Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine vetoes bill that would’ve banned gender-affirming care for trans youth

[2016]

DeWine's Decision is just one more reason to vote against Nikki "Fraud" Haley. The Republican Uniparty of DeWine, Haley, Ryan, Romney, McCarthy, etc. will never get into Power ever again.

Both, DeWine and Haley are too much beholden to Wall Street Donors. DeSantis told that freak Robert Bigelow that he can't be bought by Special Interests.

[Dan the Roman]

I say if a politician wants to vote on legislation affecting trans kids, they should have the decency to walk into a room full of them and listen - not talk, but listen, and it seems that this governor did that.  What a shame that others have not.

I predict that one day all of the bans on hormone blockers will be lifted.  That is the most important part because it allows trans teenagers to stop puberty that they will reverse.  With proper counseling and emotional support, they can begin the hormones if they so choose.  Or they can choose not to go on estrogen or testosterone.  The hormone blockers at least delay time.  The last thing a 14-year-old boy wants is to go through female puberty and vice versa.

Ohio is next door to PA, which is my old home state, so this is not a million miles away - this is a very important issue for all trans voters.  Yes we are 1% or less of the country but we shall have the right to our own liberties, especially the liberties of the youngest generations of trans people because they actually have a chance to live much fuller, much happier lives than the older generations.

A minor can't even get a tattoo, but you want them to be able to get on puberty blockers???

The whole point of puberty blockers is to prevent a trans teenager from going through a puberty that is not in accordance with how they live.  It has to be done when they are a teenager.

This is done to let them go through puberty the way all the other kids do - during the time it's supposed to happen.

This "only until 18" thing doesn't work with puberty because puberty occurs before the age of 18.  Nobody wants to go through puberty when they are 30 years old, that's not what anyone wants.

And I would not object to allowing a 15-year-old to get a small tattoo.  If that was my child that asked for it, I would just say, let's wait a few months and if you really want one, get something tiny like a heart or something.

If I had a child that was trans, I'd most certainly know before they were even close to being a teenager, and I'd let them live how they wanted, and that's the way it is with many families today.

The trans population is as much as it is Kindergarten-age as any other age... these are kids who are already living their lives, and of course there's no need for anything at that age - they can be boys and girls, and just be treated like the other kids.

To paraphrase Lincoln, the differences on this issue are quite simple. You believe trans teenagers and preteens exist and everything operates from that premise. Hence any drawbacks are the hypothetical harm of non trans individuals erroneously being misidentified versus the real harms to Trans youth.

Others do not believe that anyone is Trans. They accept some people feel mentally uncomfortable in their biological body, but they do not believe anyone can actually change their biological gender and therefore at most transition is an effort to treat a mental illness through indulgence. And as the consequence is to worsen the "condition" = successful transition confirms the patient in their beliefs, failed leads to worse mental health and suicide, there is no "successful" treatment through transition.

Part of the issue with coverage in mainstream liberal outlets like the NYT is that the authors are lying about their positions, often to themselves. When they say they are having doubts in the science or on the treatments for minors, they are really saying they are having doubts about the existence of trans individuals full stop. But to admit that to themselves would be terrifying and hence they hide behind ambiguity.

One of two things will happen. Either the first belief will prevail or the second group will pull off the mask, engage in battle and triumph

[Thank you for being a friend...]

I say if a politician wants to vote on legislation affecting trans kids, they should have the decency to walk into a room full of them and listen - not talk, but listen, and it seems that this governor did that.  What a shame that others have not.

I predict that one day all of the bans on hormone blockers will be lifted.  That is the most important part because it allows trans teenagers to stop puberty that they will reverse.  With proper counseling and emotional support, they can begin the hormones if they so choose.  Or they can choose not to go on estrogen or testosterone.  The hormone blockers at least delay time.  The last thing a 14-year-old boy wants is to go through female puberty and vice versa.

Ohio is next door to PA, which is my old home state, so this is not a million miles away - this is a very important issue for all trans voters.  Yes we are 1% or less of the country but we shall have the right to our own liberties, especially the liberties of the youngest generations of trans people because they actually have a chance to live much fuller, much happier lives than the older generations.

