American Secession

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

[Suburbia]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

It's time for a divorce. The sad part is that moderates like me are politically homeless. I don't know where to go.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

What is this 'responsibility for their countrymen' you're talking about? Cause I feel absolutely zero responsibility for people who don't want to help themselves; and actually kind of feel like working class people who vote for conservative policies sort of deserve what they're asking for. A nice big dose of unlimited laissez-faire economics and the dismantling of the social welfare system.

For real though, how can you claim a country that is minute in the grand scheme of things really demands a 'historical perspective'. If we /did/ split up you'd practically blink before that became the historical perspective in another 50-60 years.

This country is for the birds; to put it nicely, no one actually believes in it any more, just the idealized version they imagine in their heads. Time to start over.

[Suburbia]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

What is this 'responsibility for their countrymen' you're talking about? Cause I feel absolutely zero responsibility for people who don't want to help themselves; and actually kind of feel like working class people who vote for conservative policies sort of deserve what they're asking for. A nice big dose of unlimited laissez-faire economics and the dismantling of the social welfare system.

For real though, how can you claim a country that is minute in the grand scheme of things really demands a 'historical perspective'. If we /did/ split up you'd practically blink before that became the historical perspective in another 50-60 years.

This country is for the birds; to put it nicely, no one actually believes in it any more, just the idealized version they imagine in their heads. Time to start over.

Will it be sad to see the breakup/partition of America?

What do apolitical people do?

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

No, but I think there perhaps should be a mechanism to allow for secession.  Maybe based on a referendum that achieves 2/3rds support of the population twice in a row?

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

What is this 'responsibility for their countrymen' you're talking about? Cause I feel absolutely zero responsibility for people who don't want to help themselves; and actually kind of feel like working class people who vote for conservative policies sort of deserve what they're asking for. A nice big dose of unlimited laissez-faire economics and the dismantling of the social welfare system.

For real though, how can you claim a country that is minute in the grand scheme of things really demands a 'historical perspective'. If we /did/ split up you'd practically blink before that became the historical perspective in another 50-60 years.

This country is for the birds; to put it nicely, no one actually believes in it any more, just the idealized version they imagine in their heads. Time to start over.

Will it be sad to see the breakup/partition of America?

What do apolitical people do?

Eh, I can't say I've ever been a very patriotic person. I've always identified more with the states I've lived in and the people I grew up with than actually being 'an American' which; during the time I've been old enough to actually think about it consciously, has always been more a source of shame than anything else.

Being 'apolitical' is in and of itself a luxury. Most 'apolitical' people when I start talking to them about very specific proposals for increasing the economic power of the average person or holding oligarchs and corporations accountable almost inevitably agree; it's usually less about being truly 'apolitical' with those people, and more about the fact that they're just ignorant and don't really care to know in the first place. It's the overarching ideologies, parties and labels that scare them off.

Not saying that's you. Actually, I find the idea of an apolitical yet politically knowledgable person to be quite an anachronism. Usually increasing consciousness leads to some sort of desire to use ones agency for change. But hey, more power to you bro. I still think you'd be better off in one of the more socially liberal 'Nations' that would form from this.

Move somewhere beautiful. Get a dog. Smoke a blunt.

[WMS]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

It would be a disaster for the U.S., and, in spite of what some very stupid people believe, a disaster for the rest of the world as well.

[Suburbia]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

What is this 'responsibility for their countrymen' you're talking about? Cause I feel absolutely zero responsibility for people who don't want to help themselves; and actually kind of feel like working class people who vote for conservative policies sort of deserve what they're asking for. A nice big dose of unlimited laissez-faire economics and the dismantling of the social welfare system.

For real though, how can you claim a country that is minute in the grand scheme of things really demands a 'historical perspective'. If we /did/ split up you'd practically blink before that became the historical perspective in another 50-60 years.

This country is for the birds; to put it nicely, no one actually believes in it any more, just the idealized version they imagine in their heads. Time to start over.

