2020 Census and Redistricting Thread: Alabama

[Oryxslayer]

The plaintiffs prefer map 1 over map 3, why?   I would think the judges would prefer map 3 since it has 6 county splits instead of 7 like map 1.

All the plaintiffs object to using map 2.  The judges don't disagree, that one seems to be out.

Main Milligan Plaintiffs want Map 1 (cause it resembles their plan) and are fine with map 3. Oppose Map 2.

Castor Plaintiffs (joined to the Milligan suit) are okay with map 1 or 3. Oppose Map 2.

Singleton Plaintiffs want Map 3 and are opposed to Map 1. The core principle of the separate Singleton suit is respect for county and community lines (even though the secret goal has failed), which they say needs the 6 cuts and no more. Singleton technically has no power here, but all parties want a resolution that allows for a separate settlement of their case. 

[Yellowhammer]

Another affirmative action congressman coming for Alabama it seems.

Alabama dems have 8 state senate seats, a fair and compact map would leave them with 4.
28 house seats, with a fair map they would only have 16-20.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Another affirmative action congressman coming for Alabama it seems.

Alabama dems have 8 state senate seats, a fair and compact map would leave them with 4.
28 house seats, with a fair map they would only have 16-20.

Yes reducing you’re opponents to about a 1/3 of their actual support is a sane and fair demand

[Nyvin]

Another affirmative action congressman coming for Alabama it seems.

Alabama dems have 8 state senate seats, a fair and compact map would leave them with 4.
28 house seats, with a fair map they would only have 16-20.

4 Senate Seats?!?  Birmingham alone should be 3, those districts are all close to 60% black or even above that in the case of SD-20.  Are you splitting the city five ways or something?

Montgomery and Mobile Counties should both have Black majority districts too (1 each) especially with how concentrated the minority populations are.  They'd have to be intentional cracked to not have them.

On top of that at "least" two black rural districts should come naturally too, it's not like they need any special tentacles or county splits to make them happen.

This doesn't even touch how Republicans gerrymandered Madison County just perfectly to not have any D seats.

[Yellowhammer]

Another affirmative action congressman coming for Alabama it seems.

Alabama dems have 8 state senate seats, a fair and compact map would leave them with 4.
28 house seats, with a fair map they would only have 16-20.

4 Senate Seats?!?  Birmingham alone should be 3, those districts are all close to 60% black or even above that in the case of SD-20.  Are you splitting the city five ways or something?

Montgomery and Mobile Counties should both have Black majority districts too (1 each) especially with how concentrated the minority populations are.  They'd have to be intentional cracked to not have them.

On top of that at "least" two black rural districts should come naturally too, it's not like they need any special tentacles or county splits to make them happen.

This doesn't even touch how Republicans gerrymandered Madison County just perfectly to not have any D seats.

Birmingham should only have 2 safe D state senate seats, it doesn't make any sense to do 3 unless you're consciously using race-based gerrymandering like what we have now to unnaturally minimize white Republican representation in favor of black.
This requires splitting cleanly splitting Bham into two districts, one north-eastern district which also includes Center Point and the white liberal parts of the city, and one southwestern which includes Pleasant Grove, 90% of Bessemer and a few other towns.
You have to split Birmingham three ways and dilute strongly white, republican areas in order to unfairly create more democratic districts.

Then you have one black district which includes Dallas, Lowndes, and the black-majority part of Montgomery. Then you have one-more black majority seat which includes most of the rest of the black belt, perhaps with a sliver of tuscaloosa county, which comes out as roughly even in partisanship.

Mobile County doesn't need a black-majority seat, if the black community needs a black senator (since it seems racial nationalism is good when minorities do it), they should get behind a black Republican. Madison County, which is less than a quarter black, obviously doesn't either. There's your 4 seats (3 in a good republican year, maybe 5 or 6 in a good democratic year).

[Nyvin]

Another affirmative action congressman coming for Alabama it seems.

Alabama dems have 8 state senate seats, a fair and compact map would leave them with 4.
28 house seats, with a fair map they would only have 16-20.

4 Senate Seats?!?  Birmingham alone should be 3, those districts are all close to 60% black or even above that in the case of SD-20.  Are you splitting the city five ways or something?

Montgomery and Mobile Counties should both have Black majority districts too (1 each) especially with how concentrated the minority populations are.  They'd have to be intentional cracked to not have them.

On top of that at "least" two black rural districts should come naturally too, it's not like they need any special tentacles or county splits to make them happen.

