Cincinatti Zoo officials shoot and kill gorilla after child falls into enclosure

[Joe Republic]

I believe the Zoo made the absolute right decision.  It was unclear what the gorilla would ultimately do to the child, so it was far more important to save the life of the child than the life of the gorilla, even though it is an endangered species.     

How so?  Human children aren't endangered.  And as dead0man would say, "darwin'd, lol".

When a 400-500 pound ape is dragging a toddler across a concrete floor, with the child's head  bouncing up and down on the concrete floor, yes, it is time to kill the ape and save the child.

That didn't happen, though.

[Joe Republic]

I forget that most people still believe that humans are an endangered species that need protecting.  Oh well.

[Joe Republic]

I forget that most people still believe that humans are an endangered species that need protecting.  Oh well.

A human life is more valuable than an ape life.

If you say so.

[Joe Republic]

I forget that most people still believe that humans are an endangered species that need protecting.  Oh well.

A human life is more valuable than an ape life.

If you say so.

You're welcome to die to save an ape, but most of us values ours, our families' and even stranger's lives above that of an ape. In fact even with your comment, if I had to shoot a rare ape to save your life, I would do so.

Pretty sure Joe's trolling you, he's too smart to actually believe a human life and a gorilla's life are of equal value.

You misunderstand me.  I never mentioned the "value" of either or any species, although I suppose making such comparisons is a very human thing to do.

My annoyance over this incident (and the response) comes more from humans once again displaying arrogance over our status as literally the master race, despite being - in effect - an invasive parasite.  But that's a discussion for elsewhere, least of all in a thread about a dead gorilla and some bratty kid who lived to tell the tale.

(Btw, I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian, nor even a depressed nihilist.  I'm a greedy, selfish human like everybody else. )

[Joe Republic]

I would really like to know from those who voted that the ape should not have been shot and killed value the life of an ape above that of a four year old human toddler.

This child is a typical four year old toddler who is curious about things around him. 

As it was the child was being violently dragged at high speed by a dangerous animal in the enclosure with his head banging up and down on the concrete floor.  It was a terrifying scene.  It would not have been much longer before the ape likely would have killed the child, and that is why the zoo officials took actions to kill the ape when they did, before the child was killed by the ape.

For the life of me, I cannot imagine why anyone would value the life of an ape over that of a human four year old toddler.

Accidents that kill young children happen all the time.  It's always tragic for the family, obviously.  But nonetheless, accidents they are.

I could elaborate further on why it's for the best that the human population is reduced to within sustainable levels, but I'm sure the pearl clutchers here will screech about our species' superior "value" once again.

[Joe Republic]

Yes, human life always takes precedence over animal life in any circumstance (literally normal).

Agree to disagree.

[Joe Republic]

That's the second time in this thread I've been accused of that.  No, I'm not trolling.

[Joe Republic]

Wtf?  I know you're a sensitive snowflake these days, but your flabbergasted tone here is arguably more strange than anything I've said here.

[Joe Republic]

Wtf?  I know you're a sensitive snowflake these days, but your flabbergasted tone here is arguably more strange than anything I've said here.

What?

I'm pretty sure most people would be equally shocked to hear someone argue that they'd rather see a human child die rather than a gorilla. At least I want to hope so.

I don't recall saying I'd rather see a child die.  But, those who obsess over valuing one sentient species over another tend to become confused and assume that must be the case.

You're still religious, correct?  That probably explains your confusion, and the obsession with a species' value.

[Joe Republic]

I don't recall saying I'd rather see a child die.

So you'd rather see the gorilla die? Because there was a choice to be made. That's the point.

Honestly, I don't overly care about this particular incident.  (I'm more concerned with why he was in a zoo, tbh.)  But it bred an interesting wider discussion.

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I don't "obsess" over it for the simple reason that I thought, until today, that nobody except a few creeps and mass-murderers would so frontally question the superior moral value of human life. Apparently I was wrong, unless you're in one of those two categories.

Bizarre and unnecessary ad hominem.

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I haven't been religious since I was 12 or 13. And what the hell is that "still" doing here?

K.  Sorry for the insult, I guess?  You just seem to delve into spiritual issues with the fervor of somebody who believes humans were created by some sort of god.  My mistake.

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Well, sorry to disappoint you, but again I'm pretty sure that the sanctity of human life is a principle that transcends differences in metaphysical beliefs.

I respect the arrogance of your position, but I did say "agree to disagree", did I not?

[Joe Republic]

Again though, regardless of how much you care, I'd still like an answer: If faced with that choice and no alternative option, which of the two beings's death would you rather be responsible for? A human child or a gorilla?

Neither, I suppose.  By the time I've finished being forced into your world of placing value in one sentient creature over another, events would probably have already taken over without me.

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That's not a position I'm willing to "agree to disagree" about.

Then I think you might need to have the phrase explained to you.

[Joe Republic]

Again though, regardless of how much you care, I'd still like an answer: If faced with that choice and no alternative option, which of the two beings's death would you rather be responsible for? A human child or a gorilla?

Neither, I suppose.  By the time I've finished being forced into your world of placing value in one sentient creature over another, events would probably have already taken over without me.

You realize that sometimes these choices have to be made in real life, right? It's pretty hilarious that you're pretending to be the wise, detached one in this discussion, all the while childishly refusing to choose in a very simple binary scenario.

Sigh.  I guess I'll just have to wait until one of these hypotheticals comes true, then I can cross that bridge when I get to it.  Satisfied?  (Probably not.)

Your position is not morally acceptable and as such I can't accept to just leave it there.

Why do I have to abide by your set of morals, random internet person?  That's rather authoritarian of you.


This disagreement is actually quite simple.  You have arbitrarily decided that humans have a value greater than any other species.  I reject that concept.  This isn't as complicated as you make it seem.

[Joe Republic]

I've answered your question as best I can.  You really don't have to be so melodramatic.  If this is really the most controversial opinion you've ever had to face, I sincerely hope you find yourself a nice, comfortable safe space somewhere, for your own sanity.

[Joe Republic]

However, I'm sure we can all agree that a child's life ought to be more valued than a guerrilla's except for Joe.

Well, it depends if their cause is one you agree with, no?

[Joe Republic]

If we can't agree as a society on which of those two lives we value most, that's a serious problem.

https://youtu.be/Wi9y5-Vo61w?t=45  [CAUTION: this video contains footage of a conservative politician.  DO NOT watch from inside your safe space.  May cause severe anxiety.]

Your obsession with the comparative value of entire species is a serious problem.

[Joe Republic]

If we can't agree as a society on which of those two lives we value most, that's a serious problem.

https://youtu.be/Wi9y5-Vo61w?t=45

Your obsession with the comparative value of entire species is a serious problem.

Quoting Ronald Reagan is not a good way to make me respect your "views" more.

Whoops, I forgot to include the #triggerwarning for you.  I've edited it in to my previous post; I just hope it can apply retroactively. 

And what's a "serious problem" is that apparently we still have creeps like you who only view humanity as a "species" whose population to control rather that as a community of actual people with basic rights and dignity.

Hilariously ineffective personal attacks aside, you should probably hurry back over to that other thread where your own views have been mercilessly mocked for three pages and counting.

Edit: never mind, I just saw you've already pathetically backed down.

[Joe Republic]

All these bizarre and improbable hypotheticals have got me wondering though... so here's a new one:

Koko the gorilla and [tw] Donald Trump are both drowning in a river.  You can only save one.  Which do you choose?