A minor can't even get a tattoo, but you want them to be able to get on puberty blockers???

The whole point of puberty blockers is to prevent a trans teenager from going through a puberty that is not in accordance with how they live.  It has to be done when they are a teenager.

This is done to let them go through puberty the way all the other kids do - during the time it's supposed to happen.

This "only until 18" thing doesn't work with puberty because puberty occurs before the age of 18.  Nobody wants to go through puberty when they are 30 years old, that's not what anyone wants.

And I would not object to allowing a 15-year-old to get a small tattoo.  If that was my child that asked for it, I would just say, let's wait a few months and if you really want one, get something tiny like a heart or something.

If I had a child that was trans, I'd most certainly know before they were even close to being a teenager, and I'd let them live how they wanted, and that's the way it is with many families today.

The trans population is as much as it is Kindergarten-age as any other age... these are kids who are already living their lives, and of course there's no need for anything at that age - they can be boys and girls, and just be treated like the other kids.

To paraphrase Lincoln, the differences on this issue are quite simple. You believe trans teenagers and preteens exist and everything operates from that premise. Hence any drawbacks are the hypothetical harm of non trans individuals erroneously being misidentified versus the real harms to Trans youth.

Others do not believe that anyone is Trans. They accept some people feel mentally uncomfortable in their biological body, but they do not believe anyone can actually change their biological gender and therefore at most transition is an effort to treat a mental illness through indulgence. And as the consequence is to worsen the "condition" = successful transition confirms the patient in their beliefs, failed leads to worse mental health and suicide, there is no "successful" treatment through transition.

Part of the issue with coverage in mainstream liberal outlets like the NYT is that the authors are lying about their positions, often to themselves. When they say they are having doubts in the science or on the treatments for minors, they are really saying they are having doubts about the existence of trans individuals full stop. But to admit that to themselves would be terrifying and hence they hide behind ambiguity.

One of two things will happen. Either the first belief will prevail or the second group will pull off the mask, engage in battle and triumph

It's my belief that it has to do with the brain - not because it's mentally ill but because the brain is of another sex.

It seems extremely plausible to me that a small minority of babies are born with the brains of the opposite sex.

That is the basis of my belief.  Thus, a trans boy is already a boy the day he is born.  A trans girl is already a girl the day they are born, and that is because the brain is the most important part of the person.

A baby born with both genitalia or none could be assigned a sex at birth.  But what is the brain sex, and how do you know?

So I believe that is it possible for a woman to live her entire life in a man's body - and for a man to live his entire life in a woman's body. 

Transitioning does not have to occur.  I am a 38-year-old woman who is living inside a man's body.  I know what my sex is, but I am not on estrogen.  I've never had an operation to change anything.  This is the way trans people have lived for most of human history...

I didn't wake up one morning and say, "Gee I feel like a woman."  I've felt this way since I was four years old.  It occurs very early in childhood.  It was not because of an "overbearing mother" or a "distant father" or any of that garbage.  I had both a feminine mother and a masculine father that were wonderful parents... but I knew when I was 4... and I'm 38 now and I still know.  It's not going away.

It's something many of us know very early on, usually around the age of 4 or 5.  It's actually a very clear (to the child) understanding and you don't need any words such as "transgender" or anything to know what it is.  It's very apparent.

The brain holds the key to understanding all of these LGBTQ issues because that's where it is that makes people that way.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Great! Another DeWine moment of sanity.

Now do the same on abortion rights!

[Persephone]

Awesome, this is a private decision for a parent, a child, and a licensed medical professional to make. I thought Republicans wanted the government to stay out of healthcare? What about all that talk of parental rights and choice? Guess it doesn't matter if they have a chance to enforce their radical ideas. Good on DeWine for listening to parents and trans kids instead of the very loud minority.

The whole transgender thing is already tough enough for families, the last thing we need is some fool from the government in the doctor's office when they have no business being there.

I say if a politician wants to vote on legislation affecting trans kids, they should have the decency to walk into a room full of them and listen - not talk, but listen, and it seems that this governor did that.  What a shame that others have not.