This doesn't even touch how Republicans gerrymandered Madison County just perfectly to not have any D seats.

Birmingham should only have 2 safe D state senate seats, it doesn't make any sense to do 3 unless you're consciously using race-based gerrymandering like what we have now to unnaturally minimize white Republican representation in favor of black.
This requires splitting cleanly splitting Bham into two districts, one north-eastern district which also includes Center Point and the white liberal parts of the city, and one southwestern which includes Pleasant Grove, 90% of Bessemer and a few other towns.
You have to split Birmingham three ways and dilute strongly white, republican areas in order to unfairly create more democratic districts.

Then you have one black district which includes Dallas, Lowndes, and the black-majority part of Montgomery. Then you have one-more black majority seat which includes most of the rest of the black belt, perhaps with a sliver of tuscaloosa county, which comes out as roughly even in partisanship.

Mobile County doesn't need a black-majority seat, if the black community needs a black senator (since it seems racial nationalism is good when minorities do it), they should get behind a black Republican. Madison County, which is less than a quarter black, obviously doesn't either. There's your 4 seats (3 in a good republican year, maybe 5 or 6 in a good democratic year).

Then you aren't really making a "fair and compact map" since the City of Mobile has well over a Senate seat worth of population and would deserve it's own senator, same would really go for Tuscaloosa to some degree, although some rural population is needed and would be a swing seat more than anything.  Huntsville has crazy borders but making a "fair and compact" Dem seat in the city limits is very easy.  

One of the three rural seats can probably be eliminated but there should be one in the east and one in the west, both very compact.

If all you're doing is drawing the lines to the benefit of Republicans while ignoring municipal lines, then there's nothing "fair and compact" about that.

[Yellowhammer]

Another affirmative action congressman coming for Alabama it seems.

Alabama dems have 8 state senate seats, a fair and compact map would leave them with 4.
28 house seats, with a fair map they would only have 16-20.

4 Senate Seats?!?  Birmingham alone should be 3, those districts are all close to 60% black or even above that in the case of SD-20.  Are you splitting the city five ways or something?

Montgomery and Mobile Counties should both have Black majority districts too (1 each) especially with how concentrated the minority populations are.  They'd have to be intentional cracked to not have them.

On top of that at "least" two black rural districts should come naturally too, it's not like they need any special tentacles or county splits to make them happen.

This doesn't even touch how Republicans gerrymandered Madison County just perfectly to not have any D seats.

Birmingham should only have 2 safe D state senate seats, it doesn't make any sense to do 3 unless you're consciously using race-based gerrymandering like what we have now to unnaturally minimize white Republican representation in favor of black.
This requires splitting cleanly splitting Bham into two districts, one north-eastern district which also includes Center Point and the white liberal parts of the city, and one southwestern which includes Pleasant Grove, 90% of Bessemer and a few other towns.
You have to split Birmingham three ways and dilute strongly white, republican areas in order to unfairly create more democratic districts.

Then you have one black district which includes Dallas, Lowndes, and the black-majority part of Montgomery. Then you have one-more black majority seat which includes most of the rest of the black belt, perhaps with a sliver of tuscaloosa county, which comes out as roughly even in partisanship.

Mobile County doesn't need a black-majority seat, if the black community needs a black senator (since it seems racial nationalism is good when minorities do it), they should get behind a black Republican. Madison County, which is less than a quarter black, obviously doesn't either. There's your 4 seats (3 in a good republican year, maybe 5 or 6 in a good democratic year).

Then you aren't really making a "fair and compact map" since the City of Mobile has well over a Senate seat worth of population and would deserve it's own senator, same would really go for Tuscaloosa to some degree, although some rural population is needed and would be a swing seat more than anything.  Huntsville has crazy borders but making a "fair and compact" Dem seat in the city limits is very easy.  

One of the three rural seats can probably be eliminated but there should be one in the east and one in the west, both very compact.

If all you're doing is drawing the lines to the benefit of Republicans while ignoring municipal lines, then there's nothing "fair and compact" about that.

The Mobile senate seats I drew make more sense then they're drawn currently, with the black seat spanning across the river into Baldwin county. And they're all at least likely R. Mobile is a solidly Republican county, there's no reason democrats need to be given a freebie state senate there just because it's feasible.

There isn't anything fair about using racial quotas to maximize democratic officeholders in an overwhelmingly republican state. There's no self-evident universal principle that there needs to be any blue districts drawn, even giving the democrats 3 or 4 is practically charity.

