Rank English speaking countries from most conservative to most progressive
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Author Topic: Rank English speaking countries from most conservative to most progressive  (Read 2212 times)
mileslunn
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« on: June 21, 2021, 01:59:36 PM »

Of the six below rank them from most conservative to most progressive.  Below is my order but some may feel differently.

1.  United States
2.  Australia
3.  Ireland
4.  United Kingdom
5.  New Zealand
6.  Canada
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iamaganster123
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2021, 02:18:37 PM »

Your order looks about right except I would switch Ireland and the UK
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Lechasseur
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2021, 05:10:10 PM »
« Edited: June 21, 2021, 05:19:22 PM by Lechasseur »

OP's ranking I'd say is basically correct, however I think it's more pertinent to rank them by blocks.

In the most conservative block you clearly have the US first and Australia second.

In the middle block, you have the UK and Ireland. It's debatable which one would be more conservative.

And in the most progressive block, you have Canada and New Zealand. I think it's debatable which one would be more progressive (I can see a strong argument for both, however one thing I noticed is NZ Nationals are definitely more liberal than Canadian Tories (and that's probably been the case since the 1980s, unless you consider the rump PCs under Clark at the turn of the millennium as the standard bearers of Canadian conservatism, which I wouldn't by that point), but NZ Labour seems less socially progressive but more economically progressive than the Canadian Liberals).
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Computer89
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2021, 05:27:19 PM »
« Edited: June 21, 2021, 05:35:52 PM by Old School Republican »

1. US(not even close)
2. Australia
3. Canada
4. Ireland
5. UK(The Tories win a lot here but they are basically Ontario style tories so yah)
6. New Zealand  
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EastwoodS
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2021, 06:00:40 PM »

US by a large gap, then Australia..mild gap... The UK, Ireland, NZ..gap Canada
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WindowPhil
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2021, 08:52:00 PM »

OP's ranking I'd say is basically correct, however I think it's more pertinent to rank them by blocks.

In the most conservative block you clearly have the US first and Australia second.

In the middle block, you have the UK and Ireland. It's debatable which one would be more conservative.

And in the most progressive block, you have Canada and New Zealand. I think it's debatable which one would be more progressive (I can see a strong argument for both, however one thing I noticed is NZ Nationals are definitely more liberal than Canadian Tories (and that's probably been the case since the 1980s, unless you consider the rump PCs under Clark at the turn of the millennium as the standard bearers of Canadian conservatism, which I wouldn't by that point), but NZ Labour seems less socially progressive but more economically progressive than the Canadian Liberals).

The U.S is in a block of its own.
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jaymichaud
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2021, 04:10:06 AM »

USA
Australia
UK
Ireland
New Zealand
Canada
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beesley
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2021, 04:14:47 AM »

USA
Australia
UK
Ireland
New Zealand
Canada

I agree. I'm not convinced Ireland is more conservative than the UK other than on issues like abortion, which aren't big issues in many of these countries, or where they are, it's just a loud minority (which is also true for the US, to be honest).
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jfern
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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2021, 04:25:25 AM »

US
Australia
Ireland
UK
Canada
NZ
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2021, 07:20:09 AM »

I would still have Ireland more "conservative" than the UK, though the gap is narrowing all the time.
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WindowPhil
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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2021, 08:38:51 AM »

How are Canada and the U.S the farthest apart but the closest geography and (on the surface) culturally?
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2021, 11:17:24 AM »

How are Canada and the U.S the farthest apart but the closest geography and (on the surface) culturally?

Geographical proximity to the US is precisely why Canadian politics is so different. We're much more exposed to US politics than most others, and the more you see the horror show of US politics, the more you try to be different Tongue

I'm only half kidding btw. Canada's founders specifically wanted Canadian politics to be different from American. Originally this meant being good Tories who love the queen and hate liberalism in all its forms, but over time it morphed into a much more progressive identity
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2021, 11:23:41 AM »

Ireland isn't South Dublin - which itself is not remotely left-wing even if it is quite liberal - I really ought to note...
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laddicus finch
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2021, 11:32:06 AM »

1. USA
(Huge gap)
2. Aus
(Small gap)
3. UK
4. Ireland
(Medium sized gap)
5. Canada
6. NZ (interchangeable but I'm leaning NZ because they weren't quite as genocidal as we were)

I would caution against the assumption that Canada is more conducive to left-wing politics simply because of our more progressive culture. The UK is more right wing than Canada on the whole, but it's also a country where someone like Jeremy Corbyn won the leadership of a major party. You'd never have someone like him heading the Liberals, and I'd argue Corbyn's political philosophy would put him on the left wing of the NDP.