I predict that one day all of the bans on hormone blockers will be lifted.  That is the most important part because it allows trans teenagers to stop puberty that they will reverse.  With proper counseling and emotional support, they can begin the hormones if they so choose.  Or they can choose not to go on estrogen or testosterone.  The hormone blockers at least delay time.  The last thing a 14-year-old boy wants is to go through female puberty and vice versa.

These bans probably have a shelf life of about twenty years. Eventually all these kids are gonna grow up and transition anyway. We'll soon learn the only thing these laws did was hurt people and make their already tough lives even harder.

 


Perhaps, but also a lot a future GOP adminstration can do to de facto nationally eliminate the procedures for everyone.

1. Schedule estrogen like testosterone is
2. Liability reform to remove it - a whole lot is riding on Obama care guidelines
3. Effectively ban transition within the entire federal service - an EO can mandate using someone's birth gender

DeWine is a vanishing breed. Among younger Rs who will staff the next Adminstration the ideal number of transitions is 0

"Eliminating all transitions" is an impossible task which would require a draconian police state and more government intervention in healthcare than even the most left wing Democrats have ever dreamed of. People have been transitioning since the 1920s. What changed, like in the case of gay people, is people's attitudes. The Grand Anti Trans Project you're envisioning would do nothing to reverse the social changes of the past few decades and would in many ways accelerate them.

Again, within a decade or two it'd be reversed. Because the policies you're talking about would not work and would have negative outcomes.

[JGibson]

Freedom move by DeWine.

[Pres Mike]

I say if a politician wants to vote on legislation affecting trans kids, they should have the decency to walk into a room full of them and listen - not talk, but listen, and it seems that this governor did that.  What a shame that others have not.

I predict that one day all of the bans on hormone blockers will be lifted.  That is the most important part because it allows trans teenagers to stop puberty that they will reverse.  With proper counseling and emotional support, they can begin the hormones if they so choose.  Or they can choose not to go on estrogen or testosterone.  The hormone blockers at least delay time.  The last thing a 14-year-old boy wants is to go through female puberty and vice versa.

Ohio is next door to PA, which is my old home state, so this is not a million miles away - this is a very important issue for all trans voters.  Yes we are 1% or less of the country but we shall have the right to our own liberties, especially the liberties of the youngest generations of trans people because they actually have a chance to live much fuller, much happier lives than the older generations.

A minor can't even get a tattoo, but you want them to be able to get on puberty blockers???

The whole point of puberty blockers is to prevent a trans teenager from going through a puberty that is not in accordance with how they live.  It has to be done when they are a teenager.

This is done to let them go through puberty the way all the other kids do - during the time it's supposed to happen.

This "only until 18" thing doesn't work with puberty because puberty occurs before the age of 18.  Nobody wants to go through puberty when they are 30 years old, that's not what anyone wants.

And I would not object to allowing a 15-year-old to get a small tattoo.  If that was my child that asked for it, I would just say, let's wait a few months and if you really want one, get something tiny like a heart or something.

If I had a child that was trans, I'd most certainly know before they were even close to being a teenager, and I'd let them live how they wanted, and that's the way it is with many families today.

The trans population is as much as it is Kindergarten-age as any other age... these are kids who are already living their lives, and of course there's no need for anything at that age - they can be boys and girls, and just be treated like the other kids.

I don't think teenagers should be able to take puberty blockers or be able to transition at all.

Why? I do not think any teenager can make such a life altering choice.

[Thank you for being a friend...]

I say if a politician wants to vote on legislation affecting trans kids, they should have the decency to walk into a room full of them and listen - not talk, but listen, and it seems that this governor did that.  What a shame that others have not.

I predict that one day all of the bans on hormone blockers will be lifted.  That is the most important part because it allows trans teenagers to stop puberty that they will reverse.  With proper counseling and emotional support, they can begin the hormones if they so choose.  Or they can choose not to go on estrogen or testosterone.  The hormone blockers at least delay time.  The last thing a 14-year-old boy wants is to go through female puberty and vice versa.

Ohio is next door to PA, which is my old home state, so this is not a million miles away - this is a very important issue for all trans voters.  Yes we are 1% or less of the country but we shall have the right to our own liberties, especially the liberties of the youngest generations of trans people because they actually have a chance to live much fuller, much happier lives than the older generations.

