Trump: Not a "Conservative" but an "Anti-Progressive"

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Anti-progressive?  Do we really need a new word to replace "reactionary"?

[pbrower2a]

http://buchanan.org/blog/trump-middle-american-radical-128704

https://thefederalist.com/2018/02/05/trump-isnt-conservative-thats-good-thing/

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The gist of these two articles is the same.  Trump isn't a "conservative", but he is, very much, an "anti-progressive".  He views many American institutions as having been captured by the Left to the point where they don't deserve the reputations that they have enjoyed.  And he has chosen to take them on, and take them on directly.

True. He is a reactionary and a demagogue, neither of which fits the usual definition of 'conservative' as we might have understood in the Reagan era. He does not want to scale back institutions; he wants to destroy them, perhaps to replace them with something fitting his beliefs. He doesn't want a non-partisan FBI chary of doing the political dirty work of his Party; he wants a secret police. He wants the EPA to disappear. He has yet to call for the abolition  of Social Security, but it would not surprise me.

He wants government strictly as an enforcer of elite power. He does not want anything to interfere with such -- not even old standards of professionalism and integrity. I see evidence in his campaign that he hates the educated middle class,  believing that the role of anyone 'common' is to either do the hard, dirty work or to serve as obedient flunkies.

That, so far as I can tell is his idea of American 'greatness'. Everybody knew his place -- to work hard under rigid discipline for meager pay to buy bare necessities at monopolized prices, all the better for maximal profits. Profit is, after all, the only measure of progress. Look at the billowing smoke from the smokestacks and the effluents flowing into the stream -- now that is powerful evidence of progress.

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For others, the elite status is earned in learning, personal integrity, and professionalism. That status goes with legitimate achievement, and such status allows one to not have to think solely  of profit and loss as with people leasing property  or in retail trade. I can imagine what President Trump wants for schoolteachers: inculcating students with unlimited deference toward owners and executives, admiring slumlords more than such 'low-life' entities as scientists and scholars.      

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It is not only a culture war; it is also a class struggle.  Note that the 'ground' has been taken away from the class that Donald Trump admires over about 85 years (which corresponds to the inauguration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who had to sacrifice class privilege to save capitalism. Donald Trump relishes a return to an economic jungle in which few Americans would be comfortable, a jungle that he does not understand and with consequences that only the reckless would seek.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Anti-progressive?  Do we really need a new word to replace "reactionary"?

Well, they managed to insert into the political vocabulary weasel terms like "death tax" and "job creators", so they might as well try that too.

[TJ in Oregon]

Anti-progressive?  Do we really need a new word to replace "reactionary"?

Are the only two options here "progressive" and "reactionary"? I mean, there are a zillion ideologies: liberal, libertarian, nationalist, mercantilist, interventionist, etc. that are neither inherently progressive nor inherently reactionary. It makes perfect sense to say Trump is neither progressive nor reactionary, though he is clearly actively anti-progressive while he couldn't care less about reactionaries.

[Sestak]

Aka Trump's ideology is just "triggering the libtards lmao"

[Nyvin]

Pat Buchanan is correct. I think that's part of why Trump generated such enthusiasm from young white males fed up with SJWs. The graph is from a survey of something like 100,000 high school students in 47 states.

Call me skeptical but I'm not quite buying this.

[pbrower2a]

Pat Buchanan is correct. I think that's part of why Trump generated such enthusiasm from young white males fed up with SJWs. The graph is from a survey of something like 100,000 high school students in 47 states.

Call me skeptical but I'm not quite buying this.

1. Youth generally are much more conservative when they see themselves on a fast track to success -- which is before they go to college or start realizing that the 'great job' that they have is really dead end, and that the American dream is far more than being able to support a ten-year-old car and buy lunch at work.   

2. College education implies in most cases to getting to know fellow students who have different views about the world. Liberalism  is usually more exciting than bland conservatism. Add to that -- they often start finding liberal college professors who can convince them as their high-school teachers dared not try. A high-school civics teacher must be careful about deriding President Trump; a college teacher usually has no such restraint.

4. The generation born after 2001 often has slightly-older kids influencing culture and politics. The Millennial Generation is still quite liberal -- most  likely, the most liberal generation in American history.  Parental influence on political attitudes wanes some, and the new adults (who generally have Boomer or Generation X parents much more conservative than the Millennial Generation( are now coming under the influence of Millennial adults.