Canada is ultimately a liberal country where the range of relevant political discourse stretches from social democracy to liberal conservatism. But it is not really a left-wing country, and leftist/socialist/labourist politics have never seen much success here.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2021, 11:42:50 AM »
« Edited: June 22, 2021, 11:55:14 AM by Southern Deputy Speaker Punxsutawney Phil »

From most right-wing to most left-wing in general terms
Ireland
US
Australia
UK
Canada
NZ

From most socially conservative to socially progressive (a measurement I would hold to be independent of left-right)
Ireland
Australia
UK
US
Canada
NZ
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EastwoodS
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2021, 11:50:59 AM »

From most right-wing to most left-wing in general terms
Ireland
US
Australia
UK
Canada
NZ

From most socially conservative to socially progressive (a measurement I would hold to be independent of left-right)
Ireland
Australia
UK
Canada
US
NZ
what the heck..the US should be number one or two on social conservativism. Definitely ahead of Australia and the UK. What on earth
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2021, 11:55:00 AM »
« Edited: June 22, 2021, 11:58:24 AM by Southern Deputy Speaker Punxsutawney Phil »

From most right-wing to most left-wing in general terms
Ireland
US
Australia
UK
Canada
NZ

From most socially conservative to socially progressive (a measurement I would hold to be independent of left-right)
Ireland
Australia
UK
Canada
US
NZ
what the heck..the US should be number one or two on social conservativism. Definitely ahead of Australia and the UK. What on earth
The US' social conservativism level vis a vis other Anglosphere nations is very overrated, and in fact progressive thought has massive amounts of impact on its political discourse. It also has substantially more permissive abortion laws than the UK and Australia. That being said, placing Canada as more socon than America is definitely an error, and I'll correct that.
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EastwoodS
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2021, 11:57:59 AM »

From most right-wing to most left-wing in general terms
Ireland
US
Australia
UK
Canada
NZ

From most socially conservative to socially progressive (a measurement I would hold to be independent of left-right)
Ireland
Australia
UK
Canada
US
NZ
what the heck..the US should be number one or two on social conservativism. Definitely ahead of Australia and the UK. What on earth
The US' social conservativism vis a vis other Anglosphere nations are very overrated, and in fact progressive thought has massive amounts of impact on its political discourse. It also has substantially more permissive abortion laws than the UK and Australia. That being said, placing Canada as more socon than America is definitely an error, and I'll correct that.
Ok, if you mean the rate a which a country is willing to change status quo, I would agree. The US has always been the more progressive one. But socially right or left wing, it’s different still the most RW, I may have gotten confused
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2021, 12:01:37 PM »

From most right-wing to most left-wing in general terms
Ireland
US
Australia
UK
Canada
NZ

From most socially conservative to socially progressive (a measurement I would hold to be independent of left-right)
Ireland
Australia
UK
Canada
US
NZ
what the heck..the US should be number one or two on social conservativism. Definitely ahead of Australia and the UK. What on earth
The US' social conservativism vis a vis other Anglosphere nations are very overrated, and in fact progressive thought has massive amounts of impact on its political discourse. It also has substantially more permissive abortion laws than the UK and Australia. That being said, placing Canada as more socon than America is definitely an error, and I'll correct that.
Ok, if you mean the rate a which a country is willing to change status quo, I would agree. The US has always been the more progressive one. But socially right or left wing, it’s different still the most RW, I may have gotten confused
I placed US as second most RW in general terms behind Ireland, but really there is not a huge gap between the six. If I thought there was such a huge gap then I would have said so.
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laddicus finch
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« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2021, 12:12:35 PM »

An interesting aspect of Canadian progressivism is multiculturalism, which is celebrated in Canada to an extent rarely seen elsewhere. Ironically, this is in part due to a relatively selective immigration policy that places huge emphasis on economic and family migrants who are much more likely to integrate easily, and it shows.

To be sure there are ethnic enclaves in Canada, like Brampton, but I would hardly call it a ghetto. But there is an easy acceptance of Canada that immigrants have that helps with integration. I grew up in an area with a lot of Iranian/Persian migrants and generally they were some of the most patriotic Canadians I've known. It's much harder to stoke fear of "outsiders" when the outsiders are often your neighbours.