A minor can't even get a tattoo, but you want them to be able to get on puberty blockers???

The whole point of puberty blockers is to prevent a trans teenager from going through a puberty that is not in accordance with how they live.  It has to be done when they are a teenager.

This is done to let them go through puberty the way all the other kids do - during the time it's supposed to happen.

This "only until 18" thing doesn't work with puberty because puberty occurs before the age of 18.  Nobody wants to go through puberty when they are 30 years old, that's not what anyone wants.

And I would not object to allowing a 15-year-old to get a small tattoo.  If that was my child that asked for it, I would just say, let's wait a few months and if you really want one, get something tiny like a heart or something.

If I had a child that was trans, I'd most certainly know before they were even close to being a teenager, and I'd let them live how they wanted, and that's the way it is with many families today.

The trans population is as much as it is Kindergarten-age as any other age... these are kids who are already living their lives, and of course there's no need for anything at that age - they can be boys and girls, and just be treated like the other kids.

I don't think teenagers should be able to take puberty blockers or be able to transition at all.

Why? I do not think any teenager can make such a life altering choice.

The lives are already being lived.  There isn't a change in many of the cases.  They're already living as boys or girls.  

I don't think people understand that times have changed.  Caitlyn Jenner is the old generation - they had no choice but to live their lives the way they did, and their mental states suffered greatly because of it.

The future of this issue is about protecting trans kids and kids meaning kids, not even teenagers.

The anti-trans side here is living in the world of 1990 when a grown man like Bruce decides to "become a woman" (all of a sudden).  Conjuring up the image of a man in a dress, the "transsexual" on Jerry Springer.

In the world of 2024, it's the 9 year old child going to school.

It'll take time, but eventually people will realize that this is about fetal development.  I truly believe in learning more about the science behind it.  The brain is exposed to chemicals while it is developing in the womb - hormonal elements, and possibly genetic causes...

this is a much more complex issue but it has been sensationalized by the media for decades.

But there is no choice, because no one would choose it.  Nobody would choose to be trans... why, when you don't have to be?

[Badger]

So he’s To the left of Rishi Sunak on this .

Why do you constantly make such utterly irrelevant points about whether or not an American politician is allegedly to the left or right on some issue of a politician from Another Western country, as if it matters in the slightest?

[Farmlands]

The future of this issue is about protecting trans kids and kids meaning kids, not even teenagers.

The anti-trans side here is living in the world of 1990 when a grown man like Bruce decides to "become a woman" (all of a sudden).  Conjuring up the image of a man in a dress, the "transsexual" on Jerry Springer.

In the world of 2024, it's the 9 year old child going to school.

this is a much more complex issue but it has been sensationalized by the media for decades.

But there is no choice, because no one would choose it.  Nobody would choose to be trans... why, when you don't have to be?

No, we're living in the world where detransitioners exist and children are being convinced by a few relatives and the internet that they're transgender because their interests are not a hundred percent stereotypical. Which is something some of us are against. The science still isn't even close to done on this subject either.

[7,052,770]

No, we're living in the world where detransitioners exist and children are being convinced by a few relatives and the internet that they're transgender because their interests are not a hundred percent stereotypical. Which is something some of us are against. The science still isn't even close to done on this subject either.

How many people are actually making that claim? Like a couple? The vast, vast majority of people who transition as teens, as well as the parents, say that it was a positive thing that they did, higher than any other medical procedure out there.

Ultimately, this private medical decision should be in the hands of families and doctors - experienced, competent professionals who can screen out cases like the one you're referring to - and not in the hands of politicians who don't really think "transgender" is a real thing in the first place.

[Ferguson97]

No, we're living in the world where detransitioners exist and children are being convinced by a few relatives and the internet that they're transgender because their interests are not a hundred percent stereotypical. Which is something some of us are against. The science still isn't even close to done on this subject either.

Conservatives have a remarkable talent for describing the exact opposite of what reality is. It’s truly something else.

[wnwnwn]

Why are people here so supportive of gender affirming care for minors?

