SA/A/D/SD

[Hatman 🍁]

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

I strongly agree in democracy

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

I strongly agree in democracy

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.

Disagree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.

Generally, but this doesn't cover rape.

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.

Disagree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.

Somewhat agree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.

Agree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.

Strongy Disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.

Sounds like an interesting idea. May be a waste though, what would they do?

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.

Well, I believe it should be eliminated

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.

Seriously?

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.

Gun purchases, yes for the others no

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.

Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.

SD

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.

Yes, it should be abolished.

[Hatman 🍁]

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.

Generally, but this doesn't cover rape.

Well, clearly, any rapist is not doing unto his rapee as he would have them to do him.

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You support letting 5 year olds vote?

If a five year old wants to vote, I dont see why not. They aren't going to though, so there is no problems.

As for the Golden rul question, Im not sure how a rapist would feel about being raped- especially by the woman he is raping.  My feeling is some wouldnt mind.

[Hatman 🍁]

You guys are really worried about nothing.

[Hatman 🍁]

You guys are really worried about nothing.

Letting five year olds vote is a bad idea - I don't let bad ideas stand without being refuted by sound reason, otherwise more people are likely to listen to them. You're honestly too smart to think that five year olds should be allowed to vote.

I honestly don't see the problem. Five year olds will not vote, anyways. There will of course be laws (if they dont already exist) against parents forcing their children to vote they way they want to. There will be so few five year olds voting that it would not effect the results. In fact, nothing bad could come of it, you're just worried about nothing. Think outside the box.  Of course if this were to happen, and there were problems with it (that could not be fixed  by strict laws) then I will say the voting age should still be very low.

[Hatman 🍁]

I honestly don't see the problem. Five year olds will not vote, anyways. There will of course be laws (if they dont already exist) against parents forcing their children to vote they way they want to. There will be so few five year olds voting that it would not effect the results. In fact, nothing bad could come of it, you're just worried about nothing. Think outside the box.  Of course if this were to happen, and there were problems with it (that could not be fixed  by strict laws) then I will say the voting age should still be very low.

Any laws preventing such abuse wouldn't be effective

I'm not so sure about that.  The people at the polling stations can enforce and heavily fine any offenders.

[Hatman 🍁]

When I was 5, I didn't know what the word "politics" really meant; when I was 10, I just supported whoever my parents were rooting for during the TV coverage.  The voting age should be, at minimum, 14, but 16 is better.

All the more reason to support this, as 5 year olds wont vote anyways. And, people vote for who their family votes for all the time, no matter what your age is. That's a terrible argument!

[Hatman 🍁]

All the more reason to support this, as 5 year olds wont vote anyways.

A 5-year old may vote if told to do so by the parent.

Well, any forced voting would be prevented with strict laws, I've already covered this.

[Hatman 🍁]

How exactly would you stop parents from forcing 5 year olds to vote?  Wouldn't it make more sense to just have a voting age?

Any forcing they do in the vicinity of the polling area would be restricted of course. It may make more sense to have a voting age, but I don't believe it is what democracy is about.

[Hatman 🍁]

Mother to child: "Honey, if you vote for George Bush, I'll give you a piece of candy."
Father to child: "And if you vote for John Kerry, I'll take away your computer for a week."

This activity would be fined.

[Hatman 🍁]

Mother to child: "Honey, if you vote for George Bush, I'll give you a piece of candy."
Father to child: "And if you vote for John Kerry, I'll take away your computer for a week."

This activity would be fined.

How exactly would you find out about it?  Putting security cameras in every home?

Well, this kind of activity would most likely happen at the polling station.

[Hatman 🍁]

Mother to child: "Honey, if you vote for George Bush, I'll give you a piece of candy."
Father to child: "And if you vote for John Kerry, I'll take away your computer for a week."

This activity would be fined.

How exactly would you find out about it?  Putting security cameras in every home?

Well, this kind of activity would most likely happen at the polling station.

Why?  If they knew that it would be monitored at the polling station, couldn't the parents just do it at home before leaving for the polling station?

Of couse, but we are talking about 5 year olds here, they need to be reminded. But I degress, these are the kinds of arguments people brought up during the woman's suffrage movement.

[Hatman 🍁]

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Disagree

Gabu! You've become a Conservative! This is, you know unconstitutional?

[Hatman 🍁]

Mother to child: "Honey, if you vote for George Bush, I'll give you a piece of candy."
Father to child: "And if you vote for John Kerry, I'll take away your computer for a week."

This activity would be fined.

How exactly would you find out about it?  Putting security cameras in every home?

Well, this kind of activity would most likely happen at the polling station.

Why?  If they knew that it would be monitored at the polling station, couldn't the parents just do it at home before leaving for the polling station?

Of couse, but we are talking about 5 year olds here, they need to be reminded. But I degress, these are the kinds of arguments people brought up during the woman's suffrage movement.

That's a bad comparison.  There's nothing inherent in women that would make them less able than men to make up their own minds.  There is, however, something inherent in little kids that would make them less able than adults to make up their own minds.  At five years old, there are very, very few people that would even understand what politics is, let alone understand it enough to make an informed decision.  It's much more likely that they'd just think it's a silly, fun game that Daddy gave you where you have to put the X beside the right name on a sheet of paper.

If you're honestly declaring an equivalence between the intelligence level of adult women and that of little kids by making your argument that this is what was said about women's suffrage, don't you think that's a little insulting to women?

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Disagree

Gabu! You've become a Conservative! This is, you know unconstitutional?

I don't think people in jail should be able to vote.  Once they're out, I'm leaning towards fully restoring their full voting rights, but I think that if you do a crime, and hurt society as a byproduct, you should be given punishment, and one of the punishments should be forfeiting your ability to vote (and thereby have a further impact on society) while in prison.