[patzer]

There isn't anything fair about using racial quotas to maximize democratic officeholders in an overwhelmingly republican state. There's no self-evident universal principle that there needs to be any blue districts drawn, even giving the democrats 3 or 4 is practically charity.

District compactness is a self evident principle that requires drawing blue districts- to remove all Democratic-leaning seats you would have to split Birmingham about six ways and pair each slice with a lot of rural areas, which is obviously not a natural way to draw the map.

[Nyvin]

The Mobile senate seats I drew make more sense then they're drawn currently, with the black seat spanning across the river into Baldwin county. And they're all at least likely R. Mobile is a solidly Republican county, there's no reason democrats need to be given a freebie state senate there just because it's feasible.

There isn't anything fair about using racial quotas to maximize democratic officeholders in an overwhelmingly republican state. There's no self-evident universal principle that there needs to be any blue districts drawn, even giving the democrats 3 or 4 is practically charity.

There is no reason to span them across the river, I never suggested that and don't know why the current map does.  

Mobile county voted 43% Biden.  That's not solidly Republican and certainly if going by proportionality it deserves one Dem Senate seat that's extremely easy to draw and very compact, and respects city limits.

Literally the only possible reason you don't want it to happen is to benefit Republicans, that's it.   You aren't making "fair and compact" districts at all.

[GALeftist]

Just ignore Yellowhammer, he's either a fascist or too dull to understand the words he's saying

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I drew these both racially and partisan blind.

This is a compact district completely within Mobile:



It's a Biden+35 seat. No map that eliminates any Biden districts in Mobile would be "fair" or "compact". It would also require at least a 3-way split. Also the Mobile suburb of Pritchard is predominately black, it doesn't need to be included in a fully Mobile-based district but if Mobile is split it'll have to go in one of the districts, thus making things harder.

And here's three Biden seats entirely within Jefferson County:

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Greater Birmingham should only have 2 safe R state senate seats, it doesn't make any sense to do 4 unless you're consciously using race-based gerrymandering like what we have now to unnaturally minimize black Democratic representation in favor of white.
You have to split Jefferson County seven ways and dilute strongly black, democratic areas in order to unfairly create more republican districts.

Montgomery County doesn't need a white-majority seat, if the white community needs a white senator (since it seems racial nationalism is good when majorities do it), they should get behind a white Democrat.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

I drew these both racially and partisan blind.

This is a compact district completely within Mobile:



It's a Biden+35 seat. No map that eliminates any Biden districts in Mobile would be "fair" or "compact". It would also require at least a 3-way split. Also the Mobile suburb of Pritchard is predominately black, it doesn't need to be included in a fully Mobile-based district but if Mobile is split it'll have to go in one of the districts, thus making things harder.

And here's three Biden seats entirely within Jefferson County:

It’s very obvious the person you’re arguing against doesn’t care about facts or reason

[MaxQue]

Another affirmative action congressman coming for Alabama it seems.

Alabama dems have 8 state senate seats, a fair and compact map would leave them with 4.
28 house seats, with a fair map they would only have 16-20.

4 Senate Seats?!?  Birmingham alone should be 3, those districts are all close to 60% black or even above that in the case of SD-20.  Are you splitting the city five ways or something?

Montgomery and Mobile Counties should both have Black majority districts too (1 each) especially with how concentrated the minority populations are.  They'd have to be intentional cracked to not have them.

On top of that at "least" two black rural districts should come naturally too, it's not like they need any special tentacles or county splits to make them happen.

This doesn't even touch how Republicans gerrymandered Madison County just perfectly to not have any D seats.

Birmingham should only have 2 safe D state senate seats, it doesn't make any sense to do 3 unless you're consciously using race-based gerrymandering like what we have now to unnaturally minimize white Republican representation in favor of black.
This requires splitting cleanly splitting Bham into two districts, one north-eastern district which also includes Center Point and the white liberal parts of the city, and one southwestern which includes Pleasant Grove, 90% of Bessemer and a few other towns.
You have to split Birmingham three ways and dilute strongly white, republican areas in order to unfairly create more democratic districts.

Then you have one black district which includes Dallas, Lowndes, and the black-majority part of Montgomery. Then you have one-more black majority seat which includes most of the rest of the black belt, perhaps with a sliver of tuscaloosa county, which comes out as roughly even in partisanship.

Mobile County doesn't need a black-majority seat, if the black community needs a black senator (since it seems racial nationalism is good when minorities do it), they should get behind a black Republican. Madison County, which is less than a quarter black, obviously doesn't either. There's your 4 seats (3 in a good republican year, maybe 5 or 6 in a good democratic year).