It seems that a majority of americans think otherwise:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3991685-majority-of-americans-oppose-gender-affirming-care-for-minors-trans-women-participating-in-sports-poll/#:~:text=A%20Washington%20Post%2DKFF%20poll,kids%20ages%2015%20to%2017

Call me a reactionary, but to me those decisions should be made after turning 18. I feel that supporting gender affirming care for minors gives fuel to right wing conspirancy nonsense and hurts a movement that should better focus on fighting stereotypes and prejudice.

[DrScholl]

The future of this issue is about protecting trans kids and kids meaning kids, not even teenagers.

The anti-trans side here is living in the world of 1990 when a grown man like Bruce decides to "become a woman" (all of a sudden).  Conjuring up the image of a man in a dress, the "transsexual" on Jerry Springer.

In the world of 2024, it's the 9 year old child going to school.

this is a much more complex issue but it has been sensationalized by the media for decades.

But there is no choice, because no one would choose it.  Nobody would choose to be trans... why, when you don't have to be?

No, we're living in the world where detransitioners exist and children are being convinced by a few relatives and the internet that they're transgender because their interests are not a hundred percent stereotypical. Which is something some of us are against. The science still isn't even close to done on this subject either.

Conservative fears are always based on the most made up, fraudulent crap that comes from internet personalities looking to earn money for clicks. Who exactly is being forced to believe they are transgender? Transgender people come to that conclusion on their own and have to deal with everything that comes with it.

But don't let truth get in the way of your persecution complex!

[Mercenary]

While listening to multiple experts and looking and different sides is indeed the correct way to approach things, he reached the wrong conclusion. Government normally shouldn't interfere with parental choice but there is call for intervention to prevent child abuse. Additionally government is already involved when kids are being brainwashed in schools to think they are the opposite sex just because they don't follow some "gender" norm.

In general I would give credit to someone for breaking from standard party doctrine, but giving into cult is not a positive.

[Sirius_]

I think we need a reminder that the actual regret rate of transitioning is tiny and most detransitioners do so out of social pressure. We do not need to make policy to protect such a minuscule group from their own choices at the expense of a much larger group being harmed.

[Hindsight was 2020]

The future of this issue is about protecting trans kids and kids meaning kids, not even teenagers.

The anti-trans side here is living in the world of 1990 when a grown man like Bruce decides to "become a woman" (all of a sudden).  Conjuring up the image of a man in a dress, the "transsexual" on Jerry Springer.

In the world of 2024, it's the 9 year old child going to school.

this is a much more complex issue but it has been sensationalized by the media for decades.

But there is no choice, because no one would choose it.  Nobody would choose to be trans... why, when you don't have to be?

No, we're living in the world where detransitioners exist and children are being convinced by a few relatives and the internet that they're transgender because their interests are not a hundred percent stereotypical. Which is something some of us are against. The science still isn't even close to done on this subject either.

Way more actual trans kids would have been hurt by this bill than detransitioners would have been help. So straight up is the position you guys got is “we would let 100 trans kids suffer if it saved just one kid who’s not actually trans?”

[Thank you for being a friend...]

I can only speak from my own life, which is of course why this issue is the most important to me on a personal level that one can only understand when they've lived 38 years this way.

I am basically what happens to a trans person when they do not transition - I'm "the bad transgender", in other words, because I'm not what the media wants to see.  I can't walk around as a happy trans woman.  I'm not Sarah McBride, or Caitlyn Jenner.

I "detransitioned" three times - in the past 12 years.  Each time I did it I did it because I felt that the process was too much to handle emotionally.  The hope was initially there, but I could not proceed with it.  Really it's because of what I look like most of all, but there's other parts of it - it requires a lot of courage, which I don't have.  It requires a LOT of money as well.

We live in a world where our faces and our bodies seem to matter more than who we are inside.  There's a preoccupation with physical beauty standards that some of us are not able to live up to.

Like I keep saying, taking hormone blockers, hormones, and having operations is not recommended for everyone.  No one should be pressured into going down that path unless they are already living in that sex, and the longer the better.

Counseling is very important, but it must explain all of the choices, and it must be done with the parents because having the supportive family is necessary.  Most importantly is actually good faith-based, spiritual counseling, but affirming counseling, not conversion therapy.  Trans kids, trans teens, trans adults, all of them need to be grounded in a spiritual place and this also applies to the broader LGBTQ population.