5.  Millennial adults are as competent at making their political points as any prior generation, and they haven't created too many problems.

OK, so the youngest voters of 2020 will be born in 2001 and 2002. Conclusions? Nothing definitive yet.     

[Holy Unifying Centrist]

Atlas libtards need to stop denying the obvious truth: Gen Z youth are literal nazis (including the Jewish).

[AtorBoltox]

Isn't it most likely that those figures are just junk?

[Joey1996]

Atlas libtards need to stop denying the obvious truth: Gen Z youth are literal nazis (including the Jewish).

I mean we're talking about 14 year olds who grew up in the social media age. I really don't want to see millennials become out of touch losers who blame all of our problems on the tide pod eating Gen Zers. Now if they're still super reactionary in 4 years it will be a problem.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Anti-progressive?  Do we really need a new word to replace "reactionary"?

Are the only two options here "progressive" and "reactionary"? I mean, there are a zillion ideologies: liberal, libertarian, nationalist, mercantilist, interventionist, etc. that are neither inherently progressive nor inherently reactionary. It makes perfect sense to say Trump is neither progressive nor reactionary, though he is clearly actively anti-progressive while he couldn't care less about reactionaries.

Whether Trump himself is really reactionary is beside the point. His whole campaign was waged on classic reactionary themes such as Make America Great Again that invoke a past that never was.

[Adam Griffin]

So first of all, that "survey" was hocked on an online college platform that collects your info and forwards you information, which means they're probably profiting off of it. It also means the sample was anything but representative, and was probably less refined than a GCS.

Secondly, based on the data points from the survey outlined here, it appears that those two-way figures in the graph above are quite misleading:

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Almost all of those crosstabs line up perfectly with the numbers in the above quote, which basically mean that they excluded the 30% of people who "chose not to vote", as well as the 9% who chose a third party; that's why all of those numbers add up to 100.

Trump got a whopping one-third of the vote among those surveyed; 20% went to Clinton. It's not as if teenagers like to be edgy and non-conformist - especially when answering questions about their political views.

In any other context, this would immediately be dismissed as a "JUNK POLL". Or, you know, you could just look at the claim that 80% of teenage whites are Trump supporters and save yourself the time.

[President Johnson]

Trump is a self-loving right-wing populist and protectionist with an authoritarian streak. Not a conservative. Reagan and Dubya were conservatives, Trump is not.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Trump is a self-loving right-wing populist and protectionist with an authoritarian streak. Not a conservative. Reagan and Dubya were conservatives, Trump is not.

The significance of this is that future GOP Presidential nominating contests will not merely be a test of "Who's the REAL conservative?".  Republicans are no longer going to say, "If only we nominated a REAL conservative, we'd have won."  Those days are past.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump is a self-loving right-wing populist and protectionist with an authoritarian streak. Not a conservative. Reagan and Dubya were conservatives, Trump is not.

Everyone need to stop pretending that 'conservative' has ever meant something more than bigoted, authoritarian, theocratic, pro-ignorance supporters of vampire capitalism - exactly the agenda Trump supports. Claims otherwise are just spin from conservative rats who think the S.S. Trump is bound for the bottom sooner rather than later.

[Holy Unifying Centrist]

Trump is a self-loving right-wing populist and protectionist with an authoritarian streak. Not a conservative. Reagan and Dubya were conservatives, Trump is not.

The significance of this is that future GOP Presidential nominating contests will not merely be a test of "Who's the REAL conservative?".  Republicans are no longer going to say, "If only we nominated a REAL conservative, we'd have won."  Those days are past.

Yeah, now it's a test between who is the most batsh**t insane. That's why Moore won in Alabama, Stewart nearly won in Virgina, and Joe Arpairo is surging in the primary.

You may like where the GOP is going, but there are a ton of millenials like me who have gotten completely turned off by the GOP partly because of Trump.

[Badger]

This is an attempt to intellectualize reactionary politics with no underlying philosophy other than “lol owning the libs”

[TJ in Oregon]

Anti-progressive?  Do we really need a new word to replace "reactionary"?

