UK General Discussion: 2017 and onwards, Mayhem

[Silent Hunter]

Audrey, EU migrants don't come here to scrounge benefits. They come here to work and they usually are, so they can't be legally ejected in that regard.

Also, I seriously doubt the EU would allow an "emergency brake" on EU immigration as the movement of young people from the poorer countries of the 2004 and later entrants eases pressure on their societies.

Anyway, it's not the migrants fault that they want better opportunities.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Cameron tried to get the emergency brake in the pre-referendum negotiations and Brussels rejected it. The clause exists to stop microcountries like Liechtenstein from doubling in population every year, not as a clever end run around freedom of movement. If the UK got an emergency brake then Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Switzerland etc. would all demand one too and FoM would collapse.

As for immigration in general, the government has repeatedly stated that it wants similar levels of immigration from the EU to continue post-Brexit for the health of the economy. Just another aspect of the great Brexit stitch-up.

[Silent Hunter]

British people on the whole don't want to work on farms and in the hospitality industry, which is why we've had to hire people from overseas.

[DaWN]

David Cameron has told friends he is planning to return to frontline politics as the next Foreign Secretary

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7639377/david-cameron-return-to-politics/

- Friend who Cameron confided in said he is now “bored s***less”, two years on from walking out of No10

- Also: Boris Johnson tells allies he has given up hope of becoming the next Tory leader.

- But Boris still hopes to be “in the mix” for a Cabinet job under Mrs May’s successor.

And there was me thinking British politics couldn't get any worse

[Silent Hunter]

Theresa May government resignations:

❌Damian Green
❌Michael Fallon
❌Priti Patel
❌Justine Greening
❌Amber Rudd
❌Boris Johnson
❌David Davis
❌Tracey Crouch
❌Guto Bebb
❌Steve Baker

🏆This has to be some sort of record?

No. Harold Macmillan once sacked eight cabinet ministers in one go.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Audrey, you do realize that the bar chart is hopelessly skewed at the top end for the UK by the fact that The City of London, population 9,401, is one of those second-level regions, don't you? In short, that bar chart is useless as far as conveying information instead of mere data.

[Silent Hunter]

Much of London's transport infrastructure is used by people from the East of England and the South East i.e. commuters.

[parochial boy]

London also has grotesque levels of poverty and inequality - some of the most deprived wards in the country are in places like Tottenham or Thamesfield.

Difference is that said poor people tend to have darker skin, which somehow means they can be badged in as "metropolitan elite"

[DaWN]

Regarding transport infrastructure, Crossrail 2 and the third runway (or at least some kind of airport expansion) are pretty necessary capacity enhancements as London's transport system is at breaking point and has been for a while. Frankly, I doubt Crossrail 2 will be enough. That's not to say there aren't serious problems in the north and west, but a) they aren't as much of an issue as in London and b) there's much more investment in the north and west than there has been in the past, and even if it's not much on London, it's still an improvement not to be sniffed at.

[Intell]

^^ of course there are a lot of poor people in London, and not just ethnic minorities, white people as well, particularly in the east of London and north of Hampstead.
But you also can't deny the overwhelming majority of the top 10% live in London and the commuter towns and cities around London (Wandsworth, Chelsea, Hampstead, Richmond park, Buckinghamshire Herefordshire, Surrey, Berkshire, etc) .

In Germany, they redistribute extensively from the wealthiest states to the poorest states,
I wish we had a similar system in the UK ....

So we just fyck the poor of london.

[MaxQue]

^^ of course there are a lot of poor people in London, and not just ethnic minorities, white people as well, particularly in the east of London and north of Hampstead.
But you also can't deny the overwhelming majority of the top 10% live in London and the commuter towns and cities around London (Wandsworth, Chelsea, Hampstead, Richmond park, Buckinghamshire Herefordshire, Surrey, Berkshire, etc) .

In Germany, they redistribute extensively from the wealthiest states to the poorest states,
I wish we had a similar system in the UK ....

So we just fyck the poor of london.

Wouldn't work in UK, as regions don't have governments and unlike Germany and Canada, local authorities main income is central government grants.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Extensive regional redistribution has been the policy of most governments since 1945 - and there were limited nudges in that direction even in the 1930s. In terms of recent governments, it was something the Blair and Brown governments were particularly keen on.

[vileplume]

^^ of course there are a lot of poor people in London, and not just ethnic minorities, white people as well, particularly in the east of London and north of Hampstead.
But you also can't deny the overwhelming majority of the top 10% live in London and the commuter towns and cities around London (Wandsworth, Chelsea, Hampstead, Richmond park, Buckinghamshire Herefordshire, Surrey, Berkshire, etc) .

In Germany, they redistribute extensively from the wealthiest states to the poorest states,
I wish we had a similar system in the UK ....

Not to be picky but I assume you mean Hertfordshire? Herefordshire is a small rural county on the Welsh border (the second smallest in England after tiny Rutland). But even Hertfordshire has it's fair share of poverty especially in towns like Watford, Stevenage, Hatfield, Wewlyn Garden City, Hemel Hempstead and Borhamwood. These towns are very socially divided within themselves though for example Watford has the extremely wealthy areas around Cassiobury Park and extremely deprived areas around the hospital, Hemel has the very poor council built suburb of Adeyfield and the very wealthy Boxmoor (lots of new money) etc.