It's very sad that there's a very tall wall when it comes to religion and LGBTQ because it's many of the LGBTQ that need God the most.  Not to change them or have them "repent their sins", but to provide comfort, to provide healing, to provide love.  Sometimes the best therapy is spiritual therapy, which you aren't really going to always get from the psychiatric world.

[jojoju1998]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I know about gender transition healthcare, usually typically, there has to be a time of counseling, and parent involvement pro forma. This is of course, if one seeks care at a specialized university based system.

https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/service/gender/what-to-expect?

"The initial visit is an opportunity for us and for you to learn about each other. A medical provider and a mental health provider will discuss your clinical care goals and where you are on your gender journey, and together with you they will come up with a plan that best supports you both now and moving forward on your journey. You will learn about the services offered at the Gender Clinic and will have the opportunity to ask questions, discuss the gender spectrum, and talk about gender-affirming interventions.

Before your first visit, our social worker will complete an interview to learn more about you and your family. This visit will be with the parent only for minors and with the patient only for adults 18 years and older.
At the initial visit, you will meet with a doctor and psychologist, who will provide education about the services offered at the Gender Clinic and an overview of gender affirming medical treatments. You will have the opportunity to discuss the gender spectrum, where you are on your gender journey, and what your goals are in coming to clinic. You will have the opportunity to ask questions.
You will learn about options for gender affirming medical treatments, including puberty blockers and gender affirming hormones.
Our team will work with you to develop individualized medical and mental health treatment plans.
In most instances, a recommendation will be made to see a mental health provider. We often refer to our trusted community providers to meet the mental health needs of our patients, as we have limited availability for providing mental health services for all our patients.
We will provide resources including a list of local gender therapists; community organizations that support LGBTQ+ youth, adolescents, and young adults; and support groups, websites, and books; as well as information regarding social, medical, and legal transitions.
In addition to core providers, referrals may be made to adolescent medicine, adolescent gynecology, primary care, fertility preservation, and/or surgery."



Of course, this whole ruckus just avoids the fact, that people who seek gender affirming care, often don't get access to these University programs ( since insurance is iffy on this.), So they get care from the crappier private doctors, who might not offer any comprehensive care at all.

[Schiff for Senate]

Great! Another DeWine moment of sanity.

Now do the same on abortion rights!

[Perlen vor den Schweinen]

Re: "children are being convinced by a few relatives and the internet that they're transgender because their interests are not a hundred percent stereotypical": this comes from a historically common prerequisite to begin transition-related medical treatment; that is, to display stereotypical interests of the opposite sex. It goes without saying that this requirement is hogwash; gender nonconforming interests are just that.

Requirements like this have indeed harmed many people: gays, lesbians and GNC people never needed to/should never have transitioned, and only did because of "conformity," and trans people who were denied medical transition because they had any kind of gender conformity.

...and this is a very easy requirement to lie about. Many, many, many gay/lesbian/GNC trans men and women have just... lied about this requirement and described themselves as hyper-gender-conforming heterosexuals, as treatment requirements demanded.

[Ferguson97]

While listening to multiple experts and looking and different sides is indeed the correct way to approach things, he reached the wrong conclusion. Government normally shouldn't interfere with parental choice but there is call for intervention to prevent child abuse. Additionally government is already involved when kids are being brainwashed in schools to think they are the opposite sex just because they don't follow some "gender" norm.

In general I would give credit to someone for breaking from standard party doctrine, but giving into cult is not a positive.

He's not giving into a cult; he's breaking away from it.

[President Johnson]

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1745198022823440569

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

DeWine's Decision is just one more reason to vote against Nikki "Fraud" Haley. The Republican Uniparty of DeWine, Haley, Ryan, Romney, McCarthy, etc. will never get into Power ever again.

Both, DeWine and Haley are too much beholden to Wall Street Donors. DeSantis told that freak Robert Bigelow that he can't be bought by Special Interests.

Why do you care if someone receives gender affirming care? Does that affect you?

[Arizona Iced Tea]

https://twitter.com/againstgrmrs/status/1750265540755550426
https://twitter.com/ConservBrief/status/1750262528913858902
So let it be written, so let it be done. Another political defeat for DeWine.