Are the only two options here "progressive" and "reactionary"? I mean, there are a zillion ideologies: liberal, libertarian, nationalist, mercantilist, interventionist, etc. that are neither inherently progressive nor inherently reactionary. It makes perfect sense to say Trump is neither progressive nor reactionary, though he is clearly actively anti-progressive while he couldn't care less about reactionaries.

Whether Trump himself is really reactionary is beside the point. His whole campaign was waged on classic reactionary themes such as Make America Great Again that invoke a past that never was.

If simple allusion to 'past' and 'future' are what makes someone a progressive or a reactionary, then only a moron could be either. Who really thinks that just because something was in the past it was either good or bad, or simply because we're heading a certain direction that makes it the right direction? A similar sort of argument can also be made for what some people consider the definition of conservatism, the idea that we should make slow careful changes (but never undo changes that have already been made because that would be reactionary). Who in their right mind could ever hold an idea as silly as that? Support the same positions as the progressives, just do it ten years later? All of these terms are silly and pointless when viewed as referring to the trajectory of time rather than a disagreement about which direction our politics will take while continually moving forward in time.

Anyway, Trump's theme was more restorational than reactionary: restoring America to its "rightful place" in the world.

[TJ in Oregon]

Trump is a self-loving right-wing populist and protectionist with an authoritarian streak. Not a conservative. Reagan and Dubya were conservatives, Trump is not.

The significance of this is that future GOP Presidential nominating contests will not merely be a test of "Who's the REAL conservative?".  Republicans are no longer going to say, "If only we nominated a REAL conservative, we'd have won."  Those days are past.

Yeah, now it's a test between who is the most batsh**t insane. That's why Moore won in Alabama, Stewart nearly won in Virgina, and Joe Arpairo is surging in the primary.

You may like where the GOP is going, but there are a ton of millenials like me who have gotten completely turned off by the GOP partly because of Trump.

So what's your point? Is there some set of actionable suggestions you'd like to see the GOP take or have you simply dropped by to grind an axe?

[publicunofficial]

"Giving into your most base desires, fears, and primal urges in reaction to a changing world is, actually, smart" - Every conservative think piece.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Anyway, Trump's theme was more restorational than reactionary: restoring America to its "rightful place" in the world.

That is literally the definition of what it means to be reactionary.

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I suppose one could argue that Trump is reactionary only in certain regards, but you'd hard pressed to find anyone who truly is a perfect reactionary, so quibbling in that way would be an attempt to render the term "reactionary" meaningless.

[Santander]

I'm a reactionary and I'm proud of it.

[Holy Unifying Centrist]

Trump is a self-loving right-wing populist and protectionist with an authoritarian streak. Not a conservative. Reagan and Dubya were conservatives, Trump is not.

The significance of this is that future GOP Presidential nominating contests will not merely be a test of "Who's the REAL conservative?".  Republicans are no longer going to say, "If only we nominated a REAL conservative, we'd have won."  Those days are past.

Yeah, now it's a test between who is the most batsh**t insane. That's why Moore won in Alabama, Stewart nearly won in Virgina, and Joe Arpairo is surging in the primary.

You may like where the GOP is going, but there are a ton of millenials like me who have gotten completely turned off by the GOP partly because of Trump.

So what's your point? Is there some set of actionable suggestions you'd like to see the GOP take or have you simply dropped by to grind an axe?

The GOP has to reject most of Trumpism, allow more moderates into their party (stop trying to run rightwingers in every single damn election) and stop being so reactionary. This likely won't happen until two big election cycle losses in a row, and it will possibly take even longer.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Until anyone has a good, thoughtful, legitimate ing reason to be against justice for people of colour, fairness for women, acceptance of queerfolk, and kindness to people with different religious beliefs, this whole damn thing is a sick joke. Truly.

I mean, "anti-progressive?" WTF is that? You feel insecure that you're asked to have an iota of consideration for people who are different? You're uncomfortable accepting that some people are born into circumstances that force them to confront bigger barriers than you, just because you're afraid of the possibility that maybe you didn't "earn" everything you have with "hard work" alone?

JFC

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

I'm a reactionary and I'm proud of it.

Yeah, I'm starting to agree with this. Nationalist was dumb way for Trump to phrase it. It's not that I'm pro-America. Why would I support its oppressive liberal ideals?  He should replace all references to nationalist with reactionary in the re-election bid. A return to the better times is all we seek.