Which modern country is the successor of the Roman Empire? (user search)
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  Which modern country is the successor of the Roman Empire? (search mode)
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Question: Since another thread created this discussion, we can vote here: Which modern country is the successor of the Roman Empire?
#1
Italy
 
#2
Vatican
 
#3
Turkey
 
#4
Greece
 
#5
Germany
 
#6
Russia
 
#7
Finland
 
#8
USA
 
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Total Voters: 45

Author Topic: Which modern country is the successor of the Roman Empire?  (Read 5091 times)
palandio
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Posts: 1,027


« on: February 22, 2023, 01:04:58 PM »

I sometimes wonder why Western Europe (and its own colonial “offspring”) revere the Roman Empire / Western Roman Empire so much instead of other civilizations?

It made political sense why the Pope and Charlemagne tried to say they were the successor. But aside from the Catholic Church connection, what’s the point of wanting that link?

Ancient Egypt is more impressive. Greek City-states gave more to think about, and Alexander’s conquest more to base ambitions on. The medieval kingdoms had some impressive feats. The colonial kingdoms changed the world even more than Alexander, even if they weren’t a one-person show as much. You could argue for the influence of the the cumulative successions of Persian empires, and definitely for those of the Fertile Crescent. There’s even the lasting cultural legacy of the Germanic tribes, and the Vikings who settled even into the Mediterranean, France, and into Russia. The Italian renaissance city-states for their own cultural heritage in shaping society’s arts and philosophies. There’s even the monumental French Revolution and Napoleon. Germany’s spread of Protestantism, and modern bureaucracy. The semi-Democratic Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth being as foundational to modern democracy as the UK and the Magna Carta. The might and influence of the Czars. Why Rome?
The Latin alphabet.
Latin as the primary language of science etc. until modernity.
The Vulgar Latin-derived Romance languages.
Roman law as the base of the more concrete French civil code and of the more abstract German BGB.
Rome and Latin as the transmitter of achievements from other civilizations (Greek and Israelitic and via Greece also Persian and Babylonian).
Roman art and architecture as the source of renaissance, classicism, etc.

Also most parts of Western Europe were at some point part of the Roman Empire, at least partially, whereas everything that came after can be clearly associated to certain nations. The point is that the Roman Empire comes closest to the idea of an ancient pan-European superpower before everything disintegrated into the predecessors of modern nations. (A concept that is of course not true in the same sense as for e.g. China.) You don't revere another country that still exists in the same way as you revere the entity that brought civilization to you.

The Catholic Church connection is very important because the Catholic Church played a key role in most aspects of public life and civilization until modern times.

The proposals you name:
Ancient Egypt: Impressive, but what does it have to do with us?
Greek Philosophy: Certainly, but historically a lot of it came to us via Rome.
Alexander's conquest: He didn't conquer Western Europe. His importance for us lies more in the spread of Greek language and civilization and thereby ultimately laying the foundation of Eastern Rome.
The medieval kingdoms after Charlemagne are more associated to single nations and not to (Western) Europe as a whole.
Colonial empires: same.
Persia, Babylon, Assur, etc.: The same that holds for Greece but even more extreme, because the transmission chain is even longer.
At least in Western Europe it is generally perceived that the Romans brought civilization, whereas the image of Germanic tribes and Vikings as uncultured Barbarians is probably not entirely fair, but still their legacy is rather the transformation, adaption and sometimes reinvigoration of existing civilizational achievements.
Italian Renaissance: First, it's distinctly Italian and second, part of its historical achievement is exactly the rediscovery of Roman and Ancient Greek civilization.
French Revolution and Napoleon: Extraordinarily important and with a lasting effect on the whole continent, and at least in Germany it takes a very prominent place e.g. in school curricula, more prominent than e.g. the preceding American Revolution. At the same time it's clearly not supra-national in origin, but very French, too recent and too French for most outside France, not only nationalists and anti-liberals.
Similar for Germany, but even more pronounced.
Protestantism: The Catholic Church connection is already in the name.
Poland: Very Polish and underrated in current Western-centric historical ideographies.
UK: Well, there are reasons why they speak of the continent and don't include themselves and we reciprocate.
The Czars: For modern Western European history mostly important as a prelude/sideshow.
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