Immigrants from socially conservative countries also tend to accept Canada's freakish social progressivism more easily than you'd see in places like the UK. I'm thinking of Rob Oliphant, an openly and vocally gay MP who represents a heavily Muslim constituency in Toronto and has a lot of support from the Muslims there. There was also talk of an anti-Liberal backlash among minorities, particularly Muslims, in ontario after the former Liberal government in ontario introduced a new sex ed curriculum that would discuss sexual orientation and gender identity early on. To be sure there were Muslim faith leaders who spoke out against this, and yet the precint-by-precinct data from the following election shows that areas with large Muslim populations were much more Liberal than average. So even if socially conservative immigrant groups maintain that social conservatism within the household, they are more than happy to support socially progressive politics that are pretty foreign to their homelands. By second and third generations, they assimilate and this personal conservatism tends to fizzle away too.
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Abdullah
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« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2021, 12:46:28 PM »

Bonus: South Africa

United States
Australia
The United Kingdom
Ireland
Canada
New Zealand

Not sure why so many people rank Canada as more progressive than New Zealand
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mileslunn
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« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2021, 12:57:48 PM »

How are Canada and the U.S the farthest apart but the closest geography and (on the surface) culturally?

It is precisely because of that.  Being Canadian in big part is about not being American so there is strong tendency to what to go in opposite direction as many don't like what they see in US whereas in other English speaking countries US is far enough removed people focus less on what happens there.  Even though Canada has less income inequality than most English speaking countries, it is a huge issue here due to how bad it is in US.  In other English speaking ones, a parallel private health system has existed for years and no one, not even parties on left have a problem with it, while in Canada a private clinic opens and many get all upset worried its going to mean end of universal health care.  On abortion, its really discussed in other English speaking countries while in Canada any talk of even minor limits gets people all nervous we will get what religious right in US wants.

Other reason too is Canada is only English speaking country that isn't English speaking in all parts.  Quebec is almost a quarter of country so that has some impact too.  By same token Quebec tends to be less consumed with US debates than rest of Canada is because of language barrier and there focus more on protecting French language knowing as long as they have different language little threat of Americanization whereas in rest of Canada because of how close strong desire to do everything to ensure we are different.
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WindowPhil
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2021, 01:59:49 PM »

From most right-wing to most left-wing in general terms
Ireland
US
Australia
UK
Canada
NZ

From most socially conservative to socially progressive (a measurement I would hold to be independent of left-right)
Ireland
Australia
UK
Canada
US
NZ
what the heck..the US should be number one or two on social conservativism. Definitely ahead of Australia and the UK. What on earth
The US' social conservativism vis a vis other Anglosphere nations are very overrated, and in fact progressive thought has massive amounts of impact on its political discourse. It also has substantially more permissive abortion laws than the UK and Australia. That being said, placing Canada as more socon than America is definitely an error, and I'll correct that.
Ok, if you mean the rate a which a country is willing to change status quo, I would agree. The US has always been the more progressive one. But socially right or left wing, it’s different still the most RW, I may have gotten confused

I'd disagree.

The U.S still uses paper checks and SMS when countries like Canada use Etransfer and most of the world uses Whatsapp.

When I crossed the border back into the U.S after visiting Canada, something I noticed was the dearth of modern music genres and the abundance of past ones.
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King of Kensington
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« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2021, 04:10:18 PM »

How are Canada and the U.S the farthest apart but the closest geography and (on the surface) culturally?

Most of Canada is like a super-duper blue state politically. 

Imagine 80% of the population living in the Northeast or the West Coast. 
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« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2021, 05:10:41 PM »

How are Canada and the U.S the farthest apart but the closest geography and (on the surface) culturally?

Another thing is, while Americans and (English) Canadians are 90% the same culturally, there are a few big differences that result in different voting patterns.

I think religiosity is an enormous part of political differences between Canada and the US. Evangelical Protestantism is rare up here, while it is a major driver of conservative politics down south. Many Americans wear their faith on their sleeves to a genuinely creepy extent by Canadian standards.

Canadians are also a lot less chauvinistic. Don't get me wrong, we're patriotic too, but it manifests differently in Canada because we're not exactly a superpower but share a continent with one. The US is the economic, cultural, and military powerhouse of the world, and this lends itself to a "we're number 1" kind of right-wing nationalism. This obviously doesn't exist in Canada - instead there's a more Scandinavian cultural identity of "we're a pretty small and culturally insignificant country, but we have it good and like to keep things polite and peaceful" which lends itself to a preference for progressive politics.
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