51st State? Not Puerto Rico

[Torie]

Long Island would be first out of New York long before upstate.

Ah - a new state that would start its life in bankruptcy.  Why not? 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

California's admission to the Union was way too rushed.

I agree, it should be returned to Mexico ASAP.

Wasn't what I meant, and I think you know it.  California got admitted as one whole State instead of as several States as part of Taylor's crazy scheme to avoid infighting over whether slave codes would be issued by Congress for the territories carved out of the land won from Mexico.  His solution was to admit California, Utah (which at that time included Nevada) and New Mexico (which at that time included Arizona) directly as States and thus bypass the territorial stage of government.  Utah had too many Mormons and New Mexico had too many Mexicans for Congress to admit them, but California had plenty of Protestant whites who had gone there for the gold rush.

[Hotblack Desiato]

Can we make upstate New York a state of it's own please? We'd no longer be tied to long island and New York City's leftist voters.

Wouldn't upstate New York still lean Democrat?

Yes, but it'd be more of a swing zone and we'd elect less left-wing people.

[Cincinnatus]

Can we make upstate New York a state of it's own please? We'd no longer be tied to long island and New York City's leftist voters.

Wouldn't upstate New York still lean Democrat?

Yes, but it'd be more of a swing zone and we'd elect less left-wing people.

County elections would be the same but, our electoral power would be diminished even though we would become swing [still lean democrat for Presidential].  Which of course means that our gains politically, will not balance out our loss financially/economically.

[Hotblack Desiato]

Can we make upstate New York a state of it's own please? We'd no longer be tied to long island and New York City's leftist voters.

Wouldn't upstate New York still lean Democrat?

Yes, but it'd be more of a swing zone and we'd elect less left-wing people.

County elections would be the same but, our electoral power would be diminished even though we would become swing [still lean democrat for Presidential].  Which of course means that our gains politically, will not balance out our loss financially/economically.

Electoral power? Upstate and Long Island would each get 2 new senators of their own. That means there'd be 4 people in the senate speaking for opinions of non-NYC new yorkers instead of just two senators that get elected by a majority-NYC/downstate electorate.

The is true for the short and medium term. I'll agree with you 100% on there but do not consider it as much of a bad thing as you do for the following reasons.

1) Having hypothetical states of Ontario and Long Island on their own would mean that those two areas would no longer be quite as dependent on New York City's prosperity for their tax bases. This enables more stable financial planning.
2) Without New York City's voters to vote for every hip liberal/green regulatory fad, there would be less regulation holding us back. This means that we'd go from being the second or third worst regulatory environment to merely being a state with pretty bad regulations.
3) Without NYC's dominance, voters in upstate and Long Island would be able to re-focus their state's economic agendas to fit them, instead of having to make all policy, planning and wealth go to enriching New York City.

Yes, it'd be a few decades of economic pain and severe economic contraction post-split, but it would be worth it in the long run. New York City's voters get their hip financial center, Upstate voters get to attempt to revive their industrial economy and Long island gets to use it's skilled labor to make itself rich.

[King]

It would be home to America's first gerrymandered Senate seats.

[Cincinnatus]

Can we make upstate New York a state of it's own please? We'd no longer be tied to long island and New York City's leftist voters.

Wouldn't upstate New York still lean Democrat?

Yes, but it'd be more of a swing zone and we'd elect less left-wing people.

County elections would be the same but, our electoral power would be diminished even though we would become swing [still lean democrat for Presidential].  Which of course means that our gains politically, will not balance out our loss financially/economically.

Electoral power? Upstate and Long Island would each get 2 new senators of their own. That means there'd be 4 people in the senate speaking for opinions of non-NYC new yorkers instead of just two senators that get elected by a majority-NYC/downstate electorate.

The is true for the short and medium term. I'll agree with you 100% on there but do not consider it as much of a bad thing as you do for the following reasons.

1) Having hypothetical states of Ontario and Long Island on their own would mean that those two areas would no longer be quite as dependent on New York City's prosperity for their tax bases. This enables more stable financial planning.
2) Without New York City's voters to vote for every hip liberal/green regulatory fad, there would be less regulation holding us back. This means that we'd go from being the second or third worst regulatory environment to merely being a state with pretty bad regulations.
3) Without NYC's dominance, voters in upstate and Long Island would be able to re-focus their state's economic agendas to fit them, instead of having to make all policy, planning and wealth go to enriching New York City.

Yes, it'd be a few decades of economic pain and severe economic contraction post-split, but it would be worth it in the long run. New York City's voters get their hip financial center, Upstate voters get to attempt to revive their industrial economy and Long island gets to use it's skilled labor to make itself rich.

Political power pertaining to the Presidential elections I was talking about.  The problem is that we loss revenue, yet the way to revitalize the industrial economy here it to reduce taxes and regulation.  Reducing taxes would further reduce revenue, which is cause for concern.  10-20 years of purposely drowning the economy involves quite a strong commitment to that outlook.  I wish we didn't have to deal with Governors who always focus on downstate, rather than revitalizing upstate.  Believe me, I live in a Town outside Niagara Falls.  I understand that the state ignores such an obvious tourist attraction.  Fortunately, the city finally got them to repave some streets, so at least some progress is being made

[Hatman 🍁]

Can we make upstate New York a state of it's own please? We'd no longer be tied to long island and New York City's leftist voters.

Wouldn't upstate New York still lean Democrat?

Yes, but it'd be more of a swing zone and we'd elect less left-wing people.