Then you aren't really making a "fair and compact map" since the City of Mobile has well over a Senate seat worth of population and would deserve it's own senator, same would really go for Tuscaloosa to some degree, although some rural population is needed and would be a swing seat more than anything.  Huntsville has crazy borders but making a "fair and compact" Dem seat in the city limits is very easy.  

One of the three rural seats can probably be eliminated but there should be one in the east and one in the west, both very compact.

If all you're doing is drawing the lines to the benefit of Republicans while ignoring municipal lines, then there's nothing "fair and compact" about that.

The Mobile senate seats I drew make more sense then they're drawn currently, with the black seat spanning across the river into Baldwin county. And they're all at least likely R. Mobile is a solidly Republican county, there's no reason democrats need to be given a freebie state senate there just because it's feasible.

There isn't anything fair about using racial quotas to maximize democratic officeholders in an overwhelmingly republican state. There's no self-evident universal principle that there needs to be any blue districts drawn, even giving the democrats 3 or 4 is practically charity.

I think you missed the day where black people stopped counting as 0.6 persons.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://davesredistricting.org/maps#viewmap::8fa747c0-fc55-4376-8963-9913a4cd5444
Alabama senate D gerrymander
14/35 Biden seats

[ProgressiveModerate]

https://davesredistricting.org/maps#viewmap::8fa747c0-fc55-4376-8963-9913a4cd5444
Alabama senate D gerrymander
14/35 Biden seats

I got majority Biden a while back it was crazy. Lemme see if I can find it.

[Yellowhammer]

I drew these both racially and partisan blind.

This is a compact district completely within Mobile:



It's a Biden+35 seat. No map that eliminates any Biden districts in Mobile would be "fair" or "compact". It would also require at least a 3-way split. Also the Mobile suburb of Pritchard is predominately black, it doesn't need to be included in a fully Mobile-based district but if Mobile is split it'll have to go in one of the districts, thus making things harder.

And here's three Biden seats entirely within Jefferson County:

I never said you couldn't draw a safe dem seat in Mobile county, but's still unfair to do so. You can easily base 3 Likely to Safe R, Ivey +20 seats out of Mobile county, there isn't any reason not to unless you are trying to minimize republican representation in one of the reddest states in the country.
Democrats will never have any power in Alabama anyway, what's the difference between 8 and 4 seats in a 35-seat state senate?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I drew these both racially and partisan blind.

This is a compact district completely within Mobile:



It's a Biden+35 seat. No map that eliminates any Biden districts in Mobile would be "fair" or "compact". It would also require at least a 3-way split. Also the Mobile suburb of Pritchard is predominately black, it doesn't need to be included in a fully Mobile-based district but if Mobile is split it'll have to go in one of the districts, thus making things harder.

And here's three Biden seats entirely within Jefferson County:

I never said you couldn't draw a safe dem seat in Mobile county, but's still unfair to do so. You can easily base 3 Likely to Safe R, Ivey +20 seats out of Mobile county, there isn't any reason not to unless you are trying to minimize republican representation in one of the reddest states in the country.
Democrats will never have any power in Alabama anyway, what's the difference between 8 and 4 seats in a 35-seat state senate?

You specifically said a "fair and compact map." What you are describing is not more compact than a district fully in Mobile.

[Farmlands]

The Mobile senate seats I drew make more sense then they're drawn currently, with the black seat spanning across the river into Baldwin county. And they're all at least likely R. Mobile is a solidly Republican county, there's no reason democrats need to be given a freebie state senate there just because it's feasible.

There isn't anything fair about using racial quotas to maximize democratic officeholders in an overwhelmingly republican state. There's no self-evident universal principle that there needs to be any blue districts drawn, even giving the democrats 3 or 4 is practically charity.

There is no reason to span them across the river, I never suggested that and don't know why the current map does.  

Mobile county voted 43% Biden.  That's not solidly Republican and certainly if going by proportionality it deserves one Dem Senate seat that's extremely easy to draw and very compact, and respects city limits.

Literally the only possible reason you don't want it to happen is to benefit Republicans, that's it.   You aren't making "fair and compact" districts at all.

Benefitting republicans and disadvantaging democrats is what redistricting fairness *means.* The fairest map gives the least representation to the political left, since the political left is unfair.

Maybe this will actually get some people to realize what a fundamentally unserious discussion this is or can be held on this issue with you. Or maybe still not...

