke any rule of the charta, always invited Russian representatives to witness any NATO exercise to emphasize it wasn't an alliance against Russia. Not to mention the actual war in Ukraine in 2014 didn't even start because Kyiv was close to join the alliance. Merkel and Sarkozy in 2008 vetoed Bush's attempt to invite Ukraine, citing Russian concerns. The Maidan began after pro-Russia president Yanukovich withdrew from an agreement between Ukraine and the EU. Neither NATO nor the US had anything to do with it.

Yeah, hahaha.

[BigSerg]

If Russia didn't want Ukraine choosing to ally with NATO countries, they should have been a better friend to Ukraine over the last 3 decades. (3 centuries arguably.)

Like, if the United States bungled its relationship with Canada so badly that Canada decided to become a close friend and ally of China, no we wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't come close to justifying us launching an invasion to annex Canada.

Mexico has literally been threatened countless times with invasion. Cuba was literally pathetically invaded. Don't be a hypocrite and learn some history. The United States has participated in countless coups and political assassinations throughout Latin America over the past 100 years. Seriously, have you thought this through before writing this?

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

That's all you know how to do, shut people up for questioning your delusional views. Just three weeks ago, the UN again ruled out that there is evidence of genocide in Ukraine. I'm just asking you to tell me a single country, a single organization that says there is genocide in Ukraine. You don't have it, because they don't exist.

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

Have you talked to people from Crimea, to people from Donbass? Please, you show yourselves for what you really are. Ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about the situation in Ukraine. You deny any kind of evidence, you deny history, you deny anything that doesn't fit your hypocritical narrative. Let's do one thing, let's go to Ukraine, I have friends who would give you free accommodation in Donbass, live with the people and in a month come back. do you dare?

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

[BigSerg]

Russia was the one actually shelling the Donbas for 8 years as seen by Russia’s own propaganda that highlighted how safe the Russia controlled parts of the Donbas was but don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative Serg

There are people here with this ridiculous and out of touch with reality thinking. I have debated with countless pro-Ukrainians on Twitter, none of them are able to tell me something as delusional as this. But, surprisingly, this is what they believe here.

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

Have you talked to people from Crimea, to people from Donbass? Please, you show yourselves for what you really are. Ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about the situation in Ukraine. You deny any kind of evidence, you deny history, you deny anything that doesn't fit your hypocritical narrative. Let's do one thing, let's go to Ukraine, I have friends who would give you free accommodation in Donbass, live with the people and in a month come back. do you dare?

You're actually trying to equivocate about a brutal invasion 💀 You are the biggest embarrassment on the site right now. I felt bad about what people were saying about you but you're more than happy to see Ukrainians die for your dumb narrative. Delete your account. Dipsh**t.

So, you're not going to Ukraine? Let's up the ante, we'll both go, I'll pay for the whole trip along with a week's stay. I'm serious, I'm not kidding.

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

Have you talked to people from Crimea, to people from Donbass? Please, you show yourselves for what you really are. Ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about the situation in Ukraine. You deny any kind of evidence, you deny history, you deny anything that doesn't fit your hypocritical narrative. Let's do one thing, let's go to Ukraine, I have friends who would give you free accommodation in Donbass, live with the people and in a month come back. do you dare?

People from Crimea? Which people?

The Tatars who attempted an ill-fated counter coup against the Russian astroturfed coup d'tat in 2014 chanting "Allahu Akbar" and "Slava Ukraini" to stop the return of the imperialists who had deported and brutalized them?

Or the decadent Russian tourist population that thinks liking the beach makes them immune to the consequences of their actions.

Everything else you are saying is completely fictitious but I don't care enough to reply I just hope everyone else knows it is made up.

I am referring to the Russian population of Crimea, which has been a majority in the territory since 1860. It's all made up, but none of you want to go and verify it. I am literally offering you free accommodation, pay for a travel stay, but you do nothing but insult me and call me a liar.

[BigSerg]

Guys did you know Serg knows people from the Donbas that are totally not made up and validate all here fascist pro Russia takes?

Tell me the truth, did you even know that Crimea was ceded to Ukraine without any opinion of its population in 1954?

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

What about you?
Have you ever considered your small group of friends online are not representative of the population of Eastern Ukraine?

Again, tell me where are the massive guerrillas against Russia, tell me why the pro-Russian parties were still winning before their illegalization. Unlike me, you have considered, just for a moment, that everything you believe is a lie?

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

What about you?
Have you ever considered your small group of friends online are not representative of the population of Eastern Ukraine?

Again, tell me where are the massive guerrillas against Russia, tell me why the pro-Russian parties were still winning before their illegalization. Unlike me, you have considered, just for a moment, that everything you believe is a lie?

I can’t comment on guerilla activity, truth be told the environment is hazy and while we have anecdotes of guerilla activity, most of it is kept on the low and even getting accurate coverage behind the frontline is near impossible. I won’t be feeding into the unverified rumors that surround war watching communities.

As for Pro-Russian parties, pretty simple honestly. There still is a Russophone identity and these parties were the standard bearers of that identity. That does not mean at all such regions actively want to be annexed by Russia, rather they just want to keep speaking Russian (or did until Putin bombed their towns)

There was this level of insanity with the Iraq war and with Vietnam before it, then everybody realized they were fighting for nothing. You have to analyze things. Also, you can look up common Russian names, look them up on Twitter and see the accounts of people from Donbass. I mean accounts that don't even talk about the war. So talk to them and forge your own opinion, away from propaganda.

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

What about you?
Have you ever considered your small group of friends online are not representative of the population of Eastern Ukraine?

Again, tell me where are the massive guerrillas against Russia, tell me why the pro-Russian parties were still winning before their illegalization. Unlike me, you have considered, just for a moment, that everything you believe is a lie?

I can’t comment on guerilla activity, truth be told the environment is hazy and while we have anecdotes of guerilla activity, most of it is kept on the low and even getting accurate coverage behind the frontline is near impossible. I won’t be feeding into the unverified rumors that surround war watching communities.

As for Pro-Russian parties, pretty simple honestly. There still is a Russophone identity and these parties were the standard bearers of that identity. That does not mean at all such regions actively want to be annexed by Russia, rather they just want to keep speaking Russian (or did until Putin bombed their towns)

There was this level of insanity with the Iraq war and with Vietnam before it, then everybody realized they were fighting for nothing. You have to analyze things. Also, you can look up common Russian names, look them up on Twitter and see the accounts of people from Donbass. I mean accounts that don't even talk about the war. So talk to them and forge your own opinion, away from propaganda.

I do not think partisans would exactly be willing to share information on guerilla activities with some random guy on Twitter…

I'm not talking about partisans, I'm talking about normal people. Despite what most believe, there are many people who are moving on or at least trying to get on with their lives. But do it with an open mind and not with the "they are all Russian propagandists" mentality. I will stop posting here, because no matter what I say, the obvious trolls will continue to insult me no matter what.

If anyone is really interested in knowing my views, they can send me a private message. I will gladly, without insulting, without wishing death to anyone, tell them what I think.