Whether or not it's constitutional is entirely irrelevant, given that this is simply asking what you feel should be the case.

Voting is a right, not a privelege. It is a fundemental right. This is my belief, and is why I believe everyone should be able to vote.

When women were given the right to vote, many people used the very same arguments you are using. I am not saying they were right, of course. I find it very offensive that you would accuse me of such things as comparing the intelligence of a woman to a five year old. Voting is not about intelligence. We already let any old idiot vote, there is nothing wrong with letting five year olds vote. Just like your average idiot, a five year old wouldn't vote.

[Hatman 🍁]

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Disagree

Gabu! You've become a Conservative! This is, you know unconstitutional?

Not exactly.

"Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State."

(Fourteenth Amendment)

You do know we're both Canadian right? We have a different constitution here, and this has been through the courts, and prisoners are allowed to vote.

[Hatman 🍁]

To get back on topic, the Canadian Charter of Rights does not, Chief Justice McLachlin's assertions to the contrary notwithstanding, guarantee prisoners the right to vote. The whole decision predicates itself on the concept that denying felons the right to vote is not a "reasonable limit" (per Section 1).

As Justice Charles Gonthier put it, "the disenfranchisement of serious criminal offenders serves to deliver a message to both the community and the offenders themselves that serious criminal activity will not be tolerated by the community." Disenfranchisement is indeed nothing but a punishment, and is a perfectly reasonable limit on the rights of felons.

Well, the bottom line is they can now vote, and that is because of how the constitution was interpreted. Just like gay marriage.

[Hatman 🍁]

Just like gay marriage.

Yes, of course, but on the other hand, the issue of whether the Charter required gay marriage was never decided by the Supreme Court.

I suppose you are aware of the court cases earlier in the year, so I am guessing you mean they technically didn't make the decision. However, they have ruled that sexual orientation is included as something that can be descriminated against.

[Hatman 🍁]

Well, Alberta wasn't the only one, but that's neither here nor there.

[Hatman 🍁]

Of couse, but we are talking about 5 year olds here, they need to be reminded. But I degress, these are the kinds of arguments people brought up during the woman's suffrage movement.

Just because an argument was incorrect when used against one movement (woman suffrage), it is not necessarily incorrect when used against another (child suffrage).

It comes from the same fear of a segment of the population voting. It's all poppycock in the end. 

[Hatman 🍁]

It comes from the same fear of a segment of the population voting. It's all poppycock in the end. 

It has nothing to do with fear. It has to do with responsibility and maturity.

Incidentally, do you believe that insane persons should be able to vote?

Yes, as they do now.

[Hatman 🍁]

It comes from the same fear of a segment of the population voting. It's all poppycock in the end. 

It has nothing to do with fear. It has to do with responsibility and maturity.

Incidentally, do you believe that insane persons should be able to vote?

Yes, as they do now.

I'm interested in your answer to this question: what do you believe the purpose of voting is?

Am I missing something? Are you looking for some philisophical answer?

[Hatman 🍁]

I doubt he does, because he doesn't think adults should either

Well he seems to believe that everyone, no matter their age, have every single fundamental right, and the right to bear arms is fundamental. If we're going to treat five year olds like adults we might as well be consistent.

Yes, I agree. The next time a five-year old steals candy from a store, let's charge him with larceny and put him in jail for a year.

Oh, I agree with that too. It is for this reason, I believe those under 18 should not be accountable to the law, because they are denied voting rights.

As for "the right to bear arms" that is not a fundemental right, it's just something Libertarians create as an excuse to keep guns to make up for their small penises

[Hatman 🍁]

As for "the right to bear arms" that is not a fundemental right, it's just something Libertarians create as an excuse to keep guns to make up for their small penises

It's not made up by modern Libertarians; it's been accepted for over three centuries. The English Bill of Rights also declares that there is a right to bear arms.

In the words of the famous jurist Sir William Blackstone:

"In vain would these rights be declared, ascertained, and protected by the dead letter of the laws, if the constitution had provided no other method to secure their actual enjoyment. It has therefore established certain other auxiliary subordinate rights of the subject, which serve principally as barriers to protect and maintain inviolate the three great and primary rights, of personal security, personal liberty, and private property...

The fifth and last auxiliary right of the subject, that I shall at present mention, is that of having arms for their defense [which] is indeed a public allowance, under due restrictions, of the natural right of resistance and self-preservation."

The U.S. is one of the few countries where this is a right. I hardly call that fundemental.

[Hatman 🍁]

The U.S. is one of the few countries where this is a right. I hardly call that fundemental.

If the U.S. was the only country that allowed free speech, would that make free speech not a fundamental right?

That's not the case though! Why? because freedom of speech is a fundemental right.  Gun ownership is not a fundemental human right, I'm sorry.

[Hatman 🍁]

The U.S. is one of the few countries where this is a right. I hardly call that fundemental.

If the U.S. was the only country that allowed free speech, would that make free speech not a fundamental right?

That's not the case though! Why? because freedom of speech is a fundemental right.  Gun ownership is not a fundemental human right, I'm sorry.

No, that's not why, nor is it relevant. If everyone else on the planet is doing something wrong that does not make it right if you do it too.

I know it's not about the rest of the world. It's just evidence that the rest of the world doesnt think it is a fundemental right. The rest of the world is more likely than the U.S. to be correct on things, however.

[Hatman 🍁]

You have the fundemental right to own a gun just as I have the fundemental right to own a computer they are both objects of possession. Ok, guns are used as self defence, but no other weapons seem to be fundemental rights? I dont have the fundemental right to own mace, or to own a bomb, or to own a knife. What makes firearms so special?