Will it be sad to see the breakup/partition of America?

What do apolitical people do?

Eh, I can't say I've ever been a very patriotic person. I've always identified more with the states I've lived in and the people I grew up with than actually being 'an American' which; during the time I've been old enough to actually think about it consciously, has always been more a source of shame than anything else.

Being 'apolitical' is in and of itself a luxury. Most 'apolitical' people when I start talking to them about very specific proposals for increasing the economic power of the average person or holding oligarchs and corporations accountable almost inevitably agree; it's usually less about being truly 'apolitical' with those people, and more about the fact that they're just ignorant and don't really care to know in the first place. It's the overarching ideologies, parties and labels that scare them off.

Not saying that's you. Actually, I find the idea of an apolitical yet politically knowledgable person to be quite an anachronism. Usually increasing consciousness leads to some sort of desire to use ones agency for change. But hey, more power to you bro. I still think you'd be better off in one of the more socially liberal 'Nations' that would form from this.

Move somewhere beautiful. Get a dog. Smoke a blunt.

Would a leftist country celebrate Christmas? Since a lot of leftists are atheists, what would be the holidays?

Rightists believe in July 4, 1776, Thanksgiving, Columbus Day, etc. What do leftists celebrate? That is what rightists have an edge over leftists.

A lot of leftists don't like this holiday.....

[Suburbia]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

What is this 'responsibility for their countrymen' you're talking about? Cause I feel absolutely zero responsibility for people who don't want to help themselves; and actually kind of feel like working class people who vote for conservative policies sort of deserve what they're asking for. A nice big dose of unlimited laissez-faire economics and the dismantling of the social welfare system.

For real though, how can you claim a country that is minute in the grand scheme of things really demands a 'historical perspective'. If we /did/ split up you'd practically blink before that became the historical perspective in another 50-60 years.

This country is for the birds; to put it nicely, no one actually believes in it any more, just the idealized version they imagine in their heads. Time to start over.

Start over, how? Who's in control? Native Americans? Who is the first president of leftwing America? AOC?

[GeorgiaModerate]

Oroville, California, has declared itself a constitutional republic and says that it will not enforce “any executive orders issued by the state of California or by the United States federal government that are overreaching or clearly violate our constitutionally protected rights.”

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2021/11/12/oroville-is-constitutional-republic-what-does-that-mean/

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

No we need three countries.

[Lord Halifax]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

It would be a disaster for the U.S., and, in spite of what some very stupid people believe, a disaster for the rest of the world as well.

How would it be a disaster for China, Russia, Pakistan and Iran? A lot of countries would benefit from it.

[WMS]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

It would be a disaster for the U.S., and, in spite of what some very stupid people believe, a disaster for the rest of the world as well.

How would it be a disaster for China, Russia, Pakistan and Iran? A lot of countries would benefit from it.

For their ruling classes, it would be great. For the overwhelming masses of non-elites, it would mean unending repression, both covert and overt. Utter worldwide authoritarian oligarchy (or even worse than that), a world of de facto slaves and their masters. But don’t worry the useful idiot brigade will still get to lead the anti-American chants during the daily Two Minutes Hate.

[R.P. McM]

I really don't think anyone advocating this has contemplated the massive, disruptive population migrations that would likely follow any sort of secession. This isn't like the 1860s when there was a clear regional divide splitting the country along easy-to-define lines, in America now you have dense, liberal urban cores surrounded by far right rural areas in nearly every state. How do you divide that into different countries in a way that doesn't cause chaos?

I think it's a given that at the point at which such a proposal becomes a realistic possibility, the nation is already mired in massive chaos. Which doesn't seem like a particularly far-fetched prospect, given the current trajectory.

[R.P. McM]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

Yeah, "cringe leftoids" want the U.S. to be more like Canada, and "MAGA deplorables" want a fascist dictatorship. Which one of those things is actually a serious concern?