[Yellowhammer]

I drew these both racially and partisan blind.

This is a compact district completely within Mobile:



It's a Biden+35 seat. No map that eliminates any Biden districts in Mobile would be "fair" or "compact". It would also require at least a 3-way split. Also the Mobile suburb of Pritchard is predominately black, it doesn't need to be included in a fully Mobile-based district but if Mobile is split it'll have to go in one of the districts, thus making things harder.

And here's three Biden seats entirely within Jefferson County:

I never said you couldn't draw a safe dem seat in Mobile county, but's still unfair to do so. You can easily base 3 Likely to Safe R, Ivey +20 seats out of Mobile county, there isn't any reason not to unless you are trying to minimize republican representation in one of the reddest states in the country.
Democrats will never have any power in Alabama anyway, what's the difference between 8 and 4 seats in a 35-seat state senate?

You specifically said a "fair and compact map." What you are describing is not more compact than a district fully in Mobile.

The one I drew isn't significantly less compact than this, it just evenly splits the black precincts three ways.
I don't see how that's would be any worse or more "unfair" than the Jefferson county map you posted that lumps the 80% republican, white exurban and rural areas with parts of Birmingham for the sake of maximizing democratic districts.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I drew these both racially and partisan blind.

This is a compact district completely within Mobile:



It's a Biden+35 seat. No map that eliminates any Biden districts in Mobile would be "fair" or "compact". It would also require at least a 3-way split. Also the Mobile suburb of Pritchard is predominately black, it doesn't need to be included in a fully Mobile-based district but if Mobile is split it'll have to go in one of the districts, thus making things harder.

And here's three Biden seats entirely within Jefferson County:

I never said you couldn't draw a safe dem seat in Mobile county, but's still unfair to do so. You can easily base 3 Likely to Safe R, Ivey +20 seats out of Mobile county, there isn't any reason not to unless you are trying to minimize republican representation in one of the reddest states in the country.
Democrats will never have any power in Alabama anyway, what's the difference between 8 and 4 seats in a 35-seat state senate?

You specifically said a "fair and compact map." What you are describing is not more compact than a district fully in Mobile.

The one I drew isn't significantly less compact than this, it just evenly splits the black precincts three ways.
I don't see how that's would be any worse or more "unfair" than the Jefferson county map you posted that lumps the 80% republican, white exurban and rural areas with parts of Birmingham for the sake of maximizing democratic districts.

I drew that map without looking at the partisan or racial stats. Something your map clearly didn't do.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

You specifically said a "fair and compact map." What you are describing is not more compact than a district fully in Mobile.

The one I drew isn't significantly less compact than this, it just evenly splits the black precincts three ways.
I don't see how that's would be any worse or more "unfair" than the Jefferson county map you posted that lumps the 80% republican, white exurban and rural areas with parts of Birmingham for the sake of maximizing democratic districts.

https://davesredistricting.org/maps#viewmap::d6b3fe86-d5e1-48f0-bf04-5054e23d5804
what do you make of this? I sought to minimize county splits.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

All y’all trying to appease the guy who wants democrats, who gain around 35%, to just 13%. It’s irrational and nonsensical so trying to work to create a map that’s anything other then an aggressive Republican gerrymander will be unacceptable

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

All y’all trying to appease the guy who wants democrats, who gain around 35%, to just 13%. It’s irrational and nonsensical so trying to work to create a map that’s anything other then an aggressive Republican gerrymander will be unacceptable

I am not trying to "appease" him, though I see where the impression might come from. I made a map that more than hewed to his stated political preferences. It would be fun to see what he would feel about it.

[Yellowhammer]

You specifically said a "fair and compact map." What you are describing is not more compact than a district fully in Mobile.

The one I drew isn't significantly less compact than this, it just evenly splits the black precincts three ways.
I don't see how that's would be any worse or more "unfair" than the Jefferson county map you posted that lumps the 80% republican, white exurban and rural areas with parts of Birmingham for the sake of maximizing democratic districts.

https://davesredistricting.org/maps#viewmap::d6b3fe86-d5e1-48f0-bf04-5054e23d5804
what do you make of this? I sought to minimize county splits.

It's quite similar to how I drew mine, except around Birmigham and Montgomery whew I drew 2 and 1 black seats supermajority seats respectively. The Mobile area is virtually identical except that the northern district includes washington county. The Tennessee valley area is pretty much the same on my map as well, with the black areas of huntsville placed with Jackson county.