Inner London also has a lot of 'hidden poverty' and Conservative controlled boroughs like Kensington & Chelsea, Westminster and Wandsworth rank relatively high up on the indices of multiple deprivation. North Kensington (site of Grenfell) for example is for example really deprived whilst South Kensington is very rich but not all that many people live there due to many properties lying empty as second homes often owned by foreign investors who can't vote. Even Chelsea has a significant amount of poverty on the World's End estate.

This article from the Guardian shows the change in central government funding by district between 2010 and 2015: https://www.theguardian.com/society/patrick-butler-cuts-blog/2015/jan/14/council-cuts-burden-falls-again-on-north-and-inner-cities.

As you can see the central government cuts fell disproportionately on the north and the inner cities including central London. Most of the suburbs and small town districts across the south only saw minor reductions in funding, interestingly 9/11 districts in Surrey actually saw funding increases (the only 9 councils in the country to receive funding increases over this period). The government has allowed local councils to keep more of the money raised locally in business rates and this should help mitigate the affect of cuts in areas with thriving commercial sectors e.g. most of central London but this isn't helpful at all to the Knowsleys or the Hartlepools.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/05/osborne-to-allow-local-councils-to-keep-26bn-raised-from-business-rates

[Silent Hunter]

That's pure politics. The areas that got more money vote Conservative. Not anything new; the Heart of Wales line survived the Beeching Axe because it ran through six marginal seats.

[parochial boy]

Yeah the target should be a government that prioritises giving tax cuts to rich people at the expense of everyone else. Not stirring up resentment against a specific region that has it's own major problems

[Lechasseur]

Income inequality isn't everything. Granted, I live in France's poorest (non-rural) region, but almost all of my better educated friends (me included) are either leaving the country or plan on leaving the country once they finish school (mostly to go to Belgium, Switzerland, Canada or Germany) because work here is incredibly hard to find and most of the jobs that do exist pay badly (I have a friend who's an IT engineer and who's planning on moving to Switzerland because in France he couldn't find anyone who would offer him a salary higher than 1400€/month). What's the point of income equality if everyone is going to be poor or unemployed (except for the elite who come out of the top schools, of course (if France has such a strong welfare state it's to buy social peace and allow the Parisian bourgeoisie to dominate and not because the French are so socialist like Scandinavians per say)?

Edit: I wrote this post because Audrey was comparing Inequality in the UK to Inequality in France. Sure, France is more equal but the huge flip side is it's very hard to succeed here if you're from the wrong family or wrong part of the country. And that's not due to a lack of social welfare, that's due to cultural issues and the mentality of the French elite (like most of France's problems; for example that's why so many French people pay to attend very expensive business or engineering schools while the public universities are almost free).

[Statilius the Epicurean]

This Roger Scruton business. Can someone explain to me why on earth Roger Scruton is the government's bloody housing advisor in the first place? Even just appointing him kind of shows the complete contempt which Tories have for housing policy.

[Slow Learner]

Funny to see Labour moderates attacking McDonnell for backing the tax cuts.

You wanted Labour to be more electable, did you not? Then I don't see why you're complaining.

[Silent Hunter]

If any backstop is "unless and until", what's stopping the EU from not agreeing a new FTA and waiting for a new UK government more inclined for EEA?

[Intell]

^^ come on intell you're better then that mate, We're both close to each ideologically, and I meant taxing wealthy people in London and surrounding towns (where there are many wealthy people) to invest in other regions in the UK...

---------
 Dawn --  I understand that, but I have to disagree, since the Tories came to power in 2010, there have been massive devastating cuts to public transports and public services in Plymouth and other parts of the west country.
Our bus system wasn't great but wasn't bad either, now it's awful, and your typical bus users are low income people, students and the elderly...

I just disagree that London is getting an unhelpful amount of investment. It's not, without the investments the poor of London would all be homeless. The London poor doesn't have it better than the poor of Cornwall, they arguably have it worse. Look at areas in East Ham, Islington and north Kensington.

[Silent Hunter]

Now that's going to be taken as a Brexit metaphor.

[PSOL]

Virgin Atlantic could face pilots' strike over benefits
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-virgin-atlantic-strike/virgin-atlantic-could-face-pilots-strike-over-benefits-idUSKCN1ND31K?il=0

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[Silent Hunter]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... I just want to stay in the shorter queue at passport control!

[DaWN]

Interview with Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn 'We Can't Stop Brexit'
If you could stop Brexit, would you?
JEREMY CORBYN: We can't stop it. The referendum took place. Article 50 has been triggered. What we can do is recognize the reasons why people voted Leave.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/interview-with-labour-leader-corbyn-we-can-t-stop-brexit-a-1237594.html#ref=rss

He's so utterly pathetic.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Corbyn is right about one thing, Brexit can't be stopped.  Not much else he's right about, but he's right about that as it would take every single EU government to agree to it at this stage and that's not happening.  The genie has left the bottle and it ain't Robin Williams.