And at what point does one cease to be one of my fellow "countrymen?" Are they allowed to betray me to foreign interests, and attempt to subvert a democratic election in favor of authoritarian minority rule? Not in my book — they've crossed a red line, I can no longer trust them, and I owe them nothing in the form of patriotic/political allegiance.

[R.P. McM]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

It would be a disaster for the U.S., and, in spite of what some very stupid people believe, a disaster for the rest of the world as well.

What's more disastrous for the rest of the world? Choose one:

A.) A Trumpist authoritarian state that commands the resources of the entire U.S.

B.) A Trumpist authoritarian state that commands the resources of Red America, but is stalwartly opposed by a significantly more populous and powerful Blue State bloc.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

No but Cruz is threatening succession if D's get the Trifecta back and get 52 votes or more in the Senate that's why we need to elect Beto, Ryan and Demings, Demings is only six back because Rubio is obstructing VR, he was 19 pts ahead

Abbott, Rubio and DeSsntis are in trouble because it was said that Biden is at 63 percent of the vote and he needs only 70 we won't sweep every race but we need Ryan, Demings abd Beto to get DC Statehood

[Suburbia]

One thing is that in a leftwing utopia, there will probably be no guns, that probably saves Black and Latino people...............................

[Fuzzy Bear]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

It would be a disaster for the U.S., and, in spite of what some very stupid people believe, a disaster for the rest of the world as well.

How would it be a disaster for China, Russia, Pakistan and Iran? A lot of countries would benefit from it.

For their ruling classes, it would be great. For the overwhelming masses of non-elites, it would mean unending repression, both covert and overt. Utter worldwide authoritarian oligarchy (or even worse than that), a world of de facto slaves and their masters. But don’t worry the useful idiot brigade will still get to lead the anti-American chants during the daily Two Minutes Hate.

This.

But if we don't back away from Identity Politics, we'll continue in this dangerous direction.

[WMS]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

It would be a disaster for the U.S., and, in spite of what some very stupid people believe, a disaster for the rest of the world as well.

What's more disastrous for the rest of the world? Choose one:

A.) A Trumpist authoritarian state that commands the resources of the entire U.S.

B.) A Trumpist authoritarian state that commands the resources of Red America, but is stalwartly opposed by a significantly more populous and powerful Blue State bloc.

C.) Both options lead to the triumph of oligarchic authoritarianism. In A, the U.S. aligns with Russia and/or China and holy crap it’s Nineteen Eighty-Four, oligarchic variant, maybe with less interstate conflict (but I wouldn’t bet on it). In B, the U.S. is consumed by its own internal conflict and nothing stands in the way of Russian/Chinese/+ more oligarchic authoritarianism sweeping the globe - the + is because in such a world I see several current democracies either converting to authoritarianism a la say what Tanzania did with Chinese support or say what Mali is in the process of doing with Russian support or what future India might do with or without outside support; or being subverted by outside authoritarian actors like what is happening in Georgia or has happened in Venezuela or might happen in Ukraine; or any combination thereof.

Nothing gets better if you’re not an elite.

[WMS]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

It would be a disaster for the U.S., and, in spite of what some very stupid people believe, a disaster for the rest of the world as well.

How would it be a disaster for China, Russia, Pakistan and Iran? A lot of countries would benefit from it.

For their ruling classes, it would be great. For the overwhelming masses of non-elites, it would mean unending repression, both covert and overt. Utter worldwide authoritarian oligarchy (or even worse than that), a world of de facto slaves and their masters. But don’t worry the useful idiot brigade will still get to lead the anti-American chants during the daily Two Minutes Hate.

This.

But if we don't back away from Identity Politics, we'll continue in this dangerous direction.

If we don’t focus more on what we all have in common instead of what we don’t - and left, right, center, and the rest are all guilty of failing to do this - then we’ll atomize explosively.