County elections would be the same but, our electoral power would be diminished even though we would become swing [still lean democrat for Presidential].  Which of course means that our gains politically, will not balance out our loss financially/economically.

Electoral power? Upstate and Long Island would each get 2 new senators of their own. That means there'd be 4 people in the senate speaking for opinions of non-NYC new yorkers instead of just two senators that get elected by a majority-NYC/downstate electorate.

The is true for the short and medium term. I'll agree with you 100% on there but do not consider it as much of a bad thing as you do for the following reasons.

1) Having hypothetical states of Ontario and Long Island on their own would mean that those two areas would no longer be quite as dependent on New York City's prosperity for their tax bases. This enables more stable financial planning.
2) Without New York City's voters to vote for every hip liberal/green regulatory fad, there would be less regulation holding us back. This means that we'd go from being the second or third worst regulatory environment to merely being a state with pretty bad regulations.
3) Without NYC's dominance, voters in upstate and Long Island would be able to re-focus their state's economic agendas to fit them, instead of having to make all policy, planning and wealth go to enriching New York City.

Yes, it'd be a few decades of economic pain and severe economic contraction post-split, but it would be worth it in the long run. New York City's voters get their hip financial center, Upstate voters get to attempt to revive their industrial economy and Long island gets to use it's skilled labor to make itself rich.

You would call the new state Ontario? Oh dear.

[muon2]

A strange pair of states they'd become:

The part without the Central Valley looks a lot like the southwestern part of the proposed state of Deseret.

California's admission to the Union was way too rushed.

Agreed, though it was more about creating a deal between North and South to divide the lands acquired from Mexico, than rushing to make it a state.

[dead0man]

California's admission to the Union was way too rushed.

I agree, it should be returned to Mexico ASAP.

Indeed.  Just imagine how prosperous California could be if Mexico City was still in charge or it.  Ugg...where would we get our winter fruit from?  I like strawberries in March at a reasonable price damn it! Hollywood would have set up shop somewhere else after getting the hell out of Jersey, maybe Oregon?  Instead of East vs West rap wars, it would be North East vs Dirty South.  Other than that, I don't see much difference.


edit-just to be clear that last line wasn't serious

[patrick1]

1) Having hypothetical states of Ontario and Long Island on their own would mean that those two areas would no longer be quite as dependent on New York City's prosperity for their tax bases. This enables more stable financial planning.

Long Island pays a lot more to Albany than it gets back and so they are not dependent on NYC's largesse. TBS, I do not support any secession plans.

[Antonio the Sixth]

California should most certainly be split in several States.

[Hotblack Desiato]

Can we make upstate New York a state of it's own please? We'd no longer be tied to long island and New York City's leftist voters.

Wouldn't upstate New York still lean Democrat?

Yes, but it'd be more of a swing zone and we'd elect less left-wing people.

County elections would be the same but, our electoral power would be diminished even though we would become swing [still lean democrat for Presidential].  Which of course means that our gains politically, will not balance out our loss financially/economically.

Electoral power? Upstate and Long Island would each get 2 new senators of their own. That means there'd be 4 people in the senate speaking for opinions of non-NYC new yorkers instead of just two senators that get elected by a majority-NYC/downstate electorate.

The is true for the short and medium term. I'll agree with you 100% on there but do not consider it as much of a bad thing as you do for the following reasons.

1) Having hypothetical states of Ontario and Long Island on their own would mean that those two areas would no longer be quite as dependent on New York City's prosperity for their tax bases. This enables more stable financial planning.
2) Without New York City's voters to vote for every hip liberal/green regulatory fad, there would be less regulation holding us back. This means that we'd go from being the second or third worst regulatory environment to merely being a state with pretty bad regulations.
3) Without NYC's dominance, voters in upstate and Long Island would be able to re-focus their state's economic agendas to fit them, instead of having to make all policy, planning and wealth go to enriching New York City.

Yes, it'd be a few decades of economic pain and severe economic contraction post-split, but it would be worth it in the long run. New York City's voters get their hip financial center, Upstate voters get to attempt to revive their industrial economy and Long island gets to use it's skilled labor to make itself rich.

You would call the new state Ontario? Oh dear.

I picked that name specifically to outrage Canadians and because I'm a bad person.

[DrScholl]

Leave the union alone, we have enough division as it is anyway, we don't need a ton of states added to the union who are going to be mismanaged just like the current ones. Puerto Rico or any other territory who considers statehood should be the only states added to the union.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

California's admission to the Union was way too rushed.

I agree, it should be returned to Mexico ASAP.

No. We won California fair and square as spoils of war.

Warmonger.

[CatoMinor]

Ugg...where would we get our winter fruit from?  I like strawberries in March at a reasonable price damn it!

Texas

[King]

I think the highlighted portion of muon's sig should become a state.

[minionofmidas]

I think the highlighted portion of muon's sig should become a state.

And the enclosed non-highlighted portion another one (which would be in two parts).

[RI]

It would be home to America's first gerrymandered Senate seats.

First? lol. Several Western and Midwestern states were created just for that purpose. See the two Dakotas as exhibit A.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

California's admission to the Union was way too rushed.

I agree, it should be returned to Mexico ASAP.

No. We won California fair and square as spoils of war.

Warmonger.

Did you not read my post regarding of had I been in congress I would've opposed this war.

[King]

It would be home to America's first gerrymandered Senate seats.

First? lol. Several Western and Midwestern states were created just for that purpose. See the two Dakotas as exhibit A.

Yes, but they didn't have any more than general understanding of the demographics.  A California division would probably cut through neighborhoods.