The U.S. is an ill and tarnished knight, but it’s all that’s left standing against Autocracy Inc. I was hoping the EU could rise to be another such force but as Nord Stream and other such things indicate the EU is as ill and tarnished as the U.S.

[Fuzzy Bear]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

It would be a disaster for the U.S., and, in spite of what some very stupid people believe, a disaster for the rest of the world as well.

How would it be a disaster for China, Russia, Pakistan and Iran? A lot of countries would benefit from it.

For their ruling classes, it would be great. For the overwhelming masses of non-elites, it would mean unending repression, both covert and overt. Utter worldwide authoritarian oligarchy (or even worse than that), a world of de facto slaves and their masters. But don’t worry the useful idiot brigade will still get to lead the anti-American chants during the daily Two Minutes Hate.

This.

But if we don't back away from Identity Politics, we'll continue in this dangerous direction.

If we don’t focus more on what we all have in common instead of what we don’t - and left, right, center, and the rest are all guilty of failing to do this - then we’ll atomize explosively.

The U.S. is an ill and tarnished knight, but it’s all that’s left standing against Autocracy Inc. I was hoping the EU could rise to be another such force but as Nord Stream and other such things indicate the EU is as ill and tarnished as the U.S.

I do very much believe in this.  How to convince people of this is another issue.  It will not be good, however, if people can't be convinced.

[CEO Mindset]

Sure. Either break up the US or just kick out washington DC, NOVA, maryland and Delaware and let that keep the US name/international commitments.

The other 48 states can bring back the old Confederate states of america name and flag as a handy thing.

[R.P. McM]

No way in hell, and people advocating for this because they don't want to share a country with cringe leftoids and/or MAGA deplorables have no historical perspective and no sense of responsibility for their countrymen. (normal, sane, patriot)

It would be a disaster for the U.S., and, in spite of what some very stupid people believe, a disaster for the rest of the world as well.

What's more disastrous for the rest of the world? Choose one:

A.) A Trumpist authoritarian state that commands the resources of the entire U.S.

B.) A Trumpist authoritarian state that commands the resources of Red America, but is stalwartly opposed by a significantly more populous and powerful Blue State bloc.

C.) Both options lead to the triumph of oligarchic authoritarianism. In A, the U.S. aligns with Russia and/or China and holy crap it’s Nineteen Eighty-Four, oligarchic variant, maybe with less interstate conflict (but I wouldn’t bet on it). In B, the U.S. is consumed by its own internal conflict and nothing stands in the way of Russian/Chinese/+ more oligarchic authoritarianism sweeping the globe - the + is because in such a world I see several current democracies either converting to authoritarianism a la say what Tanzania did with Chinese support or say what Mali is in the process of doing with Russian support or what future India might do with or without outside support; or being subverted by outside authoritarian actors like what is happening in Georgia or has happened in Venezuela or might happen in Ukraine; or any combination thereof.

Nothing gets better if you’re not an elite.

No, no they don't. Because China and the second-rate power that is modern Russia, which hasn't been closely aligned with China since the 1970's, doesn't constitute a hegemonic threat against Western Europe + Japan/Korea + Blue America/Canada/Australia. Whereas Red America represents the very authoritarian threat you fear elsewhere in the world. They already elected to the presidency a lawless, racist, sexual predator, and attempted to subvert a democratic election in order to preserve his catastrophic tenure. What more evidence do you need, short of a successful coup and a fascist thug with his boot on your neck?

I genuinely think you're going to need that boot on your neck, but the good news is, by that point, I'll be long gone. Let the centrists/corporatists/accommodationists pay for their disastrous judgement; no one who's been sounding the alarm should suffer any ill consequences.

You want option C.), but there is no option C.), because Republicans aren't about to start respecting norms, the legitimacy of their domestic political opponents, or the results of a democratic election they happened to lose. Nothing suggests they've learned any lessons from the Trump era, and you're massively delusional if you believe otherwise.